944 Neglect stories
10-22-2012, 02:20 AM
#31
Pro
Thread Starter
I started a thread in 2008 titled "can you unmolest a molested car?" Unfortunately all the pictures are gone, but here it is four years later and I'm still working on it. I'm dead serious when I say the only thing that hasn't been out of my car is the gas tank.
Today I'm hoping to get the interior back together so the car is drivable again. I pulled the dash out to get recovered (a second time) and it opened a big can of worms. Now I'm redoing things that I've already done and wasn't happy with (carpet, headliner, auxiliary gauges, etc). And, of course, I had to turn around and add something new - keyless door locks. And all the body work/paint I had done now looks like crap because the shop did a half-assed job (and they've long since gone out of business)
Today I'm hoping to get the interior back together so the car is drivable again. I pulled the dash out to get recovered (a second time) and it opened a big can of worms. Now I'm redoing things that I've already done and wasn't happy with (carpet, headliner, auxiliary gauges, etc). And, of course, I had to turn around and add something new - keyless door locks. And all the body work/paint I had done now looks like crap because the shop did a half-assed job (and they've long since gone out of business)
10-22-2012, 02:22 AM
#32
Three Wheelin'
I think they tried to steal gas! Troubling times I guess 
but that was over a year ago.
I can't complain because my PO was relatively OK considering some of these stories!
Belts were probably 45k old though... I could tell because even the p/s belt was just hangin on. Imagine threads parting. My car has a great history, but I found her when she needed me most. haha. And she was stock.
but that was over a year ago. I can't complain because my PO was relatively OK considering some of these stories!
Belts were probably 45k old though... I could tell because even the p/s belt was just hangin on. Imagine threads parting. My car has a great history, but I found her when she needed me most. haha. And she was stock.
10-22-2012, 02:26 AM
#33
Pro
Thread Starter
All the effort it takes to sneak to siphon gas....one could have made an honest $. Stealing just stinks.
10-22-2012, 02:35 AM
#34
Three Wheelin'
True. Well that reminds me, after I made the purchase, I realized the turbo intercooler banjo bolt-to-dme hose was shredded. The 951 was suddenly boosting to a rather spectacular --and mechanically unsafe -- 21 psi (estimated). It was surprising to say the least coming from this 4 cyl! I stopped that issue early but I'll never forget what I learned that day about the true capability of the 2.5L turbo. We all know it, but combining this with a 944's handling is memorable. And these fundamental characteristics of the machine don't go away despite time and/or neglect. I've got an '86 and it's nuts how good these cars are. Let's not forget the styling is still attractive all these eras later. People neglect them, but some persist and become rarities and become valuable. Values are rising. I would expect less neglect going forward -- and less irreversible modification.
10-22-2012, 02:39 AM
#35
Pro
Thread Starter
I LOVE how you stated this.....I got a visual of someone being wide eyed, worried and grinning like hell at the same time
10-22-2012, 01:43 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
I think these cars fall into the semi-exotic category where they were originally expensive cars but eventually fell out of favor with the orignal buyers who dumped them onto the used car market where people with lesser means snapped them up to get some of that magic. Only, later to find these cars had expensive maintenance requirements. So maybe they enjoyed them a bit but then sold them on to the next buyer, who inherited an ever growing list of neglected maintenance items. After 10 years or so wear & tear lists emerge; torn seats, cracked dashes, , broken arm rest covers, etc. get added to the list. Today, 20-30 years down the line, you get some pretty beat up cars, if they haven't been lucky enough to recieve proper care. The best cars are preserved and usually pass hands between people who are willing to put the money into them to maintain them. The others go to more budgeted conscious buyers who fix what they can and prioritize everything... what doesn't get addressed gets passed to the next owner to deal with.
In my mind, I put the 944 with cars like the Jaguar XJS, Alfa GTV/6, Saab 900Turbo, Maserati Bi-Turbo, and others. These were all great semi-exotic cars in their own way but seem to have issues that keep them off the top list of appreciating collector cars. Enthusiasts still love them, though, no matter how much work they are to keep. Among this group, the 944 has a lot going for it. As we all know it is an awesome car.
