Well...I went up to my spot by myself today and got the hubs, swaybar, tie rod ends, and control arms off in an hour and a half. I looked really well at my right factory original a-arm and the ball joint appears to be 100%, so that is a relief. It was much simpler than I thought it would be to take it out...I guess working on cars when you are hung over (like I was on saturday, also only after 4 hours of sleep) kind of limits your thought process and can make something quite simple seem like something very hard. I am going to go back tonight and finish putting together my engine hoist, take of the x-over pipe, and remove accessory belts. I can't do any more work until monday because I have to go back to my home town friday afternoon (niece's baptism on saturday), but I will see how far I can get with degreasing the motor.

I suspect monday night or tuesday I will finally see the bottom end of my motor. I imagine it will take me 1/5 the time to put everything back together since I have been doing things really really slow because this whole thing is a learning experience. I forgot to order my powdercoating stuff again today (argh!) but maybe I will do that right now.

The sway bars were the easiest thing on a car I have ever taken off. Even with a tie-rod puller that I bought, it was near impossible to get the tie rod ends off (I had to bend the dust shield on the back of the brake rotors to fit the puller properly). Is the tie-rod supposed to spin endlessly?

Oh...a couple questions...

1. What kind of socket can I get to fit the rod nuts? They look really really wierd.

2. Just double checking before I make a fatal mistake: the two metal eyes, one on the front of the motor kind of near the stock air box and one on the rear behind the camshaft housing, these are what I will hook my chain on my motor hoist to, correct? The rear eye seems a little loose, so I will probably wrench it down tight.

3. How will I know I have the motor hoist on tight enough? Should I jack the motor up from the oilpan a couple of mm, connect the chains tight, and lower it, expecting it to tighten up to a proper tension?

Thanks guys (I always say that),

 

[quote]Originally posted by ribs:
<strong>1. What kind of socket can I get to fit the rod nuts? They look really really wierd.</strong><hr></blockquote>

A standard 12 point socket is fine. Most likely your 3/8" sockets have 12 points. For comparison, most 1/4" sockets are 6 point. I can't remember the rod nut size, something like 17mm or 15mm.

[quote]Originally posted by ribs:
<strong>2. Just double checking before I make a fatal mistake: the two metal eyes, one on the front of the motor kind of near the stock air box and one on the rear behind the camshaft housing, these are what I will hook my chain on my motor hoist to, correct? The rear eye seems a little loose, so I will probably wrench it down tight.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Correct. These are the engine lifting points. Don't tighten the rear bolts too much. They are only M6 and the torque spec for them is 7 lb-ft. I know... it doesn't seem like enough to hold the engine but it worked fine for me and I am still alive. I actually ended up bending the rear lifting point. The engine hoist I rented didn't put the force directly over the lifting point. When I was done with the job, I ended up removing it and putting it in my vice to straighten it back.


[quote]Originally posted by ribs:
<strong>3. How will I know I have the motor hoist on tight enough? Should I jack the motor up from the oilpan a couple of mm, connect the chains tight, and lower it, expecting it to tighten up to a proper tension?</strong><hr></blockquote>

This sounds rather difficult to me. I rented an engine hoist so I jacked the hoist up slightly so that the chains were tight, then removed the crossmember. In your situation, you've got the right plan. With the motor mount fasteners disconnected, jack the motor up half an inch with a block under the oil pan, secure the chain as tight as possible, then lower the jack and remove the crossmember. Obviously be CAREFUL when you do this.

 

I dont know if i agree with the idea of jacking up on the motor!!!! I think you should thing about taking a chain from eye to eye on the motor and leaving some slack and using a come-a-long to put the tension on it. As for it being able to hold the motor i have been using the same one for abuot 5 years, with a full size a-frame (which i got from a garage sale for $40, man that was a steal!!!!) <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

MArk

 

You can jack up the motor just fine. Make sure you place a piece of wood between the pan and your jack.

