Dan87951

What kind of chips do you NA guys use? Has anyone heard of a company called UltraMax? They have a Stage 2 chip that looks better than Europroducts. They claim 16-18HP increase as well as torque. Anyways what do you guys use for 85.5-87 cars?

Thanks
Dan

Ganja Porsche

I'm just curious if that 16-18HP is actually noticeable until past 6500 or something strange. I'd look more deeply into that claim... Cuz if that's true, I'm hitting me one up.

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

I dont think that kind of hp gain is really possible with a chip in an n/a (perhaps in an S2 though),unless a lot of power down low is traded for power in unusable rpms (and it still wouldnt be that high). The turbo can easily see that hp gain with a simple chip.
Also, the factory pretty much milked the ECU for all it had (in practical applications) for the n/a. Come to think of it, all na's except the S2 (and S to a minimal extent) cant gain appreciable hp from simple bolt ons. Best to modify the suspension and brakes and lighten the car if you want it to perform better.

Skip

I'll only answer for the one I use... Autothority. The gain in HP from 3k to redline IS NOT a result of stealing it from the low-end. It IS a result of timing advance and fuel mapping changes and the use of higher octane gas (super91/92, not race-gas or anything exotic). The claim is 18HP at around 5500RPM... remember, this is BHP or flywheel HP, not RWHP (reduce by ~20% for that).

In my case, I used an MSD ignition to increase power below 3k, and the Autothority chip for above 3k. So far, so good... I was very impressed. YMMV

Skip

deni durrell

i guess a computer upgrade would be a plus for our early cars.. there was some guy who was selling an add-on card (or a daughterboard?) a while ago for adding chips, EPROMs, etc.. i have the link somewhere. nonetheless, thanks for the excellent info skip.

Dan87951

Thanks for the info has a friend who was thinking about a chip upgrade. I will reley the information.

Dan

Skip

FR Wilk - http://members.tripod.com/944dme/

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

Hey Skipmeister, is your chip for the n/a 8v? It actually works? Not that I doubt your information (sacriledge!!) but I have never heard anything positive about chips. As far as the MSD ign., is it also good? Do these products complement eachother or can power be had seperately? If not, how much moola are we talkin? Thanks.

Dave

With the europroducts chip I didn't lose anything down low, and I may have picked up a few high RPM ponies. It is not a ten percent increase, maybe 2 or 3 percent. This chip evidently relies on ignition advance, as my car needs 93 octane to run well, 91 isn't enough. I got a great deal on it, but if I were doing it again I'd get the Autothority chip (owners rave about their chips more than I do).

Skip

Yes, and yes. I held off on the chip the longest of all mods for the reasons of price and the seemingly negative hype behind it. I can't objectively say too much about Autothority vs. any other brand... just that they are undoubtedly the most respected and experienced in the US market when it comes to Porsche modifications. They never stop either... evidenced by the many revisions of the Turbo chip. If there is more power to attain from a chip upgrade, they'd have thought of it.

The difference was very noticeable to me, but the reason may be different for others. I'm an autocrosser switching to club race soon, and need every little HP I can get... the competition at the top of autocross regularly comes down to tenths of a second. The additional claimed 18HP (~14 to the wheels) peaking at ~5500rpm is a night-n-day difference on a high-reving 60 second lap. The raised rev limit to 7k allows me to stay in second up to ~62mph.

Autothority was the first to admit that the only thing gained from their chip below 3k is maybe a MPG or two. For those serious about extracting every last drop, Autothority will consult with you on the mods you have, then custom burn a chip to take advantage of that (especially important for cam swaps or lightened flywheels).

Not unusual... either due to the price or some irresponsible magazine reporting, the na chips get a bad rap because they just don't (and can't) deliver huge boosts in power. The fact that you get more HP-per-buck from a chipped Turbo is VERY TRUE, but sometimes an unfortunate twist. More boost = More power... and the chip is needed to modify the fuel tables so the boost is useful and doesn't simply starve the engine in open-loop. In the na cars, there's nothing to boost but fuel quality and ignition advance... so that's what they do. Introduce more air and expell more exhaust and you can up the fuel a bit more, but this is never significant and will sometimes open the door to a loss in low-end power... this is why a custom map may be needed by some. I am using the off-the-shelf version for now, but may have to swap eventually.

BTW, here's a link to the Tech-Session about replacing the chip: APE Chip Install

You must have missed the "MSD... Snake Oil, Yummy!" thread from a ways back? Yes, and yes. The MSD is a great investment, and they do complement eachother. The reasons are not too involved, but require some understanding of what each does. I'll just touch on it: The MSD ignition provides multiple spark below a certain RPM (~3k) due to physics. After that, it produces a stonger and longer spark (~40kv, ~20deg) which is good, but less effective than the multiple spark capacitive discharge as before. The chip can only control the fuel tables for heavy acceleration and WOT (referred to as "open-loop", or when the O2 sensor output is not used to control fuel quantity/injector cycle), and this only happens above certain RPM's... read: where the MSD is not as effective. Clear as mud, right? Another advantage to the MSD is a much smoother idle and quicker throttle response.

BTW2, Here's a link to the Tech-Session about my MSD install: MSD Installation

MSD is ~$150, Coil is ~$40, Chip is ~$300. That said, I spent a bunch of time and money prior to these mods to be sure the car was ready for it.... and, I count the effectiveness of mods in seconds and sometimes tenths of seconds in a real world

Good Luck!

Dave

Skip's understatement;
I don't know about the top, but at my end of the spectrum I came in second once by .051 sec.

I figure that any time I can buy HP for under $50-$75 each, it's worth it. If I were looking for 100 of them, the 8v NA would have to go, but another 10-20 would be nice .

Dave, (Sorry no Jim-ism due to blow to the head)

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

wow, MSD here I come! As far as the chip goes, if anyone out there has an autothority chip for sale, I'm all ears. The budget is gettin real skinny.

Longtime76

Skip and others:
Could these two modifications provide similar results in my 944S? I have been considering getting a chip for a while, but until this post (mainly Skip's info) all I had heard was that they didn't do anything. The MSD and Autothority definitely sound like a reasonable investment.

rplencne

We're considering FR Wilk's part. According to his web page, he also works the timing and fuel map for improved performance. I checked with him on HP #'s, but wasn't able to give any. I believe his prices are much more competative than the $300 Authority parts. He helped us out with our early '85 NA (shudder problem), so I thinke we're going to give his performance chip a shot.

-Bob P.

rfuerst

I installed a Autothority chip in my 1987-944S about 9 months ago and I am happy with the results,it really pulls strong.I have been running 92-93 octane fuel and no problems to date.If I had to do it all over again I would and I do not think I would go with any other brand other than Autothority.My 2 cents.