In my mind, I put the 944 with cars like the Jaguar XJS, Alfa GTV/6, Saab 900Turbo, Maserati Bi-Turbo, and others. These were all great semi-exotic cars in their own way but seem to have issues that keep them off the top list of appreciating collector cars. Enthusiasts still love them, though, no matter how much work they are to keep. Among this group, the 944 has a lot going for it. As we all know it is an awesome car.
10-22-2012, 02:57 PM
#37
Proprietoristicly Refined
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Lets go international on a Porsche 944S2 inspection!
Adrian Crawford is a Porsche dealer. Here he takes a walk around a Porsche 944 S2 and shows you why buying a cheap porsche is not always a good idea.
http://youtu.be/vvbBiiQ3juo
John
Adrian Crawford is a Porsche dealer. Here he takes a walk around a Porsche 944 S2 and shows you why buying a cheap porsche is not always a good idea.
http://youtu.be/vvbBiiQ3juo
John
10-22-2012, 03:06 PM
#38
Pro
Thread Starter
Lets go international on a Porsche 944S2 inspection!
Adrian Crawford is a Porsche dealer. Here he takes a walk around a Porsche 944 S2 and shows you why buying a cheap porsche is not always a good idea.
http://youtu.be/vvbBiiQ3juo
John
Adrian Crawford is a Porsche dealer. Here he takes a walk around a Porsche 944 S2 and shows you why buying a cheap porsche is not always a good idea.
http://youtu.be/vvbBiiQ3juo
John
10-22-2012, 03:18 PM
#39
Pro
Thread Starter
I think these cars fall into the semi-exotic category where they were originally expensive cars but eventually fell out of favor with the orignal buyers who dumped them onto the used car market where people with lesser means snapped them up to get some of that magic. Only, later to find these cars had expensive maintenance requirements. So maybe they enjoyed them a bit but then sold them on to the next buyer, who inherited an ever growing list of neglected maintenance items. After 10 years or so wear & tear lists emerge; torn seats, cracked dashes, , broken arm rest covers, etc. get added to the list. Today, 20-30 years down the line, you get some pretty beat up cars, if they haven't been lucky enough to recieve proper care. The best cars are preserved and usually pass hands between people who are willing to put the money into them to maintain them. The others go to more budgeted conscious buyers who fix what they can and prioritize everything... what doesn't get addressed gets passed to the next owner to deal with.
In my mind, I put the 944 with cars like the Jaguar XJS, Alfa GTV/6, Saab 900Turbo, Maserati Bi-Turbo, and others. These were all great semi-exotic cars in their own way but seem to have issues that keep them off the top list of appreciating collector cars. Enthusiasts still love them, though, no matter how much work they are to keep. Among this group, the 944 has a lot going for it. As we all know it is an awesome car.
In my mind, I put the 944 with cars like the Jaguar XJS, Alfa GTV/6, Saab 900Turbo, Maserati Bi-Turbo, and others. These were all great semi-exotic cars in their own way but seem to have issues that keep them off the top list of appreciating collector cars. Enthusiasts still love them, though, no matter how much work they are to keep. Among this group, the 944 has a lot going for it. As we all know it is an awesome car.
I think you hit the nail on the head however....surely people do not buy a USED car and an older one at that thinking NOTHING will have to be maintained.....am i giving people too much credit....I am aren't I LOL. My issue or rather confusion is not how old or even the price of maintenance....The problem I am getting at is if minor maintenance was done by each person $500 can go a good ways unless we talk about tires....Rebay fuel line kit $99, SDot 4 brake fluid 7-15. brake rebuild kit for all 4..$40, silicone Vacuum hose $40, Radiator hoses $220 roughly.....I mean we are buying a car here......if I was buying a used NSX all these same things would make sense. Used Mustang. Again I am probably expecting to much from the population but when all that was NEVER done....you end up doing all of that AND timing belt, seals, rollers, water pump, possibly tires depending on JUST how sorry the last person was...might as well get your sensors ready asap.....
