When I bought my 924S seven years ago, I thought I made an improvement installing the Hella DOT Vision Plus headlights. These lights were an improvement over the DOT sealed beams that came with the car, but come close to the beam pattern of any quality european code headlight. That is the way to go.

For more information, along with a basic overview I suggest you visit the following sites:

Daniel Stern's Site:
<a href="http://lighting.mbz.org/faq/" target="_blank">http://lighting.mbz.org/faq/</a>

Chris Kantarjiev of Dimebank Garage
<a href="http://www.dimebank.com/Light-up.html" target="_blank">http://www.dimebank.com/Light-up.html</a>

The information is basic, explained really well and points out such things as: why most of the blue tinted lights that are non-HID are unsafe and why PIAA's claim of more super bright bulbs is a technical farce.

One thing to remember, if you don't want to incur electrical problems, stick to legal 55/60 watt lights with the stock Porsche electrical system. Because a high power relay is not installed, use of 80 or more watt bulbs will burn out your headlight switch which is very expensive to replace. If you must overwatt, install a relay and heavier gauge wiring for the headlight circuit.

I wish I had learned this stuff seven years ago!

Chris
1988 924S

 

i've installed some (indian made lights.. autopal)but any way, i used an off beat of the wattages listed, i have 55/100watt bulbs and have had no problems yet. but i would like to know the wattages that are used in the euro cars, the reason is, i'm sure, not positive , that the cars for the states were wired alike which would lead me to belive the the stock wiring can handle the extra load of my high beams. thae low beams are way brighter than any dot light i've tried

they are 10 times better than any of the sealed beams and i payed $15 a piece for them from marietta foreign auto parts plus $8 ea for the bulbs

 

[quote]Originally posted by chris924S:
<strong>One thing to remember, if you don't want to incur electrical problems, stick to legal 55/60 watt lights with the stock Porsche electrical system. Because a high power relay is not installed, use of 80 or more watt bulbs will burn out your headlight switch which is very expensive to replace.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Is this comment based on fact or conjecture? I've been running 90/100 bulbs in my S2 with stock wiring for over four years without a single problem, and I use the stock 7.5A fuses. Jim Pasha wrote an article for Excellence a few years ago and he stated that Porsche wiring was fine with the higher powered bulbs. I'll dig it out and see exactly what he said. That doesn't mean that relays are not a good thing.

 

Tom, you probably won't burn out the switch but you are certainly running the risk of doing so.

I don't know how you are preventing those 7.5 amp fuses from blowing with a 90/100 watt bulb in place. You are right on the edge and hitting high beam should do it.

You get the bulbs OK? My E-mail has totally crashed until I get a new ISP.

Chris, the Hella Vision Plus is also known as Vision Minus. I also understand the weep hole likes to let water into the lens for a nice fishbowl result in pop up headlight applications. I haven't run these on my 951, but this water biz is what I have been told by Miata owners that have.

instigator, the standard European bulbs for H-4 are 55/60 watt, same as US. The low beam isn't way brighter than a US 55 watt bulb, it just looks that way due to where the lens places light. The 100 watt high beam is taxing your wiring, all you have to do is measure the voltage you are getting with that beam running. Just because the whole car doesn't blow up in flames like Perry's did doesn't mean everything is OK.

 

Hi Tom.
I am fanatic about light, have very poor night vision as well...

Did the same thing on my first conversion (way back when) on an audi 80.
Found that voltage drop was a bit high and changed the stock wiring.
Then:
- Melted the plastic connector housing (on the harness that connects to the lamp)and the first bit of the wiring insulation.
- Destroyed the light switch contacts (no relays either)
Finally:
- created an conversion kit with relays, activated via the standard wiring, used 90/130 W H4 bulbs for years now.
( The E-code lenzes are standard in Europe, not allowed to use anything else)

You might want to have a look here:
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000289" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000289</a>

You might get away with the overwatted lamps, just because of the huge voltage drop.
But since this will also reduce the emitted amount of light from the bulb, you might get just as much vision with standard 50 W lamps.
I would get the kit from IceShark if I did not hade it already, saves lot of time creating the solution from parts/bits/pieces...

Take Care

 

thanks for the info Ice

 

Ice, I'm still out here wanting your kit...how do I get it from you? How much?

 

Dan in P, I have put your name down on the list and will keep you informed.

The total price will depend on how many takers sign up but it is going to be something under $250 including the lenses, bulbs, all the wiring, etc.

However, I was having trouble with my ISP, which is MSN, and getting e-mail. A couple days ago my entire e-mail locked up so I don't know who has said they are in for sure or even retrieve the e-mail addresses of those that expressed interest. I do have a hand written list of names so I am not totally lost.

MSN was trying to shove customers over to some sort of web based e-mail rather than the POP3 server and I must have got caught in some SNAFU. So I have to wait for a program disk to arrive in the mail to try and fix. I can't even down load the program from Microsoft over the net because the file is so big and MSN will cut your dial-up connection after 45 minutes no matter what you do. It is a real mess and I wish I never heard of Bill Gates and Microsoft. If someone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

[quote]Originally posted by IceShark:
Tom, you probably won't burn out the switch but you are certainly running the risk of doing so.<hr></blockquote> I'll dig out that Excellence article and see what it says. I ran 90/100 H4s in my 1984 Audi 5000S with the Euro lights from 1984 until I parked it in 1998, without a single problem or even a single burned out bulb. The 90/100s were definitely brighter than 55/60s, as are the 90/100s I'm running in the Porsche.

