Mccray

Well I guess it's time to bite the bullet and get on with trying to fix the strange noises coming from the front of my engine. I would like to pose a few questions to the board.

1. I live in Rke, Va. Not a lot of service choices here. Got a quote to replace belts and rollers for $600-700. (not including H20 pump)
2. I could drive the car to the dealer in Greesboro, NC (about 100 miles.) They have quoted me $500 and will loan a car to tool around the town while they fix it.
3. I could do it myself. If I do it myself, I could save enough - I think, to offset the cost of a new water pump, and special balance
shaft wrench, special parts, etc.

The local wrnech figured 7 hours. Personally if it takes me a week or two I don't care. The 944S is a garage queen - occasional driver.

I have read Haynes, the web posts, etc. and think I can do it. BUT, one can't help but notice the italicized print in Haynes that says - in short, "leave this to the dealer".

Can anyone who has done this on a 944S - replace water pump, both belts, and rollers, and tensioners, tell me what are the watchouts, and biggest headache of the job?

I can buy the balance shaft tensioner wrench and flywheel lock for about $80. If there is an option to the $300-400 belt tensioner, I might try it too. (I'm a tool junkie)

I've done several jobs on the car - replace motor mounts, r&r radiator, etc., but have never screwed around with the timing of the engine.

Any help appreciated to help me decide what to do......

Marshall
1987 944S - awaiting surgery

emilysgranny

Mc; If this were a 944 8 valve I would say go to it. If you do mess it up the fix would not be all that bad. But a 16 valve head is dam expensive and you do not get a second chance when you crank it over. Unless you are very mechanically inclined , leave it to the pros.Please do not take offense, I'm just trying to warn you after having worked on these for a long time.The job itself is not hard, but you better know exactly what you are doing. Good luck , which ever way you go.

Riff

Marshall-

Since you are pretty mechainically inclined, I'd tell you to go ahead and do it. There is a really good write up at Porsche 944 garage in the shop manual section. The previous experience you have with working on the car is a plus. I had about the same experience level when I did this job on my S2 over the summer. The biggest headaches for me was replacing the front seals on the car at the same time. Had quite a bit of difficulty getting the new seals seated correctly. That and I managed to crack my balance shaft pulley due to mis-installation. As long as you have all the marks lined up correctly, there is no more danger of doing harm to your motor as to doing this job on a 8V motor.

There is an alternative to the "tool" made by the gates company. You can see it here Blaszak Precisioin Motorsports and it is what I use with no issues, though others will tell you otherwise. If you are a paid Rennlist member you can just use this resource Tool Club and borrow the tool. Jay is a great guy and you'll get the factory tools to do the job.

HTH

Michael Stephenson

Riff,

I have the Markus tool as well and I have used it to check to see if the belts needed retensioning.

Since the layout of the belts for the 16 valve motor is so different than that of the 8 valve ones, I was wondering if you could give us some indication of where on the belts you took your measurements and if you needed to do anything special (remove anything, etc.) to achieve the proper reading.

If I remember correctly, my belts measured with the proper tension when the indicator arm was placed between the teeth and they were way off when placed on the teeth, which is contrary to what is on Markus' website. However, I have not checked the settings on the site with the marks on my tool to see if they are the same - perhaps he revised his methodology (I hope so or else my belts are way off)

Thanks

Riff

Michael-

The layout of the belts is the same between the 8V and the 16V motors, only real change is the auto tensioner or the manual one, though I hear that the 968 tensioner is a different beast entirely, but I have never seen one of those.

I measured the tension across the upper span of the belt (between the cam sprocket and the crank sprocket) and had to remove the idler that sits in between, I think that the belt guide (mounted to the waterpump) needs removal too. I also use Markus' recco and take the measurement on a tooth, not between. Never tried to take a between measurement, is it tighter or looser????

