Why do people track these cars?
12-15-2012, 06:03 AM
#1
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Why do people track these cars?
I've been wondering this for a while as it seems the 944 is a fragile car that doesn't do too great under the stress of track conditions. Sure all cars will experience certain problems on a track but with the issues the 944 has like the rod bearings and cracking a-arms it just seems weird that these cars would be so popular to drive on road courses, although I can see how they make great streetcars.
So why put up with it? And don't tell me it has to do with the cheapness or handling as there are cheaper cars to turn into racers and much better handling cars that will outlast these things.
So why put up with it? And don't tell me it has to do with the cheapness or handling as there are cheaper cars to turn into racers and much better handling cars that will outlast these things.
12-15-2012, 06:24 AM
#2
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rod bearings and cracking a-arms? Ive had several 944s, Turboes, S2s and basic 8 valve N/A ones. Ive tracked and raced them as have my friends and Ive never heard of bad rod bearings and cracking a-arms.
My friend has been racing his 951 with a almost stock engine for 5-6 years and never missed a beat.
So if you ask me why so many people use them? Very well handling cars and excellent buildquality and reliability.
My friend has been racing his 951 with a almost stock engine for 5-6 years and never missed a beat.
So if you ask me why so many people use them? Very well handling cars and excellent buildquality and reliability.
12-15-2012, 08:18 AM
#4
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I've heard of rod bearing failure, but that usually only happens when oil is low. A arms, yes they crack but its rare. M3 have more a arm issues.
944s are tracked because unlike most cars, they can do it right out of the box
944s are tracked because unlike most cars, they can do it right out of the box
12-15-2012, 08:42 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
944s are awesome track cars, not only are they a lot of fun to drive, but they really are "robust enough", too.
Remember, in the mid '80s, the 944 was Road and Track's Best Sports Car - there was a reason for that.
I've tracked/raced 944s for thousands of miles over the last 15 years and have never had a #2 bearing or aluminum control arm failure.
The short answer is: 944s are more fun than a barrel of monkeys
Remember, in the mid '80s, the 944 was Road and Track's Best Sports Car - there was a reason for that.
I've tracked/raced 944s for thousands of miles over the last 15 years and have never had a #2 bearing or aluminum control arm failure.
The short answer is: 944s are more fun than a barrel of monkeys
12-15-2012, 09:08 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
lol. Never tried that, I'll take your word for it!
I track my car because I'm a masochist and I like constantly spending huge sums of money that could otherwise be used for all sorts of worthwhile and practical purposes... (according to my wife anyway).
I track my car because I'm a masochist and I like constantly spending huge sums of money that could otherwise be used for all sorts of worthwhile and practical purposes... (according to my wife anyway).
12-15-2012, 09:10 AM
#7
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As mentioned, all cars have their issues but 944s do provide a nice, practical option.
I happen to have one of the other cars you may be thinking of that do better. My Miata is both my daily driver and my track toy. I started tracking the 944 but went to the Miata because I wouldn't be as concerned about wadding it up versus the 944. Yes, the car is downright bullet proof and I have been able to do things like a weekend at VIR where all I had to add was gas (even the oil never had to be topped off!). It's a great car for that role and I will readily recommend it as a track car. It's cheap, reliable and is pretty effin' good out there.
However, it has it's issues, too.
First off, if you want to go to the track then a rollbar is a must. There may be a few places that will let you on without one but even so, you don't want to do that. So, tack on another ~$500 for that. Also, if you have any kind if height then you may not clear the "broomstick" rollbar rule where if you lay a broomstick across the windshield and rollbar then the top of your helmet must still be more than 2" below the broomstick. That can be a difficult job to accomplish. Many places will not do the broomstick test if you have a hard top (another $1,000) so you can either do that or buy a racing seat. Keep in mind, if you need an instructor then you will often have to buy another setup for the passenger side since many clubs require equal safety for both student and instructor. So, by the time you buy the needed safety equipment to just get on to the track you are already pushing 944 price territory. While things like rollbars and seats are still good to have on track, they are not necessary in a 944 to get you out there.
After that, while my Miata has been bullet proof it is a 1.6L car which is both really gutless and has a fragile rear end which will, at some point, break on me. While the Miata and 944 are both "momentum cars", losing momentum in the 944 was not as much of an issue as the Miata because the 944 had enough grunt to get out of it's own way and get back up to speed.
The next set of issues is only going to be a problem for weekend warriers who still drive their cars on the street. If you are trailering it in then they won't be a problem. This is also the biggest problem that I have tracking the car.
