911SC vs 928S4 vs 944 Turbo, which to buy?
06-19-2001, 09:18 AM
#46
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As I'm sure your well aware, an optimist is considered the racing version of a small sailboat called a pram. We have both in the states. I hope you don't still sail opti's though 
06-19-2001, 12:15 PM
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LOL.. I think that you have not a clue as to what it will take to put a car on the track.. Let alone handle it... You can not buy driving knowledge.. Good luck..
06-19-2001, 12:43 PM
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Since you are in school,and have a limited income I suggest you abandon the notion of an exotic like the 911 or 928, and go for a plain jane 944. It was called the poor man's porsche for a reason.
Watch me start another war over that line.
The bottom line is the bottom line. I have an RX-7 and an Acura to use on the days the Porsche doesn't feel up to the task. And my 944 is a "mint" specimen.
Decide where you want to put your energies. From the outside most people can't tell the difference between a 944NA and a 944 turbo. I know that because I have an S2 parked next to my brothers NA every day.
Remember "KISS" keep it simple stupid, and you will be better off in the long run.
Good luck
Watch me start another war over that line.
The bottom line is the bottom line. I have an RX-7 and an Acura to use on the days the Porsche doesn't feel up to the task. And my 944 is a "mint" specimen.
Decide where you want to put your energies. From the outside most people can't tell the difference between a 944NA and a 944 turbo. I know that because I have an S2 parked next to my brothers NA every day.
Remember "KISS" keep it simple stupid, and you will be better off in the long run.
Good luck
06-19-2001, 01:04 PM
#49
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Ya know, I'm going to second you Tom.
Why not get a really great example of a 944na? then, if (HA! when!
) something breaks you have the money to fix it, things are least likely to break if well kept. And if all is going well with the car, you can then tweak more fun out of it!
No in the process of owning a "slower" (ahem) 944, you will refine your DRIVING skills, and when it comes to speed on a track or anything similar, it's what, 80% driver, 10% tires, and 10% car
?
Hey, my 86na has gotten me into plenty of trouble with the black and whites, and stop light races are for American Iron or rice boys.
the final thought:
Enjoy a 944na, learn to REALLY drive it, save some money, and in a few years buy what you would really want in the long run.
(i like to dream boxter or turbo s
)
Why not get a really great example of a 944na? then, if (HA! when!
) something breaks you have the money to fix it, things are least likely to break if well kept. And if all is going well with the car, you can then tweak more fun out of it!No in the process of owning a "slower" (ahem) 944, you will refine your DRIVING skills, and when it comes to speed on a track or anything similar, it's what, 80% driver, 10% tires, and 10% car
?Hey, my 86na has gotten me into plenty of trouble with the black and whites, and stop light races are for American Iron or rice boys.
the final thought:
Enjoy a 944na, learn to REALLY drive it, save some money, and in a few years buy what you would really want in the long run.
(i like to dream boxter or turbo s
)
06-19-2001, 01:20 PM
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R. Miller,
I went through the same dillema as you did trying to find a suitable car when I was in college about a year and a half ago (I am actually going back in the fall...I got real burnt out and took a semester off, but realized that I am not going to be able to pull down the green to support my habits with out a college degree). I had an rx-7 turbo II before, and I let a kid drive it and he dropped it into 2nd gear going 90+ and exploded the engine. Anyways, I had a part time job and was making about the same $250 week you get, and didn't have any real living expenses because I was living at home with my parents and commuting to school. I had a few thousand dollars saved up and decided I should start looking for a car and get a loan for the rest of the amount I needed. I was considering the following: RX-7 twin turbo, which was around $13000 for a low end but decent example, and a porsche 944 turbo (which I bought) which were in the $7000-$9000 range. I was interested in these two models in particular because their handling, performance, and overall vehicle dynamics are very similar and are a logical step from my last car, a 2nd gen rx-7 turbo II that also had a near perfect weight distribution, independant rear suspension, light weight, neutral handling, impressive acceleration, turbocharger, etc. I really really liked the RX-7 TT's (mainly looks...I think it is one of the prettiest cars ever made...but I also liked the performance ), but I had a couple of friends who had them and both had spent between $3500 and $8000 replacing engine(s) in the time that they had them, one car went through 2 engines in 80,000 miles and another 3 engines in 70,000 miles. Being that I was a (relatively) poor college student, and that these cars would need more maintainance than just swapping a new engine in every 20 or 30 thousand miles, and they were 5 grand more than the porsche, I figured the maintainance couldn't be nearly as bad as swapping engines every year or two, my choice was made simple.
