Timing Belt Idea - Am I crazy?
05-24-2012, 10:05 PM
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Timing Belt Idea - Am I crazy?
First some facts
1) 1983 944, stock about 100k.
2) Belts over 10 years old, updated pump from PO.
3) One can assume PO did pump, belts, rollers around 35k and about 12 years ago.
4) Slight leak from crank. Does not drip when parked.
5) I'm cheap
6) I'm poor
My plan is to change just the 2 belts and any rollers that sound or feel bad. Clark's garage says it can be done with the crank gears in place, so I'm thinking about doing it all without any of the special tools. Just new belts and the finger twist tension method and be done.
My goal is to drive without worrying about a broken belt. That's really it. I figure if anything else happens it will be ok, so long as there are no bent valves. I don't mind having to go back in later to recheck the belts or replace items that squeal, leak, etc.
You tell me. Crazy or not. I would really love to hear from anybody who has done it this way before, i.e no special tools, no crank gears off, and no tensioner tools.
1) 1983 944, stock about 100k.
2) Belts over 10 years old, updated pump from PO.
3) One can assume PO did pump, belts, rollers around 35k and about 12 years ago.
4) Slight leak from crank. Does not drip when parked.
5) I'm cheap
6) I'm poor
My plan is to change just the 2 belts and any rollers that sound or feel bad. Clark's garage says it can be done with the crank gears in place, so I'm thinking about doing it all without any of the special tools. Just new belts and the finger twist tension method and be done.
My goal is to drive without worrying about a broken belt. That's really it. I figure if anything else happens it will be ok, so long as there are no bent valves. I don't mind having to go back in later to recheck the belts or replace items that squeal, leak, etc.
You tell me. Crazy or not. I would really love to hear from anybody who has done it this way before, i.e no special tools, no crank gears off, and no tensioner tools.
05-24-2012, 10:55 PM
#5
Driving a time bomb, lol!
Cheap? Poor? Save up $489 and hit up 944online.com. They have a full kit, you really need to change out everything.
Look at it like this: $500 now, or $2k later? Pick.
You might be cheap or poor, but I don't think your stupid
And they're in Florida too btw...So parts for you will be uber fast.
Cheap? Poor? Save up $489 and hit up 944online.com. They have a full kit, you really need to change out everything.
Look at it like this: $500 now, or $2k later? Pick.
You might be cheap or poor, but I don't think your stupid
And they're in Florida too btw...So parts for you will be uber fast.
05-25-2012, 01:33 AM
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See this is really the part I'm trying to understand. What exactly would the risk be? I understand the belt may wear fast if I don't tention it well, but what would cause that $2k later? I'm not trying to be flip. Why change out everything? If the pump blows, I'm ok. If any balance stuff blows, I'm ok. Really besides the belt snapping, or I guess a timing roller coming apart, what else could cause any top end damage?
05-25-2012, 01:49 AM
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Well depending on how the waterpump goes, it could take the belt with it by ceasing and causing friction, or just coming completely apart, thus a lack of tension on the belt. The balance belt could snap and find its way between the timing belt and roller/gear, its a good thing to replace all wear items while your in there. By not doing a belt job properly, how much money are you really saving?
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05-25-2012, 01:59 AM
#9
flag, you're asking for a world of hurt. Go to youtube and type in 944 belt failure. or even 928 belt failure. Meister is right with all he said.
Everything in Porsche works with each other: you said pump goes, well everything what was said above counts. Roller stud? Can snap, and then you're screwed. Roller bad? It can seize, bend and then take out the belt, which takes out the valves and ish. Balance shaft? Sure, you can loose that belt, shakes the crap outta your engine taking out your motor mounts faster, but but...motor mounts are cheap! Yes, but like some things in the car...cheap yes, not cheap to get too! (rms, torsion bushings, etc etc)
too much risk for a small $500 reward? Not worth it. The 2k later is the cost to fix everything once valves and pistons collide. Hence, why it's "cheap" to get into Porsche, but not cheap to play. We STILL pay to play. I buy my parts all over, and sometimes right next to the guy in a 911 GTR. Porsche could give a crap less if it's 20 years old.
If you want a poor man's porsche, you really need a 924. Parts are cheap by comparison, and working on it is easier. A 914 is even easier, but you'll always be working on it since it's 40 something years old now.
totally, and completely up to you. You've been warned, you have the info and knowledge, up to you to do what cha gotta do, lol!
Everything in Porsche works with each other: you said pump goes, well everything what was said above counts. Roller stud? Can snap, and then you're screwed. Roller bad? It can seize, bend and then take out the belt, which takes out the valves and ish. Balance shaft? Sure, you can loose that belt, shakes the crap outta your engine taking out your motor mounts faster, but but...motor mounts are cheap! Yes, but like some things in the car...cheap yes, not cheap to get too! (rms, torsion bushings, etc etc)
too much risk for a small $500 reward? Not worth it. The 2k later is the cost to fix everything once valves and pistons collide. Hence, why it's "cheap" to get into Porsche, but not cheap to play. We STILL pay to play. I buy my parts all over, and sometimes right next to the guy in a 911 GTR. Porsche could give a crap less if it's 20 years old.