[quote]I don't know how you are preventing those 7.5 amp fuses from blowing with a 90/100 watt bulb in place. You are right on the edge and hitting high beam should do it.<hr></blockquote>Yes, it looks like I'm right on the edge [100/13.5=7.41]. I will double-check the high beam. I know the low beam has 7.5A, but I may have switched out the highs. FWIW, Jim Pasha recommends switching to 10A fuses.

I'm going to take some voltage readings this weekend to see where I stand. My lights "look" very bright... but maybe they could be a lot better

BTW, I found some wiring that goes to nowhere. It's a pretty heavy RED and BLACK pair that terminate in a white connector that is not connected to anything. It's located behind the right side headlight along the upper frame area... sort of hidden among things. Anyone know what this is for? I'll stick the VOM on it and try to find out when it's active.

[quote]You get the bulbs OK?<hr></blockquote>Got them yesterday. Thanks.

Dan, regarding the Hella Supers. You stated the old style E-code lens doesn't focus the beams very well. Well, mine are about five years old and they sure seem to work pretty darn well. I set the low beam cutoff per the required aiming directions and the high beam throws a lot of light... and it's not just "throwing it up in the sky" like you said. It goes far down the road. Unless I'm missing something here I don't see what the Hella Supers are going to do for me. I guess I would have to do a back to back comparison to be convinced they are better than what I already have.

Ciao.

 

Tom, Well you got the bulbs so at least something has gone right.

I was sort of shocked when I checked UPS rates and those of the Postal Service. UPS is way higher and that box could have cost over $160 via UPS, rather than the $3.50 for 2nd day with USPS. Must be related to 9-11.

I doubt you are getting 13.5 volts to the lights, and also think you have out of spec fuses and bulbs that aren't drawing stated rates. Stick in one of the new bulbs and a new fuse. I bet the fuse will blow in a flash.

As far as the headlights, you really need to put them on a test bed to tell. You can't do that as an individual due to cost and your eyes are probably going to lie to your brain anyway.

The old Hella v. Super is what is from the test sheets. Cibie is great all around and never had this issue unless you go back to the Z-Beam which were considered top of the line by most folks. Those headlights are worth a bunch of money today, if you can find them, unused the better.

I have the Supers on one car. In my 951S, I took out the "old" Hella H-4s and put in Cibie. (I first went Cibie Z-beam, then rocks broke lenses off an uncovered East trailer, to Hella and back to Cibie standard.) I like the Cibie better, better than the Hella Supers. So that is where my money is, but I didn't think the Rennlisters would have a clue about Cibie, much less want to buy it vs. Hella.

This project gets hammered by folks that don't think the standard wiring is all that bad. How on earth can I get people to line up behind Cibie who basically withdrew from the NA market 10 years ago?

 

If anybody is looking to upgrade headlights without fear of melting wiring and blowing fuses, I'd suggest one of two things. Currently I have some Raybrig H-4 conversions with FET galaxy white bulbs (55/60 watts) and they look great, much brighter and close to the HID "look" (not blue, but a slight bit of purple). I sell bulbs all day long and out of all the ones I have seen Fet/Catz galaxy white bulbs are the brightest 55/60 I've seen.

The other option is the get the h-4 HID conversion. I know these things were outrageously priced in the past, but prices have come down. High beam, low beam versions are available with the Hella balast for around 600-700 dollars (low beam only can be had for as little as 450). This is alot better than the 1200-2000 dollars car manufacturers charge as factory options. I know 600-700 is still a bit steep, but its not that bad considering that a good set of fog lights can set you back 250-350. The HID kits I've seen with the Phillips or Hella balasts look great.

-sb 86'951

 

sean, I thought the total Bull$hit posting like yours was done with on Rennlist where intelligent minds tend to congregate. Apparently not. As you seem to like Phillips and Hella for the ballasts, why don't you report back your conversation with them on these shlock abortions with their equipment you are advocating.

And tell me what NHTSA (US Feds) has to say.

 

Look guys, I was trying to help clear up a lot of misconceptions and prejudices. For example, someone quoted Jim Pasha's article in Excellence mentioning that it was possible to change out 8.0 fuses for 10 amp fuses on the headlight circuit. That is correct.

It is also correct, if you read further, that he explains potential problems if you overtax the existing wiring. How it is not only possible to ruin your headlight switch, but also your ignition switch since they are on the same circuit by using overwattage lights.

You should pay attention to the things that knowledgeable people, like IceShark have to say. They know what they are talking about. You should also spend a few minutes and visit those two sites I mentioned in my original post.

By the way IceShark, they are very much vision minus lights. I got around the problem of the weeping hole by simply plugging it up with a piece of high temperature electrical tape. What I did not know at the time, was how inadequate the DOT regulations were and how much Hella had to dim down the light construction to make it meet specs.


By the way the Pasha article appeared in Excellence February 1997.

Chris
1988 924S <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

 

Hi, again, Pasha did publish an answer to a question about upgrading headlamps to 100 watt bulbs. It was in August 1999 and completely contradicted his February 1997 article. Believe what you want.

I would never use those lights in my car with the existing wiring. I used to own a Honda and had a number of problems that came from using high wattage bulbs with stock wiring that did not have a high voltage relay. The switch contact points begins to corrode and oxidize for arcing. Overtime the switch will begin to fail, and the problem could spread to other parts of the electrical system.

I know my car. I can't speak for later model S2's or Turbo's.

Just be careful.

Chris
1988 924S
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

 

IceShark, do you know the difference between Hella Super H-4's and the regular Hella H-4's?

I e-mailed the guys at Serious Auto, Miata suppliers and did not get a reply.

Can you tell me how each of the Hellas stack up the the Cibie e-codes?

Chris
1988 924S