Which oil weight for my climate?
09-16-2011, 02:34 PM
#31
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
Jay,
go back and read the viscosities of the 0w oils at 200 degrees. they are virtually identical to the heavier summer oils. i'm so impressed with the Mobil 1 Rally 5w50 that i'd probably run it come springtime, but i'll stick with the 0w40 once the LS3 goes in.
go back and read the viscosities of the 0w oils at 200 degrees. they are virtually identical to the heavier summer oils. i'm so impressed with the Mobil 1 Rally 5w50 that i'd probably run it come springtime, but i'll stick with the 0w40 once the LS3 goes in.
09-16-2011, 02:37 PM
#32
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
I will go back and read it. Thanks for all information you posted.
09-16-2011, 02:53 PM
#33
My engine leaks a little now. I would think 0w oil would really leak it out. I will stick to 10w-40 oil. The advantage of heavier oil has been said it sticks/stays in places. So in theory on startup there should be some oil on those bearings for the last time it ran.
Don't synthetics over time actually sink into the metal to help lubricate the oil. What about Z Max?
Don't synthetics over time actually sink into the metal to help lubricate the oil. What about Z Max?
09-17-2011, 12:15 AM
#34
From the official website fo the Federal Trade Commission:
" The Federal Trade Commission has filed suit in U. S. District Court seeking to halt false and misleading advertising for zMax auto additives and has asked the court to order refunds to consumers who bought the products..."
"...tests cited to support performance claims actually demonstrated that motor oil treated with zMax produced more than twice as much bearing corrosion than motor oil alone.."
I'm not a lover of oppressive govt "help" but if the product were so revolutionary, why wouldn't Mobil, Castrol or Valvoline have simply licensed the patent?
My 232k engine going from 20w-50 dino to 5w-50 synth shoudl leak like a sieve, eh?
Not to mention oil channels unclogging their sludge into my scavenger, ya?
I've read many antecdotes but I'd be interested in reading horror stories from actual victims.. before I make my final decision.
Thoughts y'all?
" The Federal Trade Commission has filed suit in U. S. District Court seeking to halt false and misleading advertising for zMax auto additives and has asked the court to order refunds to consumers who bought the products..."
"...tests cited to support performance claims actually demonstrated that motor oil treated with zMax produced more than twice as much bearing corrosion than motor oil alone.."
I'm not a lover of oppressive govt "help" but if the product were so revolutionary, why wouldn't Mobil, Castrol or Valvoline have simply licensed the patent?
My 232k engine going from 20w-50 dino to 5w-50 synth shoudl leak like a sieve, eh?
Not to mention oil channels unclogging their sludge into my scavenger, ya?
I've read many antecdotes but I'd be interested in reading horror stories from actual victims.. before I make my final decision.
Thoughts y'all?
09-17-2011, 12:30 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
Hi Patrick.. In trying to rectify both schools of thought:
- Were these 20w-50 motors perhaps mostly run during the warm summer months?
- In OZ, are the daily drivers ( like me in US) starting their motors for 6 months straight of the year in sub 75F/24C temperatures? Do you mostly see DD's or summer -only 944's?
- Were these clean 20w-50 motors always taken down to the bearing/journal levels for inspection?
Or had those bearings you've seen represent a small % of the total engines seen?
Thanks in advance!
Just trying to come up with a control factor for the possible variances.. to help me make a switch.
Cheers!
- Were these 20w-50 motors perhaps mostly run during the warm summer months?
- In OZ, are the daily drivers ( like me in US) starting their motors for 6 months straight of the year in sub 75F/24C temperatures? Do you mostly see DD's or summer -only 944's?
- Were these clean 20w-50 motors always taken down to the bearing/journal levels for inspection?
Or had those bearings you've seen represent a small % of the total engines seen?
Thanks in advance!
Just trying to come up with a control factor for the possible variances.. to help me make a switch.
Cheers!
-These were cars run year round from DDs to trackcars.
-Even in OZ in the Winter, the mornings can get brisk. Say 30-45f.