On the other hand, can you jack up the motor far enought to take the slack out of the chain? I don't know.

 

If you are using the tried and true 2 x 4 spanning hoist to support the motor, you can control the height of the motor a bit by using a long shank eye bolt on each end. That way, you can adjust the chains to be reasonably tight with the majority of the thread available to lift the engine an inch or more when required. It worked for me!!

Good luck..You have more energy than I do. Of course, there is a difference of some years as well....

Cheers!!

Bob S.

 

I just did this procedure a couple of nights ago. I cinched up the nuts on my "official" Porsche engine-holder hand-tight:



Then I gave it another turn and a half with a wrench and checked to see that the chains were tight.

Then I undid the crossmember bolts so that it would lower 1/2" (had to pry a little). Then I put a jack under the crossmember and watched the engine as I raised it back up. The engine didn't move which indicated to me that the engine was already hanging from the hoist and not sitting on the crossmember. I unbolted the crossmember (with steering-rack attached) and lowered it onto a cinder block. Be careful about that hard hydraulic line for the power-steering.

 

Wow...lots of good stuff since I last checked this thread! All questions answered in full! I like that.

[quote]Originally posted by Steve Lavigne:
<strong>
A standard 12 point socket is fine. Most likely your 3/8" sockets have 12 points. For comparison, most 1/4" sockets are 6 point. I can't remember the rod nut size, something like 17mm or 15mm.

Correct. These are the engine lifting points. Don't tighten the rear bolts too much. They are only M6 and the torque spec for them is 7 lb-ft. I know... it doesn't seem like enough to hold the engine but it worked fine for me and I am still alive. I actually ended up bending the rear lifting point. The engine hoist I rented didn't put the force directly over the lifting point. When I was done with the job, I ended up removing it and putting it in my vice to straighten it back.


This sounds rather difficult to me. I rented an engine hoist so I jacked the hoist up slightly so that the chains were tight, then removed the crossmember. In your situation, you've got the right plan. With the motor mount fasteners disconnected, jack the motor up half an inch with a block under the oil pan, secure the chain as tight as possible, then lower the jack and remove the crossmember. Obviously be CAREFUL when you do this.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bob,
I have a replacement set of rod nuts, so I can take one with me to sears to find a proper sized socket for them. All of my sockets (3/8 and 1/2) are 6 sided, so I will have to hunt down a 12 sided socket properly sized. Thanks for the heads up on the lifting eyes...I will tighten the rear down to 7 pounds. As far as how I plan to suspend the motor (I bought a bunch of lumber and hardware to put together my own hoist), read further down.

[quote]Originally posted by marky522:
<strong>I dont know if i agree with the idea of jacking up on the motor!!!! I think you should thing about taking a chain from eye to eye on the motor and leaving some slack and using a come-a-long to put the tension on it. As for it being able to hold the motor i have been using the same one for abuot 5 years, with a full size a-frame (which i got from a garage sale for $40, man that was a steal!!!!) <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

MArk</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't know about running a chain from eye to eye...the thought never occured to me. I think I will do it the way danno did...I wish I had a real engine hoist, but I have no garage (except the one I am renting) to keep it in...I have my closet in my house at school normally filled to the brim with tools, jacks, air compressor, etc...I really wish I had a garage. Read further down to see what I am thinking here.

[quote]Originally posted by Tabor Kelly:
<strong>You can jack up the motor just fine. Make sure you place a piece of wood between the pan and your jack.

On the other hand, can you jack up the motor far enought to take the slack out of the chain? I don't know.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have a piece of wood for that specific purpose. I am still considering my options though...read further down to see what I decide...

[quote]Originally posted by Bob S.:
<strong>If you are using the tried and true 2 x 4 spanning hoist to support the motor, you can control the height of the motor a bit by using a long shank eye bolt on each end. That way, you can adjust the chains to be reasonably tight with the majority of the thread available to lift the engine an inch or more when required. It worked for me!!

Good luck..You have more energy than I do. Of course, there is a difference of some years as well....

