daly944

I have heard of a stand alone fuel management system, and I was wondering about a couple things. First of all, what is it. Second of all, does it do anything for performance. Third, will it work in my car. FInally, is it worth the price. If it is where can I get one. Thanks.

Skip

There are three major players that are common as Porsche applications: MoTeC, Electromotive, and Wolf. None of these are cheap... and are only found on full-blown race cars (or TurboTim's practice car:-) Not only do they cost a lot to purchase, but they usually require a bunch of dyno time to tune... and, if you aren't adept on doing it, then you'll be paying a great deal of money to someone who is. If you really want something like this... you are MUCH better off buying someone else's... unless you plan to compete in the Speedvision GT or ALMS circuit? Engine management is serious business... but yes, it will provide much horsepower (along with all the other things that folks do when running this setup.) If you're serious about it, give one of the major tuner shops a call (Andial, Huntley, Powerhaus, Milledge, etc...)

Good Luck!

art

Take a look at www.sdsefi.com. I am using this on a 911 engine with E cams. The wilder cams make things difficult, but the system is very reasonably priced compared to others. Look at the site they do a good job of explaining the pros and cons. My main advice would be to make sure you have realistic expectations. Doing this is a great learning experience and you will gain much respect for factory systems.

Art

TurboTim

I would like to correct some myths about stand alone.The first one is tuning time! If you know what you are doing it doesnt take too long to tune.It can be done in a couple hours on a dyno. If you dont know what you are doing it will take forever and possible engine damage can occur! Another fallacy of stand-alone systems.....They are expensive.This is true to a point(and there are some affordable systems) but what you have to consider is that these systems will last forever.If you change parts on your engine you can make adjustments to the unit.Over time this will dramatically reduce the overall cost, especially considering if you use a stock based system you always have to have new chips burned for every little change,otherwise your engine will never be at its optimum performance.If you also think about all the crap you can sell to offset the cost like the DME/KLR, wiring harness,airflow meter, various sensors and gimzos,etc...... then the cost is not as great as it might seem initially. There are other systems out there that offer great bang for the buck like mass-flow systems.These are easy to tune and set-up and some of them give you the ability to tune your fuel curve for various stage along your build-up.I also just released the new SFR mass-flow system with a fuel controller:^)However, there are limitations on these systems.You can never control timing! Timing is very critical in making power.Typcially I can use timing to advance the power curve when others have to use boost presure to do this.Think about this.... would you rather have a car that makes 300 horsepower at 20 psi or have a car that makes 300 at 16 psi? I am sure most of us prefer using less boost to make the same or more power.This is where stand-alone separates itself from mass-flow systems,chips,etc......It can do this.I have seen gains as high as 25% by just installing a system like this.

Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com

chris924

Would this system be effective on NA engines?

Chris

TurboTim

Effective yes.... but worth the money, well that is questionable. It really depends on what type of N/A engine you are reffering too. I am not talking about whether it is a sixteen valve or an eight valve but what is the motors intended purpose.Is this a specially built motor that is meant for the track? Or is this a stock motor with an exhaust and airfilter? I would say that a purpose built N/A motor (or turbo motor for that matter), that was designed for being run to the ragged edge, track abuse, etc... would defintiely benefit by using stand-alone.Would it make alot more power? To an extent. You could still see gains as high as 25%. However 25% of 150 HP is not very significant.The biggest benefit of a system like this on a purpose built engine, would be insurance on an investment.If you build your engine with the best parts, dont you want the best system running the show? Stand-alone is the best.You can literally tune a car to the ragged edge,take it to the extreme and yet have the capability to make it pass emissions or turn it in to a mild mannered grocery getter that gets gas mileage that would make Ford Festiva owners drool:^)


Tim
86 951 http://www.speedforceracing.com

daly944

how much would all the parts needed for a stand alone system cost for a 944na 8 valve? HOw long would installation take? IS it very complicated?

cstoreoffice1

In my opinion yes it's effective and there are lots of fuel management system provides on
affordable Price .

MB968

I tend to agree generally with TurboTim's comments. I'm a fairly tech savvy mechanical engineer that worked in R&D and high tech design of machinery. I personally installed an Electromotive TecGT on a Mazda KL engine that I'd highly modified, and also had custom designed and machined a supercharger system for. Wiring was not difficult, but connecting the standalone to 10 different sensors, to the injectors, fuel pump, etc. etc. took a lot of time. Tuning was not that difficult with the auto tune features of the software that come with the TecGT (and probably other brands). I achieved the initial tune with running on the street/highway under a lot of conditions and letting the auto tune decide what the settings for fuel should be. After several weeks of playing around this way, I finally got the car on a dyno, and after about 3 hours had a nicely tuned engine. The dyno runs, probably ~25 of them, allowed us to take out about 10% fuel across the board, and added a lot of timing from mid rpm to redline. In the end, I was getting about 285 whp out of 2.65l with 9 psi, with a base compression of 8.8:1.

Unless you have a built NA engine for racing, I doubt the gains would be worth all the effort or cost. Unless, like me you are just wanting a nice techie project and the $'s and time aren't a negative. For me, my car was a daily driver, that occasionally saw a day of autox. It was just a fun car to drive.

Butters944

Way to give your opinion on perhaps one of the oldest threads in Rennlist history, bravo

Winter44

His first post at that!