After buying the porsche, I really wish I had gotten a PPI, because it needed $3500 in neglected maintainance the first 3 months I had it (live and learn...clutch, fork arm, throw out bearing, rear main seal, transmission seals, trans. fluid change, all exhaust gaskets, water pump, timing belt, balanceshaft belt, rollers, alternator, PS belt, left control arm, front main seal, cycling valve, some new vacuum lines, oil change, and a few other things I can't remember now). I probably would have been able to talk the guy out of another $2500 or so on the purchase price (of $7600) if I had shown him all that maintanance that was neglected.
Now, a year and a half after I bought the car, I have what I expect yearly maintainance to be around now that I am caught up from the neglect...I have the following $500 of parts in a box that need replacement as soon as I get her back from the body shop (tomorrow or thursday hopefully!): oil pan gasket, 2x motor mounts, sway bar bushings, turbo water pump, both accessory belts, rod bearings (precautionary measure, and since I have the oil pan off anyways, its not that hard too do), fuel filter, oil change, lower radiator hose, charge freon, and some other things I don't remember right now.
Just so you know, the only parts that I have/will replace(d) that were turbo related were the cycling valve ($90) and turbo water pump ($80). Everything else would have gone bad on an n/a in the same condition.
So I am all paid up now (the loan) on the car and would have had fun money to go and hook it up a bit, but this will no longer be the case as I have to quit my job and go back to college. So now I will just be paying for insurance, gas, and maintainance with a part time job while I am away at school.
What was my point? I don't remember, but I was just sharing my story with somebody who sounds like they were in the same exact situation as me a year and a half ago.
BTW, in retrospect an MR-2 turbo would have been a good choice too...I just forgot that they existed last time I was shopping for a car. You will find you need less maintanance with these than a porsche, but parts are still pricey. These are as fast of the box as a 944 turbo, too, but handling is a little unpredictable at times in the pre-93' models (you can retrofit the rear trailing arms off of a 93'+ model to fix the snap oversteer that plauges the early models). I like the looks of the MR-2's, too, but they look really strange with wide tires or 17"+ wheels for some reason. I don't know why, but they do look strange. Anyways, got work to do.
I went through the same dillema as you did trying to find a suitable car when I was in college about a year and a half ago (I am actually going back in the fall...I got real burnt out and took a semester off, but realized that I am not going to be able to pull down the green to support my habits with out a college degree). I had an rx-7 turbo II before, and I let a kid drive it and he dropped it into 2nd gear going 90+ and exploded the engine. Anyways, I had a part time job and was making about the same $250 week you get, and didn't have any real living expenses because I was living at home with my parents and commuting to school. I had a few thousand dollars saved up and decided I should start looking for a car and get a loan for the rest of the amount I needed. I was considering the following: RX-7 twin turbo, which was around $13000 for a low end but decent example, and a porsche 944 turbo (which I bought) which were in the $7000-$9000 range. I was interested in these two models in particular because their handling, performance, and overall vehicle dynamics are very similar and are a logical step from my last car, a 2nd gen rx-7 turbo II that also had a near perfect weight distribution, independant rear suspension, light weight, neutral handling, impressive acceleration, turbocharger, etc. I really really liked the RX-7 TT's (mainly looks...I think it is one of the prettiest cars ever made...but I also liked the performance
), but I had a couple of friends who had them and both had spent between $3500 and $8000 replacing engine(s) in the time that they had them, one car went through 2 engines in 80,000 miles and another 3 engines in 70,000 miles. Being that I was a (relatively) poor college student, and that these cars would need more maintainance than just swapping a new engine in every 20 or 30 thousand miles, and they were 5 grand more than the porsche, I figured the maintainance couldn't be nearly as bad as swapping engines every year or two, my choice was made simple. After buying the porsche, I really wish I had gotten a PPI, because it needed $3500 in neglected maintainance the first 3 months I had it (live and learn...clutch, fork arm, throw out bearing, rear main seal, transmission seals, trans. fluid change, all exhaust gaskets, water pump, timing belt, balanceshaft belt, rollers, alternator, PS belt, left control arm, front main seal, cycling valve, some new vacuum lines, oil change, and a few other things I can't remember now). I probably would have been able to talk the guy out of another $2500 or so on the purchase price (of $7600) if I had shown him all that maintanance that was neglected.