-Mostly, yes.
09-17-2011, 12:58 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
and if you somehow have a learning disability, and you have to struggle just to get through page 2,
if nothing more, learn and master the first graph shown there.
0w synthetics flow like regular oil does a few minutes after startup.
that is so say, it has the same thickness when the engine is ice cold as a 10w, or 15w oil has after the car has been running a while.... but it does this when ice cold--the moment when 90% of the damage we do to our engines occurs. if this concept is too radical for you all, then consult the automakers and their white papers. ask yourselves why a Ferrari F-430 has a maximum range between 0w30, 5w30 and 0w40 synthetic oil. why ? startup. the effin' engine is expensive to fix. so the solution is not to destroy it in the first place.
oh, our cars are different? yes, our cars require at least a 12 weight oil at 200 degrees. that would equate to 40 weight oil. show me a 944 that has failed running 0w40 or 5w50 oil. they fail because of damage done to the bearings during hundreds of cold startups. then finally being pushed under high performance after the bearings are already shot. but the posters say, "my oil failed today and i spun my number 2 rod bearing"... no d_ckwad, your bearings were destroyed before you even started the car... 40 and 50 weight oils run at something like a 12 and 17 weight respectively at operating temperature. the key is never getting to the point where the bearings have been damaged in the first place.
synthitic 5w50 is not a magical, multi-grade synthetic that will fall apart like it's conventional mineral counterpart... but the snake oil salesmen here will keep telling you all to run 15, 20w50 oils when it's freezing cold outside. the maximum thick oil we should ever be running in the winter would be Mobil 1 Racing 0w50 oil (the best oil on earth, period). or the less costly 0w40 or 5w50s.
but, wtf.... there's no cure for stupid.
turbocharger video
http://www.youtube.com/user/Official.../3/j-4WnBc3CKY
,
if nothing more, learn and master the first graph shown there.
0w synthetics flow like regular oil does a few minutes after startup.
that is so say, it has the same thickness when the engine is ice cold as a 10w, or 15w oil has after the car has been running a while.... but it does this when ice cold--the moment when 90% of the damage we do to our engines occurs. if this concept is too radical for you all, then consult the automakers and their white papers. ask yourselves why a Ferrari F-430 has a maximum range between 0w30, 5w30 and 0w40 synthetic oil. why ? startup. the effin' engine is expensive to fix. so the solution is not to destroy it in the first place.
oh, our cars are different? yes, our cars require at least a 12 weight oil at 200 degrees. that would equate to 40 weight oil. show me a 944 that has failed running 0w40 or 5w50 oil. they fail because of damage done to the bearings during hundreds of cold startups. then finally being pushed under high performance after the bearings are already shot. but the posters say, "my oil failed today and i spun my number 2 rod bearing"... no d_ckwad, your bearings were destroyed before you even started the car... 40 and 50 weight oils run at something like a 12 and 17 weight respectively at operating temperature. the key is never getting to the point where the bearings have been damaged in the first place.
synthitic 5w50 is not a magical, multi-grade synthetic that will fall apart like it's conventional mineral counterpart... but the snake oil salesmen here will keep telling you all to run 15, 20w50 oils when it's freezing cold outside. the maximum thick oil we should ever be running in the winter would be Mobil 1 Racing 0w50 oil (the best oil on earth, period). or the less costly 0w40 or 5w50s.
but, wtf.... there's no cure for stupid.
turbocharger video
http://www.youtube.com/user/Official.../3/j-4WnBc3CKY
,
09-17-2011, 01:23 AM
#37
Hmmmm.... Thanks.
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm AND a low winter weight.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
09-17-2011, 03:14 AM
#38
Hmmmm.... Thanks.
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm AND a low winter weight.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm AND a low winter weight.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
09-17-2011, 03:57 AM
#39
Late Porkchops
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hmmmm.... Thanks.
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm AND a low winter weight.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm AND a low winter weight.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
09-17-2011, 12:02 PM
#40
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
why i'll be sticking with my cheap, Walmart Mobil 1....
