Porsche chief drops plan for entry-level model - aka possible modern day 944
05-14-2012, 03:56 AM
#16
wait wait, I wouldnt call the car they were talking about a "modern day" 944.
A smaller boxster? I wouldnt buy that.
I WOULD buy a new 944/68 at the same price as a boxster.
porsche has disappointed me so. I mean they cayman cost MORE than the boxster?? since when does the hardtop version of a car cost more than the convertible????
then of course the hideous pamperera.
I pulled up behind a nissan GTR the other day (in my DD) and thought... if porsche made this id be all over it. needs a little work in the styling dept, but the basics are there.
I just want a front engine transaxle hatchback, sports car... is that too much to ask?
A smaller boxster? I wouldnt buy that.
I WOULD buy a new 944/68 at the same price as a boxster.
porsche has disappointed me so. I mean they cayman cost MORE than the boxster?? since when does the hardtop version of a car cost more than the convertible????
then of course the hideous pamperera.
I pulled up behind a nissan GTR the other day (in my DD) and thought... if porsche made this id be all over it. needs a little work in the styling dept, but the basics are there.
I just want a front engine transaxle hatchback, sports car... is that too much to ask?
05-14-2012, 10:08 AM
#17
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+1....
it is indeed the GTR/G-37/Genesis... that's doing way more than Porsche has done, to keep the 944/968 relevant...
do you all remember the 968 Clubsports ?
https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...y-968-a-2.html
just because they were nice enough to manufacture an update to the 944 for a couple of years, doesn't mean i'm not going to take exception when Porsche tries to dress up a car that's missing; 1. an airbag, 2. AC, 3. rear seat; and then acting like it's something truly unique and different.... then, dressing it up in the silliest way possible, all for a car goes maybe 1 mph faster ?? big deal. every other car manufacturer on the face of the earth (except Porsche??) knows that less is more. look at the badging of the 968 Turbo S... it's perfect.
they could have made their front-engine car program work.... if the Eagle Talon can be made with a turbo.... if a Subaru can be made with a turbo... look once more at the history of the 968.... they CS thing was done because the overpriced entry-level cars weren't selling..... the next step up from a normal 968 should have been a Turbo 968.... an shouldn't have cost 104 thousand dollars. so, yes, i'm calling Porsche out..... they really f_cked up their whole entry-level, front-engine sports car program...
and they're still doing it with the Boxster/Cayman.
to repeat an astute observation made by one of the Rennlisters;
since when does a hard top version of an entry-level cab car that comes with an engine that's exactly 5.8 % larger than their entry-level car deserve to be priced so much higher, and be considered to be in a class all by itself ??
half the **** they do is a significant insult to their loyal customers. situation normal for Porsche.
.
it is indeed the GTR/G-37/Genesis... that's doing way more than Porsche has done, to keep the 944/968 relevant...
do you all remember the 968 Clubsports ?
https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...y-968-a-2.html
just because they were nice enough to manufacture an update to the 944 for a couple of years, doesn't mean i'm not going to take exception when Porsche tries to dress up a car that's missing; 1. an airbag, 2. AC, 3. rear seat; and then acting like it's something truly unique and different.... then, dressing it up in the silliest way possible, all for a car goes maybe 1 mph faster ?? big deal. every other car manufacturer on the face of the earth (except Porsche??) knows that less is more. look at the badging of the 968 Turbo S... it's perfect.
they could have made their front-engine car program work.... if the Eagle Talon can be made with a turbo.... if a Subaru can be made with a turbo... look once more at the history of the 968.... they CS thing was done because the overpriced entry-level cars weren't selling..... the next step up from a normal 968 should have been a Turbo 968.... an shouldn't have cost 104 thousand dollars. so, yes, i'm calling Porsche out..... they really f_cked up their whole entry-level, front-engine sports car program...
and they're still doing it with the Boxster/Cayman.
to repeat an astute observation made by one of the Rennlisters;
since when does a hard top version of an entry-level cab car that comes with an engine that's exactly 5.8 % larger than their entry-level car deserve to be priced so much higher, and be considered to be in a class all by itself ??
half the **** they do is a significant insult to their loyal customers. situation normal for Porsche.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 05-14-2012 at 10:57 AM.
05-14-2012, 12:40 PM
#20
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I might get flamed but the BRZ is basically a modern day 944. It is the same performance as an S2, costs under $30k, and the center of gravity is better than the cayman. I really wish Porsche would make something to compete with it. They wouldn't even have to brand it under Porsche. 40k wouldnt be unreasonable. BMW has the 1 series priced from 30-50 and those are doing ok. I love 911's to death. They are my dream car. But there are WAY better routes to go with the technology we have now. The 911 is improved basically as far it can be isn't it?
05-14-2012, 12:57 PM
#21
Porsche has solid confirmation their buyers would walk if the 911 was no longer rear engined . they have no choice in their direction.
05-14-2012, 01:28 PM
#24
05-14-2012, 01:35 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
At Petit Le Mans a few years ago, I remember hearing Wolfgar (head of Porsche something NA) describe "ze ladder" after someone asked about a Boxter with a larger engine/turbo or something of that nature. At the top was the 911 and the turbo/GT3 varients. And at the bottom was the lowly Boxster with finite steps in between. No room for fun.
05-14-2012, 01:46 PM
#26
Porsche was not likely to really do the lesser priced car anyway with the VW tie in and even more coming.
What does matter the most is that without the Cayenne, and the Panamera next, then there is likely no Porsche, certainly not as we know it.
The 944 did its job and kept them in business and got the factory modernized. The 911 has done its part. But now in this market if they had not got the Cayenne going, then this would be academic as a major brand consideration.
