BBS 9x16 in the...front?
02-14-2002, 05:57 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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BBS 9x16 in the...front?
Okay, I have a late offset 944.
I also have a set of 9x16 and 10x16 BBS RS 3-piece wheels for late offset Porsche (ET49 front and rear - 49mm offset).
These wheels are in great shape, are super light, and look just fabulous on the 944. They take a 225/50 in the front and 245/45 in the back. Not a super wide tire fittment for these cars, but when they are stretched out on the BBS rims, the resulting wheel is darn wide (I have the TUV papers for the wheels and these are the recommended tire sizes). Basically, the bead is directly below the edge of the tread, eliminating almost all sidewall curvature or "bulge" so to speak.
I've test fit them to the car, and there's no problem just having the car sit there on the wheels - nothing rubs when stationary. And in the rear, there's plenty of room everywhere so using the 10x16 on the rear isn't an issue. But the front - yikes! On the inside, the rim is about 1cm from the spring coil. On the outside, the wheel is exactly flush with the fender. If you walked up to the car with a yardstick held perfectly vertically, it would touch the wheel and fender at exactly the same time.
So this is just a long winded way of asking if anyone has experience with a fittment like this on the front. I'm concerned that the 9" rim is going to rub under some combination of cornering or suspension compression.
With the car sitting there, I can bounce it with no problems, and turn the wheels lock to lock with no problems. But in real world driving...I dunno. Advice?
Bryan
I also have a set of 9x16 and 10x16 BBS RS 3-piece wheels for late offset Porsche (ET49 front and rear - 49mm offset).
These wheels are in great shape, are super light, and look just fabulous on the 944. They take a 225/50 in the front and 245/45 in the back. Not a super wide tire fittment for these cars, but when they are stretched out on the BBS rims, the resulting wheel is darn wide (I have the TUV papers for the wheels and these are the recommended tire sizes). Basically, the bead is directly below the edge of the tread, eliminating almost all sidewall curvature or "bulge" so to speak.
I've test fit them to the car, and there's no problem just having the car sit there on the wheels - nothing rubs when stationary. And in the rear, there's plenty of room everywhere so using the 10x16 on the rear isn't an issue. But the front - yikes! On the inside, the rim is about 1cm from the spring coil. On the outside, the wheel is exactly flush with the fender. If you walked up to the car with a yardstick held perfectly vertically, it would touch the wheel and fender at exactly the same time.
So this is just a long winded way of asking if anyone has experience with a fittment like this on the front. I'm concerned that the 9" rim is going to rub under some combination of cornering or suspension compression.
With the car sitting there, I can bounce it with no problems, and turn the wheels lock to lock with no problems. But in real world driving...I dunno. Advice?
Bryan
02-14-2002, 06:58 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Ok here are the only pics I have right now. The car has since been put back together - air dam, bumpers, mirror, etc. This was right after I got the engine back together and pulled it out of the garage. Again, it was serious work-in-progress at the time. It's filthy too which helps a lot.
But it does show the wheels relatively clearly. Probably not enough to get an answer about rubbing since I've stood next to the car and looked at the wheels with my face 12" away and couldn't draw a conclusion.
But it does show the wheels relatively clearly. Probably not enough to get an answer about rubbing since I've stood next to the car and looked at the wheels with my face 12" away and couldn't draw a conclusion.
02-14-2002, 08:12 PM
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Those are more likely 8" in front and 9" in back if those are 225 and 245 tires. I don't see a 225 looking remotely normal on a 9" wheel. Nevertheless, they look like they fit. Best of luck.
BTW - nice sunroof delete...that's a pretty rare option!
BTW - nice sunroof delete...that's a pretty rare option!
02-15-2002, 11:18 AM
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Burning Brakes
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The wheels are definitely 9x16 and 10x16. And the tires are definitely 225/50 and 245/45. The tire sidewall is basically vertical with almost no bulge to it.
Perhaps BBS measures their wheels differently? Total width versus bead-to-bead or something?
Hey, I could actually call BBS of America and read them the part numbers and ask them what the app is. I'm sure they would enjoy the break from discussing 21" SUV fittments.
No sunroof is only one of the many neat things about this particular car.
Bryan
Perhaps BBS measures their wheels differently? Total width versus bead-to-bead or something?
Hey, I could actually call BBS of America and read them the part numbers and ask them what the app is. I'm sure they would enjoy the break from discussing 21" SUV fittments.
No sunroof is only one of the many neat things about this particular car.
Bryan
02-15-2002, 01:03 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
BBS measures rims the way everyone else does. If you have 9" in the front that is really too wide for such a narrow tire. Looking at a Bridgestone chart for a RE730, they want that tire on a 6.0 to 8.0 inch rim with 7.0" being perfect. You can read up on what happens when you are stretching the tire out at the bead, but this is no secret performance improvement trick.
Anyway, if the outer edge lines up outside fender sheet metal and tire, you should be OK. Given all the extra room you have in those pictures I think it will be tough to hit the fender unless you crank the wheel over and really put some heavy loading forces on. You really have a lot of headroom with those tires on your car, much more than I do. Must be some sort of camera trick or else a NA rides much higher than a 951.