10-22-2012, 04:12 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
I think most of the "cheap" maintenance things you mention arent cheap to the regular owner who has to pay for dealer or specialty shop repair labor. For example, I can see a shop/dealer charging over $1,000 to mount calipers, easy. So, they only fix what needs to be fixed for inspection or to keep the car running and hope there are no failures....drive it a while then sell it. The value in these old cars is in anyone who can take that $500 and fix everything themselves.
10-22-2012, 04:19 PM
#41
Pro
Thread Starter
I think most of the "cheap" maintenance things you mention arent cheap to the regular owner who has to pay for dealer or specialty shop repair labor. For example, I can see a shop/dealer charging over $1,000 to mount calipers, easy. So, they only fix what needs to be fixed for inspection or to keep the car running and hope there are no failures....drive it a while then sell it. The value in these old cars is in anyone who can take that $500 and fix everything themselves.
10-22-2012, 05:03 PM
#42
After 34 years of owning and wrenching on the 924/944 series cars you would think that one would have seen it all. I won't go into the usual mechanical neglect that is brought upon by either lack of knowledge or funds or both, but instead would like to offer a couple of major fails that I have seen in the last few years.
A young man buys a beautiful Garnett Red '87 944 from his mother. He wanted a Gaurds Red one. He proceeds to repaint it in Gaurds Red. To include doorhandles, bumperettes, stone gaurds, ect. About everyhing but the hood badge and rear spoiler. I'll admit it was Red and it was shiny and it must have taken the better part of an hour to accomplish. His next project was to improve the the sound system. This was done with quite some effort. It required cutting three inch holes in an otherwise perfect dash and door panels. But the holes were too big for the speakers on the dash so he moved over a couple inches and cut two smaller ones. I offered that he could use the two unused holes for cup holders. I think he thought I was serious. Next came sound-proofing. Apparently the sound levels in the late model 944's were quite high to him. So out came the carpet, rear seats and door panels (that never did get reinstalled) and in went atleast $800 worth of Dynamat. But he didn't stop there. It still wasn't quiet enough. He proceeded to fill the defrost ducts in the rear quater-panels with expanding foam of the home improvement type. I wished I could have been their to see that. It must have looked like something out of that old '60s' movie "The Blob" with that stuff trying to escape anywhere it could! The next step was to insulate the spare tire bin, inside and out, with some sort of tar material that never hardens. Just forever remains a sticky mess. I found this out the hard way while changing his fuel filter.
Now I'm not knock'n the kid for trying to improve or personlizing his ride, I do resto-mods on mine and others' 944's all the time, but somewhere along the line common sense and preserving the line must prevail if the 944 is going to be anything other than a footnote car in the Porsche Museum. It is up to us that truly love the car to preserve them, both mechanically and cosmeticly, otherwise they will all eventually wind up on E-bay for $500. - Dave
A young man buys a beautiful Garnett Red '87 944 from his mother. He wanted a Gaurds Red one. He proceeds to repaint it in Gaurds Red. To include doorhandles, bumperettes, stone gaurds, ect. About everyhing but the hood badge and rear spoiler. I'll admit it was Red and it was shiny and it must have taken the better part of an hour to accomplish. His next project was to improve the the sound system. This was done with quite some effort. It required cutting three inch holes in an otherwise perfect dash and door panels. But the holes were too big for the speakers on the dash so he moved over a couple inches and cut two smaller ones. I offered that he could use the two unused holes for cup holders. I think he thought I was serious. Next came sound-proofing. Apparently the sound levels in the late model 944's were quite high to him. So out came the carpet, rear seats and door panels (that never did get reinstalled) and in went atleast $800 worth of Dynamat. But he didn't stop there. It still wasn't quiet enough. He proceeded to fill the defrost ducts in the rear quater-panels with expanding foam of the home improvement type. I wished I could have been their to see that. It must have looked like something out of that old '60s' movie "The Blob" with that stuff trying to escape anywhere it could! The next step was to insulate the spare tire bin, inside and out, with some sort of tar material that never hardens. Just forever remains a sticky mess. I found this out the hard way while changing his fuel filter.