Cheers!!

Bob S.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks bob...I think I am going to do it your way! I have 2 4x4's layed across my engine bay (well, I took them out since I still have to cut my last piece of wood for the chains to bolt to the motor) and will have 1 4x4 layed across the middle longitutinally much like danno's (pictured below), with a couple of 3/8" x 6" (I will have about 2 inches to play with) eye bolts in them. I have a huge washer to put between the nut and the eye bolt on the top of the wood so as to give it stable footing (so the bolt doesn't suck the nut through the wood...just in case), and I have 2 3.5' sections of chain (maybe I got too much?) rated to 2000 pounds, and a 4 800 pound screw-links so I can attach them top and bottom. Hopefully this will do it.

I will try raising the motor slightly using the eye bolt, and then I will know it is supported.

[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>I just did this procedure a couple of nights ago. I cinched up the nuts on my "official" Porsche engine-holder hand-tight:



Then I gave it another turn and a half with a wrench and checked to see that the chains were tight.

Then I undid the crossmember bolts so that it would lower 1/2" (had to pry a little). Then I put a jack under the crossmember and watched the engine as I raised it back up. The engine didn't move which indicated to me that the engine was already hanging from the hoist and not sitting on the crossmember. I unbolted the crossmember (with steering-rack attached) and lowered it onto a cinder block. Be careful about that hard hydraulic line for the power-steering.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll see how the way that bob told me to do it goes (kind of like yours, but testing the sturdyness of the hoist before dropping the x-beam). I didn't think about putting the beams across the bay in my hoist like yours...I modeled mine after this picture: . That should work, you think? I got all of the parts I could see in the picture at home depot, and I have one more cut to make, maybe tomorrow if I wake up early enough (doubtful), otherwise monday, and I will have my dad's circular saw, which will make it a cinch.

Thanks again everybody! Read my new questions in the continuation of this thread.

 

A little food for thought:

I was talking to my wrench a few months ago about 6 vs 12 pt sockets when I wanted to get the O2 sensor off my RX7. He told me you get a better grip with a six point, and the 6 point does less damage to the head of the bolt since the socket fits around more of the bolt.

There are of course the times when it is near impossible to get the socket on the bolt using a six sided socket...........

Bon Apetit

 

Tom - that 6 vs. 12 pt statement makes no sense to me - a 12 point should be able to apply more force, as it makes contact in more places, evenly, around the fastener, no?

The 12 points do have a tendency to crack due to thin wall thickness though, in my experience.

 

My old mechanic told me the same thing that Tom's did. Oh well.

 

[quote] that 6 vs. 12 pt statement makes no sense to me - a 12 point should be able to apply more force, as it makes contact in more places, evenly, around the fastener, no?<hr></blockquote>But the fastener (bolt, nut, etc.) still only has 6 sides! A 12-point socket primarily grips at the tip of those 6 corners on the bolt. While a 6-point socket will tend to spread force down towards the flat sides of of the bolts.

A 12-point socket does work well if you have a 12-point bolt/nut, like those used on the con-rod end-caps, because now you truly have 12 points of contact

 

right o danno! thanks for splaninin it for me.

 

I don't think anyone answered this part yet, so here it is. In regards to the tie rod ends spinning. This is the worst part! They do spin a little they are brand new, but it usually takes a tremendous amount of effort to spin them (i.e. locking one half in a vice). However, as they wear they spin easier, and easier. Usually when you loosen the nut and there is some rust of its cross-threaded the shaft will spin. You're options are to 1)use an impact wrench or 2)cut the rod bolt off. I've done both, but the impact wrench is the easiest if you have one. Liberally apply WD-40 or whatever to the threads when you tighten the nuts down. Also, I used a pickle fork to remove the tie rod ends and i had to use a 10lb sledge to generate enough force to pop one of em loose. If you resort to hammering up on the threaded part with a hammer, you will definitely need new tie rod ends....usually because this damages the threads.