I didn't think those wheels were all that light weight. I never thought to weigh my RSes when they were bare but BBS told me my 17x8 were 21#s and the 17x9.5 were 23#.
Anyway, if the outer edge lines up outside fender sheet metal and tire, you should be OK. Given all the extra room you have in those pictures I think it will be tough to hit the fender unless you crank the wheel over and really put some heavy loading forces on. You really have a lot of headroom with those tires on your car, much more than I do. Must be some sort of camera trick or else a NA rides much higher than a 951.
I didn't think those wheels were all that light weight. I never thought to weigh my RSes when they were bare but BBS told me my 17x8 were 21#s and the 17x9.5 were 23#.
02-15-2002, 01:43 PM
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Burning Brakes
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The car is up on it's suspension because I had just lowered it off jackstands and pulled it forward about 15 feet out of the garage. So it hadn't really settled down on the suspension. It only sits a little lower though.
The width does seem nuts to me too, but the TUV paperwork lists this tire size, and even the tire manufacturers who BBS recommends. I'm not sure how the TUV approval process works, but they are TUV approved for the 225/50 and 245/45 tires, and only that size I believe. This is '80s tech, though. Did they figure out later that fitting tires like this is a bad thing? I dunno. Is there something about modern tires that makes them unsuitable for this app? I dunno. By the looks of the tires, though, somebody had some fun on them and didn't seem to suffer any ill effects.
I got these wheels on the cheap - about what a set of bare turbo phone dials would cost, and they had a set of Pilots on them (totally worn out). So I'm not megabucks into them. Looking at old R&T magazines, these rims in this size would have been about $700 each new. So what was the advantage? Strength? I think they bend pretty easy. Easy care? Hah! Lightness? I though that was the big advantage and the reason people bought them for big $$$$ in the '80s.
If you have 17" RS's for Porsche, you have some really rare wheels. They only made them the last couple years those wheels were made, and they were even MORE expensive than the 16".
Bryan
The width does seem nuts to me too, but the TUV paperwork lists this tire size, and even the tire manufacturers who BBS recommends. I'm not sure how the TUV approval process works, but they are TUV approved for the 225/50 and 245/45 tires, and only that size I believe. This is '80s tech, though. Did they figure out later that fitting tires like this is a bad thing? I dunno. Is there something about modern tires that makes them unsuitable for this app? I dunno. By the looks of the tires, though, somebody had some fun on them and didn't seem to suffer any ill effects.
I got these wheels on the cheap - about what a set of bare turbo phone dials would cost, and they had a set of Pilots on them (totally worn out). So I'm not megabucks into them. Looking at old R&T magazines, these rims in this size would have been about $700 each new. So what was the advantage? Strength? I think they bend pretty easy. Easy care? Hah! Lightness? I though that was the big advantage and the reason people bought them for big $$$$ in the '80s.
If you have 17" RS's for Porsche, you have some really rare wheels. They only made them the last couple years those wheels were made, and they were even MORE expensive than the 16".
Bryan
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02-15-2002, 02:46 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
I thought they might be rare, for all the good that would do you if you wanted to sell them. We have the unique 5x130mm bolt pattern so the market is pretty small.
They cost me $560 a copy back in '91, new, from some dodgey mail order outfit that sent them without valve stems.
You are wrong on strength. They are pretty strong. I smacked a monster pothole with 255/40 s on and destroyed the tire. Rim was fine except for a fine slight hazing of the clear paint coating if you look at it right.
They cost me $560 a copy back in '91, new, from some dodgey mail order outfit that sent them without valve stems.
You are wrong on strength. They are pretty strong. I smacked a monster pothole with 255/40 s on and destroyed the tire. Rim was fine except for a fine slight hazing of the clear paint coating if you look at it right.
02-15-2002, 03:22 PM
#9
Race Director
[quote]The wheels are definitely 9x16 and 10x16.<hr></blockquote>How do you know that? The tires look like they fit fine. If you don't like those wheels, I'll take them
02-15-2002, 04:18 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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IceShark - What color are your wheels? They were available in gold, silver, and platinum (all with a machined rim of course). You got a good deal on them, btw. An ad in R&T from '91 has the 17" starting at $699 each.
Danno - my wheels are stamped under the centercaps with 9J X 16 H2 ET 49 and 10J X 16 H2 ET 49. I love these wheels - I was just concerned about them rubbing. And now perhaps about the bizzare shape the tires are stretched into on them.
Bryan
Danno - my wheels are stamped under the centercaps with 9J X 16 H2 ET 49 and 10J X 16 H2 ET 49. I love these wheels - I was just concerned about them rubbing. And now perhaps about the bizzare shape the tires are stretched into on them.