Now I'm not knock'n the kid for trying to improve or personlizing his ride, I do resto-mods on mine and others' 944's all the time, but somewhere along the line common sense and preserving the line must prevail if the 944 is going to be anything other than a footnote car in the Porsche Museum. It is up to us that truly love the car to preserve them, both mechanically and cosmeticly, otherwise they will all eventually wind up on E-bay for $500. - Dave
10-22-2012, 05:13 PM
#43
Pro
Thread Starter
After 34 years of owning and wrenching on the 924/944 series cars you would think that one would have seen it all. I won't go into the usual mechanical neglect that is brought upon by either lack of knowledge or funds or both, but instead would like to offer a couple of major fails that I have seen in the last few years.
A young man buys a beautiful Garnett Red '87 944 from his mother. He wanted a Gaurds Red one. He proceeds to repaint it in Gaurds Red. To include doorhandles, bumperettes, stone gaurds, ect. About everyhing but the hood badge and rear spoiler. I'll admit it was Red and it was shiny and it must have taken the better part of an hour to accomplish. His next project was to improve the the sound system. This was done with quite some effort. It required cutting three inch holes in an otherwise perfect dash and door panels. But the holes were too big for the speakers on the dash so he moved over a couple inches and cut two smaller ones. I offered that he could use the two unused holes for cup holders. I think he thought I was serious. Next came sound-proofing. Apparently the sound levels in the late model 944's were quite high to him. So out came the carpet, rear seats and door panels (that never did get reinstalled) and in went atleast $800 worth of Dynamat. But he didn't stop there. It still wasn't quiet enough. He proceeded to fill the defrost ducts in the rear quater-panels with expanding foam of the home improvement type. I wished I could have been their to see that. It must have looked like something out of that old '60s' movie "The Blob" with that stuff trying to escape anywhere it could! The next step was to insulate the spare tire bin, inside and out, with some sort of tar material that never hardens. Just forever remains a sticky mess. I found this out the hard way while changing his fuel filter.
Now I'm not knock'n the kid for trying to improve or personlizing his ride, I do resto-mods on mine and others' 944's all the time, but somewhere along the line common sense and preserving the line must prevail if the 944 is going to be anything other than a footnote car in the Porsche Museum. It is up to us that truly love the car to preserve them, both mechanically and cosmeticly, otherwise they will all eventually wind up on E-bay for $500. - Dave
A young man buys a beautiful Garnett Red '87 944 from his mother. He wanted a Gaurds Red one. He proceeds to repaint it in Gaurds Red. To include doorhandles, bumperettes, stone gaurds, ect. About everyhing but the hood badge and rear spoiler. I'll admit it was Red and it was shiny and it must have taken the better part of an hour to accomplish. His next project was to improve the the sound system. This was done with quite some effort. It required cutting three inch holes in an otherwise perfect dash and door panels. But the holes were too big for the speakers on the dash so he moved over a couple inches and cut two smaller ones. I offered that he could use the two unused holes for cup holders. I think he thought I was serious. Next came sound-proofing. Apparently the sound levels in the late model 944's were quite high to him. So out came the carpet, rear seats and door panels (that never did get reinstalled) and in went atleast $800 worth of Dynamat. But he didn't stop there. It still wasn't quiet enough. He proceeded to fill the defrost ducts in the rear quater-panels with expanding foam of the home improvement type. I wished I could have been their to see that. It must have looked like something out of that old '60s' movie "The Blob" with that stuff trying to escape anywhere it could! The next step was to insulate the spare tire bin, inside and out, with some sort of tar material that never hardens. Just forever remains a sticky mess. I found this out the hard way while changing his fuel filter.
