help..need some ammo for argment
02-25-2002, 06:11 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Akron
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
help..need some ammo for argment
alright heres the situation, I want to get a porsche 944, but my dad said they are too expensive to keep b/c of repairs, next time we talk about this, i need some facts and such about 944's that i can tell him, or some reassuring advice, or tidbits, thanks
02-25-2002, 06:17 PM
#2
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
They are expensive to maintain unless the PO took care of it. If you can get a good car with good records, then hop on it.
Any car can kill you on repairs, Yugo, Nissan, Dodge, whatever. Best thing to do is convince your dad that it is just another car. (But we all know diffrent)
If you read the list often enough, most of us with problematic cars had PO's that neglected them in one way or another. The ones that got a good car to begin with usually comment on the regular items like belts, clutch, etc.
And as always. if you can do the repairs yourself, things can be pretty easy on the wallet.
Any car can kill you on repairs, Yugo, Nissan, Dodge, whatever. Best thing to do is convince your dad that it is just another car. (But we all know diffrent)
If you read the list often enough, most of us with problematic cars had PO's that neglected them in one way or another. The ones that got a good car to begin with usually comment on the regular items like belts, clutch, etc.
And as always. if you can do the repairs yourself, things can be pretty easy on the wallet.
02-25-2002, 07:02 PM
#4
Race Director
Cuddy8161, Well I don't know what kind of car your dad is looking into, but here's my personal experience with two cars I've owned.
1982 Supra from 1983-1993. Bought used with 15k-miles on the clock. Drove it 230kmiles during the 10-years I had it. Aside from regular twice-a-year oil-changes, brake pads every couple of years, the only repair-service I had to do was replacing the alternator because the voltage-regulator went out. It went the entire distance on the following stock parts:
Even so, you are NOT buying a Honda with 100k-mile warranty here. Count on at least $2000-3000 a year in maintanenace. A lot of that is perfectly normal service. It can be more depending upon the condition of the car and the previous owner's care or lack of care in pampering the car.
1982 Supra from 1983-1993. Bought used with 15k-miles on the clock. Drove it 230kmiles during the 10-years I had it. Aside from regular twice-a-year oil-changes, brake pads every couple of years, the only repair-service I had to do was replacing the alternator because the voltage-regulator went out. It went the entire distance on the following stock parts:
- water-pump
- distributor rotor & cap
- brake rotors front & rear
- A-arm ball-joints
- wheel bearings
- timing belt (replaced once at 100k-miles)
- half-shaft CV-joints
- clutch
- $350 water-pump replacement
- $80 distributor rotor & cap
- $450 front brake rotors & new bearings/seals
- $900 front rebuilt A-arms for new ball-joints
- $350 timing-belt replacement
- $250 replace 4 CV joints
- $2500 clutch (Centerforce Dual-Friction)
- $1200 head gasket
- $2800 rod-bearings replacement
- and others I've forgotten about or 'chosen not to remember'
Even so, you are NOT buying a Honda with 100k-mile warranty here. Count on at least $2000-3000 a year in maintanenace. A lot of that is perfectly normal service. It can be more depending upon the condition of the car and the previous owner's care or lack of care in pampering the car.
02-25-2002, 07:47 PM
#5
Advanced
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your dad's right. You're going to spend big bucks out of the gate just count on it. If you happen to find a pristine one then it will cost you more up front. My 1987 924S was pristine by appearance. Only 37,000 miles on it. Just to be sure I sunk $3000 into it for belts, etc. Plan on spending and if you don't spend, be happily suprised.
02-25-2002, 10:14 PM
#6
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Akron
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alright everyone could i please have some more positive things about 944, we're suppose to b fanatics, dont put down these cars, does it help for a comparision that my dad has a porsche 356B, maybe i could compare... thanks again
Trending Topics
02-25-2002, 10:29 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: LA, Calif., USA
Posts: 1,887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yo - be realistic. they *are* expensive, but you already knew that, huh? maybe try a 924 or early model like 83 944. but then there's still the cost of repair and upkeep. maybe if you saved as how much you spend on it (beforehand), have a job at the same time, and come up with a budget for those reserve funds for after-the-fact stuff. i think he doesn't want to get stuck with an engine overhaul bill. i dunno, jus trying to be real.