Another thing to remember is that you need to hand crank the engine over 2 revs to TDC then spin it counter-clockwise 1.5 teeth on the cam sprocket when measuring the tension. I believe this is because if you have the engine cranked to TDC the belt is already pre-loaded and you need to measure the tension on a "free" belt. This is just my read on the "why" of the counter-clockwise rotation, not anything I read in a manual.

HTH

Mccray

Riff,
Makes sense that the 2 rotations would unload the belt some, but why the reverse 10 degrees?

Have you ever R&R'd the water pump? It appears to me that the book says the crank tensioner has to come off - and that means removing the starter to use a flywheel lock. Does that sound right to you?

Marshall

Steve Lavigne

You don't need the special balance shaft wrench. All you need is needle-nose pliers with a 90 degree bend in them. It'll cost about $15 and will be available at a Tool Town type place, and possibly even at Sears. Just stick the needlenose ends in the two largest holes on the balance shaft sprockets.

Additionally, you don't need the flywheel lock. A large screwdriver in the flywheel will work just fine. You don't need an assistant to hold it, just gravity on the breaker bar will keep the screwdriver in place.

Riff

Marshall-

Actually the 2 clockwise rotations will load the belt, the 10deg counter rotation unloads it.

And yes, I did replace the h2o pump in the car this summer, along with replacing the front seals and all rollers. For the wider timing belt, you will need to remove the crank sprocket which means locking down the flywheel. You can use the flywheel lock (I do) or a crewdriver as Steve suggests. Thing is, putting the crankshaft sprocket back on requires torquing the bolt to 150 ft-lbs and I would be a little apprehensive that the screwdriver could fail/break under that load, but that is just my opinion.

HTH

rfuerst

If you can replace motor mounts then you can replace the belts.I just finished motor mounts on my 1987-944S and did the belts last year,all though not the water pump.The most important part in my opinion is getting and maintaining TDC before disassembly.If I remember correctly it took me about 3 hours to do the job,but I was so nervous I checked everything 10 times.I also tensioned the belts and re-tensioned 1500 miles later without a tension gauge,I tightened the belts until the longest span between rollers I could turn the belt 90 degrees,I have driven about 5000 since and no noise and no problems.Save the money and do it yourself if you feel comfortable,half the fun of owning a sports car is getting in there and working on her.

Mccray

OK - Thanks everyone for the advice! I'm gonna get the tools I need and do it. In fact, I think while I have it down, I will replace the seals too. Might as well make a major project of it......

A couple more opinions needed. 1. I see that Zim's has a kit that includes belts, and rollers, and a kit for seals, and a kit with all races and hardware. While I like the simplicity of ordering that way. I have always used genuine Porsche parts on my car. Anybody want to put in their 2 cents on this?

Also, I see that Vertex has both rebuilt and new pumps. My inclination is to go new for $189, but I can get an OEM rebuilt for about $100.

What do ya think??

Marshall

Skip

In this case, Porsche parts are best... but, some of the items may no longer be supported by Porsche, thus you must use the aftermarket equivalent (usually from the same manufacturer that the factory sourced from anyway... with the exception of belts *maybe*)

Go for the new waterpump... too many stories of rebuilts not lasting the prescribed 60K miles. A small price to pay for only doing it once every 5 years. That's a good price, though I've seen better sorry, couldn't resist.

Make sure you are getting the updated Turbo pump and the block-off plate (if yours is not already updated) and the belt guard parts (again, if not already equipped)

Good Luck!

m.e.mccray

Skip,

Thanks for the reply. My apologies for not checking with Paragon first. I agree with you. The new pump is probably the best way to go. However, many of the Pcar dealers told me they use the PCNA (American Sourced) water pumps in their shops.

I'll probable spring for the difference and go with a new one. Like you say - small price if once every 5 years.

Thanks!
Marshall

Mark Lue

In the spring I bought my new OEM waterpump from Europroducts for $159 after seeing their add in the Panorama magazine. This months Panarama confirms that the WP is still available for $159. The WP is made by Lasco and is an updated model with the blocker plate for NA or Turbo.