Now, a year and a half after I bought the car, I have what I expect yearly maintainance to be around now that I am caught up from the neglect...I have the following $500 of parts in a box that need replacement as soon as I get her back from the body shop (tomorrow or thursday hopefully!): oil pan gasket, 2x motor mounts, sway bar bushings, turbo water pump, both accessory belts, rod bearings (precautionary measure, and since I have the oil pan off anyways, its not that hard too do), fuel filter, oil change, lower radiator hose, charge freon, and some other things I don't remember right now.
Just so you know, the only parts that I have/will replace(d) that were turbo related were the cycling valve ($90) and turbo water pump ($80). Everything else would have gone bad on an n/a in the same condition.
So I am all paid up now (the loan) on the car and would have had fun money to go and hook it up a bit, but this will no longer be the case as I have to quit my job and go back to college. So now I will just be paying for insurance, gas, and maintainance with a part time job while I am away at school.
What was my point? I don't remember, but I was just sharing my story with somebody who sounds like they were in the same exact situation as me a year and a half ago.
BTW, in retrospect an MR-2 turbo would have been a good choice too...I just forgot that they existed last time I was shopping for a car. You will find you need less maintanance with these than a porsche, but parts are still pricey. These are as fast of the box as a 944 turbo, too, but handling is a little unpredictable at times in the pre-93' models (you can retrofit the rear trailing arms off of a 93'+ model to fix the snap oversteer that plauges the early models). I like the looks of the MR-2's, too, but they look really strange with wide tires or 17"+ wheels for some reason. I don't know why, but they do look strange. Anyways, got work to do.
06-19-2001, 02:21 PM
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ya but on a laser you don't get wet when the boat tips over when your overpowered, you just stand on the rudder, flip right back and hop on, and show off to all the poor catmerans that have there masts stuck in the sand at the bottom!!! Thats the funnest part!!
06-19-2001, 04:21 PM
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Oh. I had forgotten! I spent the first 3 years of my like in British Hong Kong, sailing Hoby Cats. I think my parents had a 16'er But I was 2-3 years old. What do I know. We have pictures. But it got me comfortable with water.
06-19-2001, 04:57 PM
#53
Drifting
Get the 911.
Everybody wants one, at some point in their life. Go ahead and do it.
If you get tired of it, get the 951.
If you do it in reverse, you may never get around to the 911
Later,
Everybody wants one, at some point in their life. Go ahead and do it.
If you get tired of it, get the 951.
If you do it in reverse, you may never get around to the 911
Later,
06-19-2001, 05:49 PM
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billybones...i believe you need to learn proper english before you try to criticize my driving that you've no clue about. In any event i like the last post for advice the best As if a omen from God himself, today I recieved my GT Racing catalog (porsche body parts), hmm....a sign perhaps? In any event I fear that if I buy a N/A I will spend alot of money fixing it (nearly the same from what people say as on a turbo) to spec then in a year I'll have good experience on it sell it and get a 951 only to spend more money fixing that up to spec...am I right? I also strongly disagree that stoplight races are for old skool and imports. I've had a '70 gto, '89 cavalier (shudder) and now my '93 mx-6 (v6) and all have experienced stoplight races as will my next car until i run out of money for tires. it's been in every generation of cars....porsches are not above it. I've seen many of 996's have to prove their worth to vipers around here... Thanks for the bit on the MR2 Turbo, I'll look into that....