If you want a poor man's porsche, you really need a 924. Parts are cheap by comparison, and working on it is easier. A 914 is even easier, but you'll always be working on it since it's 40 something years old now.
totally, and completely up to you. You've been warned, you have the info and knowledge, up to you to do what cha gotta do, lol!
05-25-2012, 03:47 AM
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where does the 2k come form out of interest.
Surely most of the time the belt snaps you need a new head plus all the stuff in the kit from 944 online.
Head 200$ plus kit equals 700 maybe.
plus a day to do it all.
What am I missing?
Surely most of the time the belt snaps you need a new head plus all the stuff in the kit from 944 online.
Head 200$ plus kit equals 700 maybe.
plus a day to do it all.
What am I missing?
05-25-2012, 07:57 AM
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That is just the start of it. Not hard to damage something else, OR the extra $$ goes towards paying someone to swap the head. If the OP is reluctant to change some of the parts, it may be due to $ and/or lack of skill/tools. If changing the belt is a huge job, what happens with a catastrophic failure? If I ever had some bent valves, I can change the head, but a damaged piston would mean some professional intervention to help me. This would be even more important if it was my DD.
05-25-2012, 09:34 AM
#13
Proprietoristicly Refined
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First some facts
1) 1983 944, stock about 100k.
2) Belts over 10 years old, updated pump from PO.
3) One can assume PO did pump, belts, rollers around 35k and about 12 years ago.
4) Slight leak from crank. Does not drip when parked.
5) I'm cheap
6) I'm poor
My plan is to change just the 2 belts and any rollers that sound or feel bad. Clark's garage says it can be done with the crank gears in place, so I'm thinking about doing it all without any of the special tools. Just new belts and the finger twist tension method and be done.
My goal is to drive without worrying about a broken belt. That's really it. I figure if anything else happens it will be ok, so long as there are no bent valves. I don't mind having to go back in later to recheck the belts or replace items that squeal, leak, etc.
You tell me. Crazy or not. I would really love to hear from anybody who has done it this way before, i.e no special tools, no crank gears off, and no tensioner tools.
1) 1983 944, stock about 100k.
2) Belts over 10 years old, updated pump from PO.
3) One can assume PO did pump, belts, rollers around 35k and about 12 years ago.
4) Slight leak from crank. Does not drip when parked.
5) I'm cheap
6) I'm poor
My plan is to change just the 2 belts and any rollers that sound or feel bad. Clark's garage says it can be done with the crank gears in place, so I'm thinking about doing it all without any of the special tools. Just new belts and the finger twist tension method and be done.
My goal is to drive without worrying about a broken belt. That's really it. I figure if anything else happens it will be ok, so long as there are no bent valves. I don't mind having to go back in later to recheck the belts or replace items that squeal, leak, etc.
You tell me. Crazy or not. I would really love to hear from anybody who has done it this way before, i.e no special tools, no crank gears off, and no tensioner tools.
You read Clarks and the finger twist method is used by experienced mechanics.
BUT
Use the water pump pulley test as a 2nd test on the cam belt--no experience necessary.
You might also want to call IAN at 944online www.944online.com and ask if you should change the tension roller bolt. He is one of the only places to get the correct length bolt.
The bolt gets loose or bends.
The balance shaft belt will feel sloppy loose.
Before you remove the balance belt, examine the "give" on the belt. Remove the idle roller first.
The balance belt tension roller is turned CW to tension.
This keeps the belt under the WP pulley as far as possible.
Look at a belt roller diagram to see what I mean.
If you get sweaty palms and nightmares after you are done--repeat.
GL
John
05-25-2012, 12:05 PM
#14
Rainman
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someday, if i should ever have my motor apart again with the intention of using it again in the car (and not replace with something bigger 
) i will flycut the pistons so that if the belt breaks, the engine just freewheels and nothing bends or crashes...throw new belt on, keep going...a regular head milling job for clean gasket surface will more than make up for any lost compression.
) i will flycut the pistons so that if the belt breaks, the engine just freewheels and nothing bends or crashes...throw new belt on, keep going...a regular head milling job for clean gasket surface will more than make up for any lost compression.
05-25-2012, 01:18 PM
#15
gricrec....labor labor labor. much like owning a business, labor is the highest cost. 2k is just a ballpark number I've been told and agree with for engine failure. Come on...I called to see what a shop would charge just to install rear shocks (couldn't find a wrench and a jackstands), they wanted 90! I laughed, and called a friend and got it done.
rocket= we can DO this?! How is it I've never heard of this awesomeness before? I would love to have that type of peace of mind, even throw on a kevlar belt. Then all ya gotta worry about is rollers then!
rocket= we can DO this?! How is it I've never heard of this awesomeness before? I would love to have that type of peace of mind, even throw on a kevlar belt. Then all ya gotta worry about is rollers then!