giuffrec

Have some questions as to the optimum suspension setup to street and track my 1986 951. Current susension mods include Weltmeister strut brace and front and rear sway bars. I was going to go with hollow 29MM rear torsion bar next but it was suggested that I go with Bilstein ajustable coilover kit at the four corners including ajustable Camber-Caster Plates and leave the stock torsion bar in place. It is my understanding that I will than be able to adjust the ride height and camber to my track mark setting and back to my street mark before leaving the track. Can anyone tell me what works best from experience and/or suggest a great suspension upgrade at a reasonable cost?

I am also looking to increase the HP and was going to add Mass Flow but understand that it doesn't give much increase in HP for such a higher cost. I want to get the most bang from my stock engine without replacing the turbo (Just Yet)The only current engine mods include Lindset Boost Enhancer and K&N stock filter replacement. Can anyone suggest what works best and a logical order of performance upgrades?

Thanks, Any help is appreciated.

Tom Pultz

Hi,

Questions such as these would probably best be posted to the 944 and 951 email lists. You will get many more responses from very knowledgable people in the business of modifying 944s. FWIW, most people on those lists do NOT read these web boards.

As for your plans... if you install 29 mm torsion bars without stiffening the front end I think you will find yourself driving off the road backwards a lot

The Bilstein racing coilover setup is very stiff and not really streetable. There are no really cheap ways to go coilover since any system you fit in conjuction with stock torsion bars will raise the rear ride height and you will have to re-index the torsion bars anyway. I've been there, done that.

I think if you want a stiffer car that's still streetable I'd go with the 29 mm bars and then fit something around 250-275 lb/in front springs. But what struts will you use? Stock turbo struts aren't really that good and there are no new Koni setups currently available at a reasonable cost. Your best bet may be finding something in the used marketplace.

Check out my web site and see what I've done to my 944 S2. It may give you some tips.

Have fun.

aka 951

Tom, I'm confused as to strut upgrades and coilovers. I thought that the yellows from the M030 951s (pre-952) are available at Paragon for about $200+ each.

I've had a set of these on my 944S (87) and 951 (86) for at least a year. These are externally adjustable. Are these different from the original turbo yellows?

Or is it that they don't have ride-height adjustment? In that case, the coilover kit I have on them is available at ground countrol or Paragon for about $200 with springs. Total cost with springs about $650.

Erick

Seattle944t

Giuffrec, I have an 87 951 and have done some of the things you planning on.
I have 30mm Hollow torsion bars in the back and Koni (yellow) Sports all the way around. The front is modified to a coil-over setup running 450# springs. Yes the ride height can be adjusted, but it's not that easy. Unless you have scales on each wheel you really don't want to be doing this you will end up throwing off the weight balance of the car. I don't have the adjustments at the back so only the factory adjustments are there, about 1/2" to 3/4" change I think and it's not easy to change this. Also I think my front end is a little too soft for the size bars I have in the back, probably need a little bit stronger springs up front. As it stands now the ride is pretty stiff, not something you want to drive on rough roads everyday.
I would have to say that your best bet is to find a good tuner that has racing experience and have them set-up the suspension. This includes a corner balance and alignment. With the camber plates you can adjust them between street (about -.5 degrees or so) and track (about -2.5 degrees). Leave the ride height alone. It changes the car dynamics too much.

As far as performance mods go, bang for the buck wise I would suggest the following: A 3” Off-road test pipe. I got mine for about $250. This gets rid of the cat and made a huge difference on my car. Turbo was fully spooled up about 500RPM lower, and the power was better at all revs. It also drops about 40 pounds of weight. Then a set of chips, I had the Huntley Racing chips and was pretty happy with them. You can probably find someone selling a used set of chips cheap. I think I paid $200 for the Huntley chips new. In this configuration plus the K&N filter in the stock airbox my car put out 225 HP at the rear wheels (Dynojet dynomometer) ~265HP crank if you figure 15% drive train losses. It also still passed the state emissions test with flying colors. Both of these mods are pretty easy to do yourself as well so it saves some money there as well. So for about $500 or so you pick up about 50HP, not too bad really Oh, I did these mods on the car with 106K miles on it and didn't see any problems. I would also suggest that if you go with chips that you pick up and additional boost gauge, since the dash mounted one doesn't read very high.

C DeVito

You might want to check out this month's issue of Grassroots Motorsports Magazine. They bought a 944 as project car and installed a coil over package this month. As I remember the article it wasn't a cheap project, but it will give you some insight on the scope of the task.