02-25-2002, 10:33 PM
#10
Advanced
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Akron
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
deni (and anyone else)~~
r the 924 cheaper the keep in good shape, or r the 944 cheaper to keep, i realize the 924 is cheaper when u first pay for it, but the 944 is newer so wouldnt there b better technology, so i wouldnt have to makee al of the repairs?? thanks once more
r the 924 cheaper the keep in good shape, or r the 944 cheaper to keep, i realize the 924 is cheaper when u first pay for it, but the 944 is newer so wouldnt there b better technology, so i wouldnt have to makee al of the repairs?? thanks once more
02-26-2002, 12:46 AM
#12
Pro
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cuddy:
This is from the old timer. Nearly everything said in the above posts is spot on. We may be fanatics, but we all have holes in our wallets from time to time because what would cost $35 on a Honda costs $235 on a P car. If Dad is picking up the tab, perhaps he may have also done some research and knows the finicky nature of our beloved marque. Since it would be his dime, he has that right. If you are footing the purchase, be warned that, unless the car has been pampered to death (that is, all maintenance done when required, all repairs done by competent pros and the drivetrain not abused by holeshots) the vehicle will, on the average, cost between $1500 and $2000 to make absolutely sure it will remain essentially roadworthy. What should be done? (1) NEVER trust that the timing belt has been replaced and/or retensioned as required. If the belt breaks, you are looking at well over a grand for valves. Even a mechanic's signature does not ensure you if it breaks later "Hell, it's obvious it was overreved and the belt was abused"....Hard to refute.(2) The clutch should be inspected as well as the transmission for proper fluid level, metal residue, etc. In fact, before buying one, it is mandatory that the car be gone over by an impartial competent Porsche mechanic. That will cost a couple of hundred, but without the inspection you could be buying trouble.
As for the old 2.0 liter 924, having had one of these leadsleds, they aren't fast but they handle very well and are excellent cars with which to learn good driving skills. If the timing belt breaks, the engine does not self destruct. And, 99.9% of the folks out there see "Porsche" and think "fast and expen$ive". If you refrain from stoplight grand prix starts (at which you will be embarassed more often than not) you will leave them wondering. The 924S on the other hand is a 944 in sheep's clothing, having the drive components of a 944. Therefore it has the same shortcomings as the regular 944: timing belt, quirky clutch setup, marginal cooling system (check the posts on water pumps, fans and thermostats), electricals that could be better, etc.
The positives? You are buying mystique and exclusivity. It may not be the fastest ride in town, but there ain't enough to go around and you have yours!!
If I wanted a Porsche and was on a limited budget and wanted somthing that wasn't going to spend a large portion of its time up in the air, the 924 2.0 liter would be a good choice. They are about as complex as a flatiron. However, they are getting a bit old in the teeth. You may be better off to buy something a bit more mundane, start a special account and somtime in the next few years, who knows?
I had a 356B years back. I sold it in 1990. The new buyer wanted a "perfect" car. For the last six years that 356 has been on a "rotissere" in a thousand and one parts. The cost has discouraged him utterly. Last time I saw him he asked if I wanted it back. I shook my head, smiled and walked away. Beautiful car. Not enough room for all the bushel baskets....
Cheers!!
Bob S.
This is from the old timer. Nearly everything said in the above posts is spot on. We may be fanatics, but we all have holes in our wallets from time to time because what would cost $35 on a Honda costs $235 on a P car. If Dad is picking up the tab, perhaps he may have also done some research and knows the finicky nature of our beloved marque. Since it would be his dime, he has that right. If you are footing the purchase, be warned that, unless the car has been pampered to death (that is, all maintenance done when required, all repairs done by competent pros and the drivetrain not abused by holeshots) the vehicle will, on the average, cost between $1500 and $2000 to make absolutely sure it will remain essentially roadworthy. What should be done? (1) NEVER trust that the timing belt has been replaced and/or retensioned as required. If the belt breaks, you are looking at well over a grand for valves. Even a mechanic's signature does not ensure you if it breaks later "Hell, it's obvious it was overreved and the belt was abused"....Hard to refute.(2) The clutch should be inspected as well as the transmission for proper fluid level, metal residue, etc. In fact, before buying one, it is mandatory that the car be gone over by an impartial competent Porsche mechanic. That will cost a couple of hundred, but without the inspection you could be buying trouble.