What does matter the most is that without the Cayenne, and the Panamera next, then there is likely no Porsche, certainly not as we know it.
The 944 did its job and kept them in business and got the factory modernized. The 911 has done its part. But now in this market if they had not got the Cayenne going, then this would be academic as a major brand consideration.
Sure, the Cayene saved Porsche. But which Porsche did it save? If prices wouldn't have skyrocketed, I wouldn't've cared if Porsche went bust in 1999. Othe than the Carrera GT, and a Weissach-direct Cup car, they haven't made any real Porsche IMHO since then. And certainly nothing innovative.
I agree with the 911 as well. No longer a 911, lose it. There was a time when that chassis was an advantage. Today, with modern suspension technology, etc., it isn't. Not really. The only reason they still make the 911 is because its "like the old one". Which it isn't, other than in name, to me.
To me they're just a bunch of politicaians selling "the good 'ol days" to those who don't know better.
If I were them I'd scratch all production cars by 2017 and start over completely, and do something innovative. All they're doing is resting on their laurels. Ever wonder why all their ads incorporate older cars? Because the new cars can't sell themselves. It's the old cars selling the new stuff. All they're selling is sentiment.
The only Porsche I'd get now is a Cup Car straight from Weissach.
Just my thoughts.
Take care!
05-14-2012, 01:51 PM
#27
Rainman
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So howabout a 370Z in the low $30s?
There is simply no market spot for a low-end Porsche below the Boxster...too much other good competition.
Remember...the 944 came out and competed with the Corvette. Nowadays a stock Corvette will put a base Carrera to shame...they wouldn't sell something at half the price of the C2 to deliver that kind of performance.
There is simply no market spot for a low-end Porsche below the Boxster...too much other good competition.
Remember...the 944 came out and competed with the Corvette. Nowadays a stock Corvette will put a base Carrera to shame...they wouldn't sell something at half the price of the C2 to deliver that kind of performance.
05-14-2012, 02:06 PM
#29
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Do you mean a Vette put a Carrera to shame price vs performance and quality or just like acceleration and handling? A 911 is just as fast 0-60 isnt it? 4.3ish for both? I'd imagine the Carerra would post better numbers than the Corvette with average drivers. The Corvette is hard to launch. The Corvette interior is also sub par. Although I do agree band for buck, Corvette wins.
Last edited by mangosmoothie16; 05-14-2012 at 02:59 PM.
05-15-2012, 04:19 AM
#30
Late Porkchops
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Porsche "as we know it" IMHO is long gone, last existed in 1998. Has had a few gasps since then, but more or less 1998 they went totally different. Plans for the following years Le Mans car were canned for the Cayenne project. To me, all they make now are glorified Lexuses. And I'd sooner buy a rusted out 356 than anything the dealer offers.
Sure, the Cayene saved Porsche. But which Porsche did it save? If prices wouldn't have skyrocketed, I wouldn't've cared if Porsche went bust in 1999. Othe than the Carrera GT, and a Weissach-direct Cup car, they haven't made any real Porsche IMHO since then. And certainly nothing innovative.
I agree with the 911 as well. No longer a 911, lose it. There was a time when that chassis was an advantage. Today, with modern suspension technology, etc., it isn't. Not really. The only reason they still make the 911 is because its "like the old one". Which it isn't, other than in name, to me.
To me they're just a bunch of politicaians selling "the good 'ol days" to those who don't know better.
If I were them I'd scratch all production cars by 2017 and start over completely, and do something innovative. All they're doing is resting on their laurels. Ever wonder why all their ads incorporate older cars? Because the new cars can't sell themselves. It's the old cars selling the new stuff. All they're selling is sentiment.
The only Porsche I'd get now is a Cup Car straight from Weissach.
Just my thoughts.
Take care!
Sure, the Cayene saved Porsche. But which Porsche did it save? If prices wouldn't have skyrocketed, I wouldn't've cared if Porsche went bust in 1999. Othe than the Carrera GT, and a Weissach-direct Cup car, they haven't made any real Porsche IMHO since then. And certainly nothing innovative.
I agree with the 911 as well. No longer a 911, lose it. There was a time when that chassis was an advantage. Today, with modern suspension technology, etc., it isn't. Not really. The only reason they still make the 911 is because its "like the old one". Which it isn't, other than in name, to me.
To me they're just a bunch of politicaians selling "the good 'ol days" to those who don't know better.
If I were them I'd scratch all production cars by 2017 and start over completely, and do something innovative. All they're doing is resting on their laurels. Ever wonder why all their ads incorporate older cars? Because the new cars can't sell themselves. It's the old cars selling the new stuff. All they're selling is sentiment.
The only Porsche I'd get now is a Cup Car straight from Weissach.
Just my thoughts.
Take care!
And I dont necessarily disagree with you either
. My statements were just to shed light on where Porsche is today as a company and relative to the products and the new products (or lack thereof) coming forward from Porsche. More specifically why there was not going to be any new entry level Porsches introduced.
I dont necessarily agree with them either. But it does not matter. This is just where they are now. Their products that are now the main lines for the marque are far from the sports car core to us. But to them, it is still shades of the same. Porsche engineeriing, Porsche performance, etc. Make sales and make sales and then cost is what it is all about now.
The retro movement thing gelled up and got bigger at just at the right time ( late 1980s, 1990's, 2000's) to save the 911 and Porsche. It started big with Harley first, but then spread through out the auto business and it found a good audience at Porsche. Chevy got in, Ford too, Nissan some, etc.
Right now VW is in the drivers seat of the actual production of cars until the lawsuits and that are worked out and the remaining pieces of Porsche are picked up per any agreement that they might have.
At this point I imagine the Porsche original stake owners are just trying to get out with some money left for them. Hard to think that, but it happens.