Carmen

Brent 89 - GT

I have also done most of the mods you list. I have 29mm hollow torsion bars and 450# coil over konis in front. I take longer trips in the car fairly often and do not find it to be too stiff. The small sharp bumps are really handled similar to stock. The larger bumps, or whoops in the road demonstrate the lack of suspension movement though. I also would forget the idea of changing from street to track set ups. I find mine acceptable on the street and killer on the track. I then had the car corner balanced, lowered and given a street/track alignment. There is noticably more neg camber set but it doesn't appear to be wearing my street tires any differently. I am VERY pleased with this set up and I am glad I didn't bother spending another $1000 on rear coil overs. I initially tried the konis and the larger sway bars without the new springs. Don't bother, the springs are what makes the difference.

For the HP dept I went Autothority mass flow with chips, an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, test pipe, boost enhancer. I am very pleased with this set up as well. If you need to drive the car in rainy conditions I would be tempted to keep the stock airbox as the mass flow places the filter below the hood gap. It looks as though hard rain could pose a problem, though I have not had one yet. If you keep the stock flow sensor, get a set of chips, the test pipe, pressure reg and have your throttle body enlarged. I bet you will be within 20 hp of my set up for about $800 less. I do think the mass flow system is more responsive, and provides a bit better drivability in addition to more power. So I do like it, besides it adds a bit of induction noise which sounds great! Good luck with the new toy, there are tons of ways to set these up.

giuffrec

Thanks to all who gave advice. The decision is as follows:
Front: Weltmeister Sway Bar and Cambermeister, 400lb. shortened coils over Koni yellows with ajustable ride height kit in the front.
Rear: Weltmeister Sway bar29mm hollow torsion bars with Koni Sports.
If this works well the next suspension upgrade will come in November when the new Koni inserts are available for the front. Probably do Camberplates also. If it doesn't it will be back to the drawing board regretting not spending and maybe spending the money on Coil-Overs.

As for additional power I have purchased the AutoThority mass flow. I was tinking test pipe but why not clean out the catalytic converter? Also it was recommended that I drill out a port in the waste gate and use shims. Any words to the wise on this?

Thanks again. Hopefully I will soon be full of good advice for those who get the bug in the future.
Chris

PS. Tom really appreciated your Web page. What are the email lists you refered to?

Danno

>Also it was recommended that I drill out a port in the waste gate and use shims. Any words to the wise on this?

No, this is two separate procedures on two different parts. One is to drill a hole in the cycling-valve (under the intake-manifold) to bleed off boost, thus activate the wastegate later for more boost.

OR, you can shim the wastegate for higher spring-tension, thus requiring more boost-signal from the cycling-valve before it opens and dumps boost.

I would advise against the first mod because it's inconsistent. Just get a Lindsey Boost Enhancer to adjust boost.

Then shim the wastegate as well since the spring tends to get weak with age and will dump your boost at high-RPM due to exhaust pressure. You may still be losing boost due to this weak spring even if you were to crank up the boost-controller for higher-boost.

P.S. Go to the "email lists" link on this website and sign up for the email digests. A lot more people on that discussion and easier to read thousands of messages in digest mode.

-danno

giuffrec

Thanks Danno

Brent 89 - GT

I have just a couple thoughts here. I think you are building a very "loose" car with 29mm bars and only 400 lb springs. I have 450s in front and the car is loose on the street. Also I think the factory cup car bars are better than the weltmeisters. The w's will rattle on the street, the Porsche bars don't. I would also not mess with the wastegate, if you upgrade the turbo then go for it. There is a reason the gate dumps boost at high rpm, on the stock K26 you will "overspeed" the turbo at high rpm and kill it.

Tom Pultz

Loose? Boy, I would think it would be just the opposite and plow like a pig. A 29 mm torsion bar is roughly equivalent to 290-300 lb/in wheel rate. My rear coilover setup with 24 mm bars and 275 lb/in helper springs is also about the same rate... but I run 300 lb/in front springs and my car certainly is not loose, it's very well balanced.

Brent 89 - GT

Tom, I understand what you are saying. I have read the same thing on these boards a few times. Getting the front and rear rates close to equal should balance the handling, or so the theory goes. I am also running the cup car bars, 30mm front and 19mm adjustable rear set on the middle hole. I would also think that a larger rear bar would work better in my car. BUT it is really quite neutral, don't ask me why. I am able to drift either end of the car at will and can easily steer with the throttle. It feels very balanced to me. Using the formula of equal rates my car should plow, but it doesn't. At my last DE I took an instructor along for a few laps, he runs a modified Turbo S, he commented on how well set up the car seemed to be. The only improvement he suggested was to switch from my slippery Yokos to Hoisiers. Maybe it has something to do with the extra 100 or so hp my car has over the S2, or maybe it is just that my home track is very fast and the extra push is not noticed. Unfortunately most of us do not have the luxury of trying several set ups, we normally take the advice of the "experts" around us. Sounds like we both did just that, and even though the approach was different, the results were similar, we both love how our cars handle.