Now I'm not knock'n the kid for trying to improve or personlizing his ride, I do resto-mods on mine and others' 944's all the time, but somewhere along the line common sense and preserving the line must prevail if the 944 is going to be anything other than a footnote car in the Porsche Museum. It is up to us that truly love the car to preserve them, both mechanically and cosmeticly, otherwise they will all eventually wind up on E-bay for $500. - Dave
I think you give a more than sufficient example of why these cars are bastardized. I supposed the "USED" word kind of makes some people think the worth is dirt and by that logic me cutting up a few mods will have no bearing on the price.....although bad planning will mess up ones personal value int he car. That said, He couldn't have liked the final result....
10-22-2012, 05:18 PM
#44
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I have to agree with the semi exotic outlook on these cars and others that fall into
the same category.
2 years ago I stumbled onto a 91 Lotus Elan, what a cool car and agein like the
944S I just got I always wanted one. Talk about total neglect, the engine oil
looked like it hadn't been changed in years, the turbo died because the oil drain
got coked up, the body work on the car was truely backyard in all respects.
The wipers didn't work the headlights didn't go up and down, the dash was
falling apart, the suspension was waaay out of alinment, the roof leaked like
crazy. The list goes on and on.
I mean come on this is a freaken Lotus, at least change the oil!!! After 2 years
it's sorted and a pretty darn cool car, I love it!
It's clear I learned my lesson, I know own a 944S. Glutten for punishment! LOL
Oh, it's looking like I'm not SOL, Justin will refund my money for the head.
Stand up guy for sure!!
Steve
the same category.
2 years ago I stumbled onto a 91 Lotus Elan, what a cool car and agein like the
944S I just got I always wanted one. Talk about total neglect, the engine oil
looked like it hadn't been changed in years, the turbo died because the oil drain
got coked up, the body work on the car was truely backyard in all respects.
The wipers didn't work the headlights didn't go up and down, the dash was
falling apart, the suspension was waaay out of alinment, the roof leaked like
crazy. The list goes on and on.
I mean come on this is a freaken Lotus, at least change the oil!!! After 2 years
it's sorted and a pretty darn cool car, I love it!
It's clear I learned my lesson, I know own a 944S. Glutten for punishment! LOL
Oh, it's looking like I'm not SOL, Justin will refund my money for the head.
Stand up guy for sure!!
Steve
10-22-2012, 05:22 PM
#45
Pro
Thread Starter
I have to agree with the semi exotic outlook on these cars and others that fall into
the same category.
2 years ago I stumbled onto a 91 Lotus Elan, what a cool car and agein like the
944S I just got I always wanted one. Talk about total neglect, the engine oil
looked like it hadn't been changed in years, the turbo died because the oil drain
got coked up, the body work on the car was truely backyard in all respects.
The wipers didn't work the headlights didn't go up and down, the dash was
falling apart, the suspension was waaay out of alinment, the roof leaked like
crazy. The list goes on and on.
I mean come on this is a freaken Lotus, at least change the oil!!! After 2 years
it's sorted and a pretty darn cool car, I love it!
It's clear I learned my lesson, I know own a 944S. Glutten for punishment! LOL
Oh, it's looking like I'm not SOL, Justin will refund my money for the head.
Stand up guy for sure!!
Steve
the same category.
2 years ago I stumbled onto a 91 Lotus Elan, what a cool car and agein like the
944S I just got I always wanted one. Talk about total neglect, the engine oil
looked like it hadn't been changed in years, the turbo died because the oil drain
got coked up, the body work on the car was truely backyard in all respects.
The wipers didn't work the headlights didn't go up and down, the dash was
falling apart, the suspension was waaay out of alinment, the roof leaked like
crazy. The list goes on and on.
I mean come on this is a freaken Lotus, at least change the oil!!! After 2 years
it's sorted and a pretty darn cool car, I love it!
It's clear I learned my lesson, I know own a 944S. Glutten for punishment! LOL
Oh, it's looking like I'm not SOL, Justin will refund my money for the head.
Stand up guy for sure!!
Steve