Hmmmm.... Thanks.
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm,
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Does make the debate more unrectifiable...
Too bad that Porsche USA doesn't assign a couple engineers to make a definitive 944/928 oil recommendation for us today... including a ppm of zddp level value.
I'd assume it would be Mobil1 centric as per their marketing collaboration.
But only M1's Racing 0W-50 has more than 1100ppm,
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
the oils i've mentioned; 0w40, 5w50 Rally, 0w50 Racing and 15w50 high perfromance oils are all high zddp oils. we put the zddp debate to bed last year in the oilwar threads. the very high zddp is one more reason why their 0w50 is not only their best oil, *(as excessive wear at startup isn't limited to the winter months).... but maybe a mix of 0w50 and 0w40, would be a really good oil combo to be running in the winter.
it seems the Mobil 1 people did indeed leave the high zddp in several of their 'eurocar' oils.
the 0w-40, 10w40 high milage, and 5w50 have the higher levels of the phosphorus and zinc added.
both with 1000 ppm phosphorus and 1100 ppm zinc,
the 15w-50 (summer oil) has 1200 ppm phosphorus, and 1300 ppm zinc,
Mobil 1 Racing 0W-50 is the best w/ 1750 ppm phosphorus, and 1850 ppm of zinc.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/...otor_Oils.aspx
"The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications...."
09-18-2011, 12:54 AM
#41
If 1100ppm instead of 1300ppm is indeed sufficient then I'll move onto Cold Cranking Viscosity as a comparator:
Valvoline VR1 20w-50 = 8,200@ -15C (my current oil)
Castrol Syntec 5w-50 = 6,600@ -30C
Mobil1 AdvSyn 5w-50 = None Listed but can extrapolate same as Syntec.
So the empirical data shows that a 5w at -22degrees Fahrenheit is considerably easier to crank ( and thereby flow ) than my 20w is at just 5degrees F... right?
Thus, the 90% of engine wear at start-up is significantly mitigated ( at any sub-180F degree day) when comparing the 20w-50 conventional wisdom staple to new 5w-50 synthetics?
Then, the final questions are:
1. Has 23 years of 20w starts already ruined the bearings?
2. At this point is the surf in Mazatlan really that bitchin'?
P.S.: http://www.barsproducts.com/tech/4401_tech.pdf
Rislone 5,000ppm ZDDP available at Advance for $11.49
Last edited by VirginiaF1; 09-18-2011 at 01:26 AM.
09-18-2011, 02:20 AM
#42
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
sorry to tip your apple cart but, you need the 0w40, 0w50 or 5w50 synthetics below 50 degrees farenheit. and these are even too thick at startup when it goes below 32 F (oil is a compromise). run the thicker oil in the summer.
09-18-2011, 03:51 AM
#43
09-18-2011, 09:00 AM
#44
Rennlist Member
So on the basis that 20w/50 is indeed devil's sporn in temps as low as 32f(even though the factory manual has ok'd it) then of course we have cars dying by the side of the road all the time due to them not running 0w/30 M1 at 50f or lower? ....but we don't. Why is it so? We are presented with irrefutable evidence that 90%+ damage occurs at startup especially with these dinosaur oils, the same oils that a vast number of people ran for years and years, nay decades, yet when opened up, a lot of wear items were still within spec after hundreds of thousands of miles. Just dumb luck I guess. 
In point of fact, if these 5w/50 oils indeed do perform as advertised, then there seems little reason to use anything else year round? It would appear that you can have your cake and eat it. Hurrah!!
In point of fact, if these 5w/50 oils indeed do perform as advertised, then there seems little reason to use anything else year round? It would appear that you can have your cake and eat it. Hurrah!!
09-18-2011, 11:44 AM
#45
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
still less than 5 dollars/quart at Walmart...
the factory would never recommend such thick oils if the manuals were written today... it's 25 years later and there are better options offered from the modern, wide viscosity oils.
;
;
Last edited by odurandina; 09-18-2011 at 12:11 PM. Reason: typo