Porsche = Only Gasoline?
09-09-2001, 05:16 AM
#4
Three Wheelin'
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anyone care to comment on why diesel is not widely accepted here like it is in europe?
The price of diesel here (in the country of Calif.) has been a hair cheaper than unleaded, but not by much. there are obvious differences in the price of 'benzene'(i use Super) here in SF, and it's around $2.09/2.11/2.15 a gallon + there's always the availabilty factor...
not to go too OT, but competition-wise, bmw raced their e36 320d turbo cars in the nineties and were quite successful. they had 4 cyl., 1.950l, 225 hp (300 lb-ft torque) turbo cars that had excellent fuel consumption and scored a 1st place at a Nurburgring 24 hr. race in 1998...
my personal opinion: i would buy a diesel in a heartbeat, but as a caveat, it would *definitely* have to be a turbocharged "sport model" (along the lines of a e46 330xd). in a porsche... maybe a cayenne (?).. i dunno.
The price of diesel here (in the country of Calif.) has been a hair cheaper than unleaded, but not by much. there are obvious differences in the price of 'benzene'(i use Super) here in SF, and it's around $2.09/2.11/2.15 a gallon + there's always the availabilty factor...
not to go too OT, but competition-wise, bmw raced their e36 320d turbo cars in the nineties and were quite successful. they had 4 cyl., 1.950l, 225 hp (300 lb-ft torque) turbo cars that had excellent fuel consumption and scored a 1st place at a Nurburgring 24 hr. race in 1998...
my personal opinion: i would buy a diesel in a heartbeat, but as a caveat, it would *definitely* have to be a turbocharged "sport model" (along the lines of a e46 330xd). in a porsche... maybe a cayenne (?).. i dunno.
09-09-2001, 12:33 PM
#7
Race Car
Old habits die hard. In the US we are used to keeping things as they "belong". ie diesel trucks, and gas powered sports cars. Any manufacturer willing to challenge these norms, is taking a huge risk unless the product is clearly superior. Additionally, anyone with a large pick-up can tell you that the effiency and longevity of a diesel doesn't come cheap. The cost of the diesel option on these trucks runs 20-25% of what you pay for the vehicle itself.
OT-Diesels are showing up in offshore racing the last couple years.
OT-Diesels are showing up in offshore racing the last couple years.
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09-09-2001, 12:59 PM
#8
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I have a VW New Beetle TDI, plus I have owned a Deezel Rabbit (now that rattled.) the TDI technology is phenomenal. Period. But not for sports cars. The only complaint about my New Beetle TDI is that I just can't seem to get my average city milage over 47 mpg....it hovers around 45. But in my Porsche, its gas all the way. TDIs run out of steam at low revs. The Vdub is would out at 4500 rpm.
09-09-2001, 01:13 PM
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Craig... no diesel cars, AFAIK. but the Porsche "Junior" tractor (late 40's-early 50's?) was a diesel. Air-cooled, I think.
Dave951M... old urban legends have a life all their own.
Porsche made ~90 pre-production units for what would become the Tiger I. But Henschel's design won, tho' it appears to use the Porsche turret design. The Porsche chassis were not accepted as tanks, but were converted into "Ferdinand" tank destroyers (fixed gun box instead of turret). Not a Tiger, and technically not a tank.
Porsche also made 50 turrets for the Tiger II, and a modified suspension for the Jagdtiger.
Their only complete tank was the late-war Maus, one built, one incomplete.
BTW, none of the above were diesel-powered.
Jim, 'way off-topic here...
Dave951M... old urban legends have a life all their own.
Porsche made ~90 pre-production units for what would become the Tiger I. But Henschel's design won, tho' it appears to use the Porsche turret design. The Porsche chassis were not accepted as tanks, but were converted into "Ferdinand" tank destroyers (fixed gun box instead of turret). Not a Tiger, and technically not a tank.
Porsche also made 50 turrets for the Tiger II, and a modified suspension for the Jagdtiger.
Their only complete tank was the late-war Maus, one built, one incomplete.
BTW, none of the above were diesel-powered.
Jim, 'way off-topic here...
09-09-2001, 01:23 PM
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Jim-
Not into urban legends- just brevity. To go through the Tiger series development could fill hundreds of pages with all the variations and minutae. BTW- my brother and friends are making 1/6 to 1/4 scale armor models (rc of course) T-34 and the Tiger I are the first candidates with the Panther and Jagdpanzer V the next. As such, I have been subjected to the blueprints of each ad nauseum. Now we are REALLY off topic.