The Miata is a very small car. Even things like the afore-mentioned racing seat can be difficult to find because there is a very limited supply of seats that will fit in one if you do not plan on stripping the interior. It took me a long time before I could find a seat that I could fit comfortably in while still fitting in the car. This is not going to be a problem in the 944. Just find a seat that's comfortable and put it in.
I also cannot carry that much going to and from the track. I have to install my R-compounds at home and drive over to the track on them. It isn't the best from a heat cycling standpoint and sucks in the event of bad weather. I had to leave my afore-mentioned VIR trip early because of the threat of serious thunderstorms on the drive back and I didn't want to have to drive 250 miles through that crap. By the time I pack my helmet, chairs, food, water, spare fluids, etc., I still only have enough room left for the most basic of tools and its even worse if I have to leave space for my wife. On our VIR trip, I had to have a friend bring stuff down for me so that we could fit our clothes in the car, too. The 944 can carry all of that stuff without any real issue which makes things so much easier.
So, yeah, while the Miata is a great, inexpensive car to track, it has it's own share of issues that are not readily obvious until you do it. As mentioned, I am tracking my Miata instead of the 944 because I don't want to wreck my current 944 and using an already-bought Miata is cheaper than buying another 944. But if something were to happen to my Miata and I had to buy another track car, I'd go with a 944 before buying another Miata just to keep the logistics of my track days easier.
BB.
I happen to have one of the other cars you may be thinking of that do better. My Miata is both my daily driver and my track toy. I started tracking the 944 but went to the Miata because I wouldn't be as concerned about wadding it up versus the 944. Yes, the car is downright bullet proof and I have been able to do things like a weekend at VIR where all I had to add was gas (even the oil never had to be topped off!). It's a great car for that role and I will readily recommend it as a track car. It's cheap, reliable and is pretty effin' good out there.
However, it has it's issues, too.
First off, if you want to go to the track then a rollbar is a must. There may be a few places that will let you on without one but even so, you don't want to do that. So, tack on another ~$500 for that. Also, if you have any kind if height then you may not clear the "broomstick" rollbar rule where if you lay a broomstick across the windshield and rollbar then the top of your helmet must still be more than 2" below the broomstick. That can be a difficult job to accomplish. Many places will not do the broomstick test if you have a hard top (another $1,000) so you can either do that or buy a racing seat. Keep in mind, if you need an instructor then you will often have to buy another setup for the passenger side since many clubs require equal safety for both student and instructor. So, by the time you buy the needed safety equipment to just get on to the track you are already pushing 944 price territory. While things like rollbars and seats are still good to have on track, they are not necessary in a 944 to get you out there.
After that, while my Miata has been bullet proof it is a 1.6L car which is both really gutless and has a fragile rear end which will, at some point, break on me. While the Miata and 944 are both "momentum cars", losing momentum in the 944 was not as much of an issue as the Miata because the 944 had enough grunt to get out of it's own way and get back up to speed.
The next set of issues is only going to be a problem for weekend warriers who still drive their cars on the street. If you are trailering it in then they won't be a problem. This is also the biggest problem that I have tracking the car.
The Miata is a very small car. Even things like the afore-mentioned racing seat can be difficult to find because there is a very limited supply of seats that will fit in one if you do not plan on stripping the interior. It took me a long time before I could find a seat that I could fit comfortably in while still fitting in the car. This is not going to be a problem in the 944. Just find a seat that's comfortable and put it in.
I also cannot carry that much going to and from the track. I have to install my R-compounds at home and drive over to the track on them. It isn't the best from a heat cycling standpoint and sucks in the event of bad weather. I had to leave my afore-mentioned VIR trip early because of the threat of serious thunderstorms on the drive back and I didn't want to have to drive 250 miles through that crap. By the time I pack my helmet, chairs, food, water, spare fluids, etc., I still only have enough room left for the most basic of tools and its even worse if I have to leave space for my wife. On our VIR trip, I had to have a friend bring stuff down for me so that we could fit our clothes in the car, too. The 944 can carry all of that stuff without any real issue which makes things so much easier.
So, yeah, while the Miata is a great, inexpensive car to track, it has it's own share of issues that are not readily obvious until you do it. As mentioned, I am tracking my Miata instead of the 944 because I don't want to wreck my current 944 and using an already-bought Miata is cheaper than buying another 944. But if something were to happen to my Miata and I had to buy another track car, I'd go with a 944 before buying another Miata just to keep the logistics of my track days easier.
BB.