As for the old 2.0 liter 924, having had one of these leadsleds, they aren't fast but they handle very well and are excellent cars with which to learn good driving skills. If the timing belt breaks, the engine does not self destruct. And, 99.9% of the folks out there see "Porsche" and think "fast and expen$ive". If you refrain from stoplight grand prix starts (at which you will be embarassed more often than not) you will leave them wondering. The 924S on the other hand is a 944 in sheep's clothing, having the drive components of a 944. Therefore it has the same shortcomings as the regular 944: timing belt, quirky clutch setup, marginal cooling system (check the posts on water pumps, fans and thermostats), electricals that could be better, etc.
The positives? You are buying mystique and exclusivity. It may not be the fastest ride in town, but there ain't enough to go around and you have yours!!
If I wanted a Porsche and was on a limited budget and wanted somthing that wasn't going to spend a large portion of its time up in the air, the 924 2.0 liter would be a good choice. They are about as complex as a flatiron. However, they are getting a bit old in the teeth. You may be better off to buy something a bit more mundane, start a special account and somtime in the next few years, who knows?
I had a 356B years back. I sold it in 1990. The new buyer wanted a "perfect" car. For the last six years that 356 has been on a "rotissere" in a thousand and one parts. The cost has discouraged him utterly. Last time I saw him he asked if I wanted it back. I shook my head, smiled and walked away. Beautiful car. Not enough room for all the bushel baskets....
Cheers!!
Bob S.
02-26-2002, 01:03 AM
#14
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
What other cars were you and your dad considering? A more complex, expensive to repair older car may not be that bad when compared a much newer and more expensive (initially) to purchase car. Maybe you can use the repair payments vs monthly car payments argument.
But, you must not kid yourself, the belts will need doing if you ain't absolutely sure of their recent attention in the last 30k/3yrs. A 944 isn't an appliance like so many of the cars on the road today. These aren't cars you can forget about, you must stay on top of them, but it's quite a ride on top!
An E30 bmw isn't a better car but is similar and may widen your options. Either way, $30K or $40K
cars (when new) will always have those premium service bills.
Jason
But, you must not kid yourself, the belts will need doing if you ain't absolutely sure of their recent attention in the last 30k/3yrs. A 944 isn't an appliance like so many of the cars on the road today. These aren't cars you can forget about, you must stay on top of them, but it's quite a ride on top!
An E30 bmw isn't a better car but is similar and may widen your options. Either way, $30K or $40K
cars (when new) will always have those premium service bills.
Jason
02-26-2002, 01:57 AM
#15
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cuddy, here's some ammo (.44-caliber):
Even the most mundane modern cars can be pricey to fix or repair. A friend of mine has a Suzuki Sidekick that blew its brake master cylinder. The local dealer wanted close to $600...for the part! My friend had some connections with Suzuki, so he was able to get it at dealer cost of "only" about $300. Same part for an '86 944 through Performance/Automotion: $149.95. Similar story about an ignitor module for an '87 Honda Civic...close to $300. Modern cars are complex and rather expensive to repair, regardless of make.
The key is investing a bit early to get the car mechanically up to snuff, then be fanatic about maintenance. Tell your dad that you'll do the repairs yourself...it's a great education in "wrenching." (Don't know if you're mechanically inclined, and/or have friends who could help you.)
Good luck!!
--Doug
1989 Baltic Blue S2
Even the most mundane modern cars can be pricey to fix or repair. A friend of mine has a Suzuki Sidekick that blew its brake master cylinder. The local dealer wanted close to $600...for the part! My friend had some connections with Suzuki, so he was able to get it at dealer cost of "only" about $300. Same part for an '86 944 through Performance/Automotion: $149.95. Similar story about an ignitor module for an '87 Honda Civic...close to $300. Modern cars are complex and rather expensive to repair, regardless of make.
The key is investing a bit early to get the car mechanically up to snuff, then be fanatic about maintenance. Tell your dad that you'll do the repairs yourself...it's a great education in "wrenching." (Don't know if you're mechanically inclined, and/or have friends who could help you.)
Good luck!!
--Doug
1989 Baltic Blue S2