Not into urban legends- just brevity. To go through the Tiger series development could fill hundreds of pages with all the variations and minutae. BTW- my brother and friends are making 1/6 to 1/4 scale armor models (rc of course) T-34 and the Tiger I are the first candidates with the Panther and Jagdpanzer V the next. As such, I have been subjected to the blueprints of each ad nauseum. Now we are REALLY off topic.
09-09-2001, 04:10 PM
#11
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One thing that's always bothered me... I know Porsche made military vehicles for the German ARmy during WWII. Or at least designed them. Does anybody know if Porsche used slave labor during the war? I'm hoping not, but...
Thaddeus
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09-09-2001, 04:25 PM
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thad.: Of course many compnaies did, who wouldn't have in time of war?! I don't know about Porsche, but there were others (VW, Siemens, Krup, Daimler, etc.).... and the lawsuits go on and on.. i guess they are waiting for all the claimants to die off.
link: http://www.vho.org/News/GB/SRN26-28_98.html#7
link: http://www.vho.org/News/GB/SRN26-28_98.html#7
09-09-2001, 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Dave:
<STRONG>Old habits die hard. In the US we are used to keeping things as they "belong". ie diesel trucks, and gas powered sports cars. Any manufacturer willing to challenge these norms, is taking a huge risk unless the product is clearly superior. Additionally, anyone with a large pick-up can tell you that the effiency and longevity of a diesel doesn't come cheap. The cost of the diesel option on these trucks runs 20-25% of what you pay for the vehicle itself.
OT-Diesels are showing up in offshore racing the last couple years.</STRONG>
<STRONG>Old habits die hard. In the US we are used to keeping things as they "belong". ie diesel trucks, and gas powered sports cars. Any manufacturer willing to challenge these norms, is taking a huge risk unless the product is clearly superior. Additionally, anyone with a large pick-up can tell you that the effiency and longevity of a diesel doesn't come cheap. The cost of the diesel option on these trucks runs 20-25% of what you pay for the vehicle itself.
OT-Diesels are showing up in offshore racing the last couple years.</STRONG>
09-10-2001, 12:34 PM
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The Cummins 5.9L diesel option in my 2000 Dodge 2500 pick-up was about $4300 MORE than getting the stock 5.9L gasonline V8. This is not a minor cost upgrade, but I think it's money well-spent.
Greg
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09-11-2001, 07:55 AM
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originally posted by jim968
Craig... no diesel cars, AFAIK. but the Porsche "Junior" tractor (late 40's-early 50's?) was a diesel. Air-cooled, I think.
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Yes they were, diesel & air cooled, two types, one and two cylinders IIRC
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originally posted by black
Also some of the vehicles for the German army may have been Diesal.
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Most of the tactical vehicles in most european armies are using Diesel.
(Reducing of logistics problems)
Porshes are not considered tactical vehicles (in the military sense).
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paulk
I have a VW New Beetle TDI, plus I have owned a Deezel Rabbit (now that rattled.) the TDI technology is phenomenal. Period. But not for sports cars.
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Try the TDI where the lettering is red for all three.
Small sized high speed turbo, boost almost as from idle RPM onwards, red line at 6500 RPM level, power and torque curve in low end as if a high torque (US V8 like) engine, in high end as if an supercharged petol engine, fuel consumption about 25% less than the petrol equivalent.
All of this with a Diesel.
These monsters allow easy tuning as well.
Sometimes even without violating warranty.
I think this can be called progress.
Technology has been introduced only a few years ago.
Hans
originally posted by jim968
Craig... no diesel cars, AFAIK. but the Porsche "Junior" tractor (late 40's-early 50's?) was a diesel. Air-cooled, I think.
-----
Yes they were, diesel & air cooled, two types, one and two cylinders IIRC
-----
originally posted by black
Also some of the vehicles for the German army may have been Diesal.
-------
Most of the tactical vehicles in most european armies are using Diesel.
(Reducing of logistics problems)
Porshes are not considered tactical vehicles (in the military sense).
-----
paulk
I have a VW New Beetle TDI, plus I have owned a Deezel Rabbit (now that rattled.) the TDI technology is phenomenal. Period. But not for sports cars.
------
Try the TDI where the lettering is red for all three.
Small sized high speed turbo, boost almost as from idle RPM onwards, red line at 6500 RPM level, power and torque curve in low end as if a high torque (US V8 like) engine, in high end as if an supercharged petol engine, fuel consumption about 25% less than the petrol equivalent.
All of this with a Diesel.
These monsters allow easy tuning as well.
Sometimes even without violating warranty.
I think this can be called progress.
Technology has been introduced only a few years ago.
Hans