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12-15-2012, 09:16 AM
#8
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The E36 is no doubt a great race chasis, but it has weaknesses, Miata's have weaknesses ( in fact all early 90's jap cars syncros don't hold up well)
The fact of it is, you can get into real racing via Spec 944 for cheap, and as such makes it a popular car for racing
12-15-2012, 09:55 AM
#10
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I am a bit surprised that no one has mentioned this but, here it goes;
The 944 makes a great track car because it has a race car heritage and this was built into each and every 944,944S,944S2, 944 Turbo & 968!
ONE sentence on 944's
really does sum it up: They are great track/race cars because they are PORSCHES!!!
It really does say it all... :P
The 944 makes a great track car because it has a race car heritage and this was built into each and every 944,944S,944S2, 944 Turbo & 968!
ONE sentence on 944's
really does sum it up: They are great track/race cars because they are PORSCHES!!!
It really does say it all... :P
12-15-2012, 10:27 AM
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12-15-2012, 10:31 AM
#14
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12-15-2012, 10:54 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Light, nimble, balanced & safe.
Stock na or turbo brakes are excellent.
Stock engine cooling is capable.
Stock seats are adequate for DE or track days.
Still very good factory and aftermarket support.
Strong unibody can handle twice the stock turbo hp without stress.
After 30 years of racing there is a solution for every possible weakness.
Much cheaper to race prep than Merc, BMW or Audi.
Dr.Porsche loved it:
"Porsche 944-Letter from Dr.Porsche
June 14, 1982
Dr. Porsche*
invites you to test drive
the newest Porsche.
944
My family, beginning with my father, has been
designing and building cars for over 80 years.
At first, we worked for other companies.
"But always," my father said, "there were too many
compromises."
So we formed Porsche - to build Porsches. To our
family's own standards. Without compromise.
Our very first Porsche was the 356.
Now there is a new Porsche: the 944.
The 944 has a 2.5-liter, 4-cylinder, aluminum-silicon*
alloy Porsche engine - designed at Weissach,
and built at Zuffenhausen.
It achieves a maximum torque of 137.1 ft-lbs as early
as 3000 rpm, and produces 143 hp at 5500 rpm.
On the track, the 944 accelerates from 0 to 50 mph
in 5.9 seconds. And it reaches the 1/4-mile mark from a
standing start in only 16.2 seconds at a speed of 84
mph. Its maximum speed: 130 mph.
The 944 has the Porsche transaxle design-proven at
Le Mans, and refined for everyday driving. It produces a
nearly-perfect 50-50 front-to-rear weight distribution
for balanced braking and improved cornering.
The 944's aerodynamic styling reduces air resistance
and improves road holding.
In fact, as a result of its total design efficiency, the 944
requires only 28 hp to cruise at 55 mph.
To my family, the 944 is more than a new car.
It is a new and true Porsche.
At Porsche, excellence is expected.
Dr. F. Porsche
Stuttgart"
Stock na or turbo brakes are excellent.
Stock engine cooling is capable.
Stock seats are adequate for DE or track days.
Still very good factory and aftermarket support.
Strong unibody can handle twice the stock turbo hp without stress.
After 30 years of racing there is a solution for every possible weakness.
Much cheaper to race prep than Merc, BMW or Audi.
Dr.Porsche loved it:
"Porsche 944-Letter from Dr.Porsche
June 14, 1982
Dr. Porsche*
invites you to test drive
the newest Porsche.
944
My family, beginning with my father, has been
designing and building cars for over 80 years.
At first, we worked for other companies.
"But always," my father said, "there were too many
compromises."
So we formed Porsche - to build Porsches. To our
family's own standards. Without compromise.
Our very first Porsche was the 356.
Now there is a new Porsche: the 944.
The 944 has a 2.5-liter, 4-cylinder, aluminum-silicon*
alloy Porsche engine - designed at Weissach,
and built at Zuffenhausen.
It achieves a maximum torque of 137.1 ft-lbs as early
as 3000 rpm, and produces 143 hp at 5500 rpm.
On the track, the 944 accelerates from 0 to 50 mph
in 5.9 seconds. And it reaches the 1/4-mile mark from a
standing start in only 16.2 seconds at a speed of 84
mph. Its maximum speed: 130 mph.
The 944 has the Porsche transaxle design-proven at
Le Mans, and refined for everyday driving. It produces a
nearly-perfect 50-50 front-to-rear weight distribution
for balanced braking and improved cornering.
The 944's aerodynamic styling reduces air resistance
and improves road holding.
In fact, as a result of its total design efficiency, the 944
requires only 28 hp to cruise at 55 mph.
To my family, the 944 is more than a new car.
It is a new and true Porsche.
At Porsche, excellence is expected.
Dr. F. Porsche
Stuttgart"