Bryan
02-15-2002, 05:52 PM
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Burning Brakes
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IceShark -
The platinum centers are more of a grey color, kinda like when your wheels are covered with brake dust. Kinda like the links in the leftmost frame of this web page ("924/944/951/968"). I saw some for sale on Ebay once, for some other car. Interesting look. Definitely better than gold, and probably highly dependent on the right car color.
What are the dimensions of your wheels exactly? Including offset. 17" in silver has got to be the ultimate BBS RS in my opinion. Are the wheels in good shape? See, I've got this 928S...and GTS brakes require 17" wheels...just thinking here...keeping my options open...
Any pics, perchance?
Bryan
The platinum centers are more of a grey color, kinda like when your wheels are covered with brake dust. Kinda like the links in the leftmost frame of this web page ("924/944/951/968"). I saw some for sale on Ebay once, for some other car. Interesting look. Definitely better than gold, and probably highly dependent on the right car color.
What are the dimensions of your wheels exactly? Including offset. 17" in silver has got to be the ultimate BBS RS in my opinion. Are the wheels in good shape? See, I've got this 928S...and GTS brakes require 17" wheels...just thinking here...keeping my options open...
Any pics, perchance?
Bryan
02-15-2002, 07:40 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
Bryan, Ok, they are definately silver.
I agree the gold ones looked like PimpMobile wheels. I don't know what they were thinking when they sprayed those.
My wheels are in about perfect shape outside of this slight crazing under the clear coat that I mentioned when a rear wheel smacked a pothole hard. So hard it broke the tire and knocked it off the bead and deflated. This was 4 years ago and I was able to re-inflate the tire with the Porsche air compressor to get me home. But I had wheel guys look at the rim and they said it was OK and why they loved BBS RS wheels, on the "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" theory. I don't think the other light weight wheels could take a smack like that. Some guys with other brand wheels are taking much lighter smacks and not deflating the tire but busting chunks of the rim edge off.
And since that goofball Craig is now on wheel cleaners, they have only been washed with car paint finish type soap. The finish is pretty tough and as long as you wash regularly the brake dust comes off easy. Is a pain in the *** though running a cloth over your finger into all them "spoke" openings.
Anyway, mine are 17x8 RS257 49.0mm offset and 17x9.5 RS258 52.0mm. I've had these since '91 and I don't think I will be selling them anytime soon. They are the only wheel I have had *normal* people come up out of the blue and complement me, one woman even had a follow-up question: What kind of car is that?
Send me a way to get ahold of you years in the future and I will stick it in my wheel/tire documents and let you know if things change.
I agree the gold ones looked like PimpMobile wheels. I don't know what they were thinking when they sprayed those.
My wheels are in about perfect shape outside of this slight crazing under the clear coat that I mentioned when a rear wheel smacked a pothole hard. So hard it broke the tire and knocked it off the bead and deflated. This was 4 years ago and I was able to re-inflate the tire with the Porsche air compressor to get me home. But I had wheel guys look at the rim and they said it was OK and why they loved BBS RS wheels, on the "takes a licking and keeps on ticking" theory. I don't think the other light weight wheels could take a smack like that. Some guys with other brand wheels are taking much lighter smacks and not deflating the tire but busting chunks of the rim edge off.
And since that goofball Craig is now on wheel cleaners, they have only been washed with car paint finish type soap. The finish is pretty tough and as long as you wash regularly the brake dust comes off easy. Is a pain in the *** though running a cloth over your finger into all them "spoke" openings.
Anyway, mine are 17x8 RS257 49.0mm offset and 17x9.5 RS258 52.0mm. I've had these since '91 and I don't think I will be selling them anytime soon. They are the only wheel I have had *normal* people come up out of the blue and complement me, one woman even had a follow-up question: What kind of car is that?
Send me a way to get ahold of you years in the future and I will stick it in my wheel/tire documents and let you know if things change.
02-15-2002, 09:44 PM
#14
Race Director
[quote]I was just concerned about them rubbing. And now perhaps about the bizzare shape the tires are stretched into on them.<hr></blockquote>Na, don't worry about them rubbing too much. You'll just have reduced steering under cornering when they do rub, but you'd have to be driving pretty hard to notice that. In the rear, the part that will rub, is quite odd. It's the lower-front of the fender, straight ahead of the tire, not the tops like you would think. So just keep you ears open and you'll be fine.
Also if you watch the upper levels of SCCA racing, SpeedvisionGT, ALMS, TransAm and other stock-based racing, you'll see that they use rims that are as wide as the tires. That's to keep the sideways flopping of the sidewalls to a minimum when you transition into a turn. Also all slicks are sized based on identical widths: a 25x10x16" slick goes on 10" wide rim, a 25x12x16" slick goes on a 12" rim, etc.
Also if you watch the upper levels of SCCA racing, SpeedvisionGT, ALMS, TransAm and other stock-based racing, you'll see that they use rims that are as wide as the tires. That's to keep the sideways flopping of the sidewalls to a minimum when you transition into a turn. Also all slicks are sized based on identical widths: a 25x10x16" slick goes on 10" wide rim, a 25x12x16" slick goes on a 12" rim, etc.