Until August, still deciding/contemplating.
As if a omen from God himself, today I recieved my GT Racing catalog (porsche body parts), hmm....a sign perhaps? In any event I fear that if I buy a N/A I will spend alot of money fixing it (nearly the same from what people say as on a turbo) to spec then in a year I'll have good experience on it sell it and get a 951 only to spend more money fixing that up to spec...am I right? I also strongly disagree that stoplight races are for old skool and imports. I've had a '70 gto, '89 cavalier (shudder) and now my '93 mx-6 (v6) and all have experienced stoplight races as will my next car until i run out of money for tires. it's been in every generation of cars....porsches are not above it. I've seen many of 996's have to prove their worth to vipers around here... Thanks for the bit on the MR2 Turbo, I'll look into that....Until August, still deciding/contemplating.
06-19-2001, 06:10 PM
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Very. There were 6 in the US that I know of. Some of them are probably wreched by now. And no one is selling.
So, you have to find one in europe. But I have seen them sell for as little as 8K US (badly abused). If you can find one, it will be in the back of excellence.
So, you have to find one in europe. But I have seen them sell for as little as 8K US (badly abused). If you can find one, it will be in the back of excellence.
06-19-2001, 08:44 PM
#58
Drifting
ok, my last post here, as I think "what should I buy" threads are silly...
It sounds like you want a semi-practical car that you can put money into with maximum HP results. Get the 951. You can have a 996TT whipping 951 for a total of $25,000, if not less. It is the BEST all around platform (second to the AWD Talon-things) for performance modifications that I have ever seen. VERY versatile. AND economically feasible, for its potential.
I, too, have always ignored the "get a beginner car" advice. Same with motorcycles. Any fool with a modicum of self-control can keep from killing himself w/HP. Buying something you KNOW you will grow out of is silly.
Speaking of silly, it is silly for you NOT to go out and drive all 3 and figure out what YOU think.
Later Skater,
It sounds like you want a semi-practical car that you can put money into with maximum HP results. Get the 951. You can have a 996TT whipping 951 for a total of $25,000, if not less. It is the BEST all around platform (second to the AWD Talon-things) for performance modifications that I have ever seen. VERY versatile. AND economically feasible, for its potential.
I, too, have always ignored the "get a beginner car" advice. Same with motorcycles. Any fool with a modicum of self-control can keep from killing himself w/HP. Buying something you KNOW you will grow out of is silly.
Speaking of silly, it is silly for you NOT to go out and drive all 3 and figure out what YOU think.
Later Skater,
06-19-2001, 11:35 PM
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I agree! I hadn't realized those ugly 924's were so rare! You'd think they'd produce more of a good thing? I don't think a 'what to buy' thread is that silly. I've never owned a porsche and many people who've had both a 944 and 911 can provide great advice. As long as it's not too biased
06-20-2001, 12:28 AM
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Since it seems you are pretty much set on buying a Porsche, the advice of driving examples of each is sound. Just try to drive good ones, ignore the asking prices since you probably won't be buying it anyway. Another piece of advice, attend a local PCA meeting and get to know the members, and ask thier advice as well. They might be able to put you onto a good car, with a known history and records. They will also have connections with the best repair shops around. Go to the shops, talk to the wrenches and ask thier opinions (except on 928s which most of them dislike and don't understand.)
The key here is to do thorough research on each model, then narrow it down to several cars of the chosen model and decide. This may take months, but it is time well spent to avoid a costly mistake. Besides, it's fun driving a bunch of different Porsches. Good hunting, I had a blast finding my 951.
The key here is to do thorough research on each model, then narrow it down to several cars of the chosen model and decide. This may take months, but it is time well spent to avoid a costly mistake. Besides, it's fun driving a bunch of different Porsches. Good hunting, I had a blast finding my 951.