Installing 944S2 - Turbo hubs and brakes on a 924S
04-29-2012, 05:53 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Installing 944S2 - Turbo hubs and brakes on a 924S
Hello,
I would like to install 944 S2 brakes and hubs on my track day 924S.
What parts are needed, and what wheels can then be used ?
I would like to use 16" Fuchs. Is it possible ?
I would like to install 944 S2 brakes and hubs on my track day 924S.
What parts are needed, and what wheels can then be used ?
I would like to use 16" Fuchs. Is it possible ?
Last edited by stv951; 04-29-2012 at 06:30 AM.
04-29-2012, 08:28 PM
#2
You need everything, the struts with late style strut bearings, the hubs, rotors, brake calipers. you will also lose the speedo as the S2 hubs have no way to drive it, you will have to use late offset rims, the fuchs are early offset only, so they will not work, the 924s is very very sensitive to offset up front, its really tight up there and so only a 52mm offset wheel up to 7" wide will work. 225mm wide tires fit sometimes on 16's, but usually rub on the spring.
Just hit rennbay and pick up the wilwood conversion for $750. It will be easier so much easier and 15"+ late offset rims will still fit on the car. Throw some Hoosiers on the stock 15" phone dials and go rip up the track! they are one of the lightest rims you can get for the car.
http://www.rennbay.com/944-big-brake-kit-p-83.html
Just hit rennbay and pick up the wilwood conversion for $750. It will be easier so much easier and 15"+ late offset rims will still fit on the car. Throw some Hoosiers on the stock 15" phone dials and go rip up the track! they are one of the lightest rims you can get for the car.
http://www.rennbay.com/944-big-brake-kit-p-83.html
04-29-2012, 09:17 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Don't bother with the Willwoods on a track car, they have zero advantage in stopping fade and very little improvement in braking.
iirc you should just need the 86 turbo calipers, rotors hubs and spindles. They calipers are the same as S2 calipers but the 86 has the early offset rotors, hubs and spindles so they would match right up. You might need a few other small parts from an 86 such as the bias valve, rear brake spacers and front flexible brake lines. I'm not that familiar with the 924S set-up but the parts I've listed would upgrade an 86 early offset na to 86 early offset turbo brakes.
Saying all that you do know that many people here race with stock na brakes, when working correctly they are very good.
16in (951) Fuchs will work fine with the 86 early offset turbo brake set up mentioned above.
iirc you should just need the 86 turbo calipers, rotors hubs and spindles. They calipers are the same as S2 calipers but the 86 has the early offset rotors, hubs and spindles so they would match right up. You might need a few other small parts from an 86 such as the bias valve, rear brake spacers and front flexible brake lines. I'm not that familiar with the 924S set-up but the parts I've listed would upgrade an 86 early offset na to 86 early offset turbo brakes.
Saying all that you do know that many people here race with stock na brakes, when working correctly they are very good.
16in (951) Fuchs will work fine with the 86 early offset turbo brake set up mentioned above.
04-29-2012, 09:38 PM
#5
Mag the 924s uses the early components but a late offset rim to clear the fender. I think hes looking to upgrade since his 924S has an S2 motor swapped in it according to his sig. Are the NA brakes good enough for that?
04-29-2012, 09:55 PM
#6
As stated, the 924s uses early offset suspension and late offset wheels. Stick with 7in wide late wheels.
Did you guys know the oem brakes on a 944 are close in diameter to a 350hp 2004 gto? The rears are actually larger. The wilwoods may not add much by way of fade but they do offer easy brake pad changes and reduced weight. A guy on 924board.org claims they work well for his 3.0 track car.
Did you guys know the oem brakes on a 944 are close in diameter to a 350hp 2004 gto? The rears are actually larger. The wilwoods may not add much by way of fade but they do offer easy brake pad changes and reduced weight. A guy on 924board.org claims they work well for his 3.0 track car.
04-29-2012, 10:07 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
Still, 86 turbo brakes should still work in this application though you will need 16in late offset wheels. The na brakes are probably worth an upgrade considering the extra power but if the weight is low enough on this track car they might work fine. Ive no experience on tracking the S, maybe someone who has will chirp in.
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04-29-2012, 10:10 PM
#8
From lemming who later upgraded to 968 brakes and forced induction (and now a v8)
I've been meaning to do a write-up on these brakes, but just haven't gotten around to it.
First, the difference is night and day. You will get a number of people on this board who will write that the NA brakes are fine as long as you use good pads. Well, I was running good pads (KFPs, Hawks) prior to the upgrade and still think that there is a night and day difference.
When I first ordered the brakes from Travis, I went with the most aggressive "A" compound that he offers. What I found was that I could easily lock up the front wheels, so the car was out balance brake wise. At that point I was running KFP golds. For the next track day, I put Hawk blues in the back and the balance was better but still not enough bite in the back. After consulting with Travis, I ordered the "E" pads to see if I could balance the car out. At first, I hated the E pads, not nearly as aggressive early on as the A pads. However, by the end of the first session, I was realizing that the car was stopping amazingly well and was well balanced (A pads in front, Hawk Blues in back). I just got my second set of E pads in the mail yesterday.
I'm very happy with the upgrade, especially since it allowed me to stay with my stock 15" wheels. Hopefully I will be putting an adjustable brake bias system on the car latter this year, at that time I will likely go back to the A pads and add more rear bias to balance the car.
One thing that I really like about the Wilwoods is the ease of changing the pads. Pull one pin, remove pads, compress pistons, intall pads, reinsert pins (about 5 minutes at most).
One thing I don't like about the Wilwoods is that the pads do not use all of the rotor. There is a good 1/2" or so on the inside of the rotor that the pads do not touch, they are just not wide enough. I'm guessing that this is a compromise to get the right caliper that will fit with the stock 15" wheels.
As for stopping power, well in my 2600lb 924S3, I apply the brakes at 160' going into turn 10a at Road Atlanta at speeds around 140 mph
First, the difference is night and day. You will get a number of people on this board who will write that the NA brakes are fine as long as you use good pads. Well, I was running good pads (KFPs, Hawks) prior to the upgrade and still think that there is a night and day difference.
When I first ordered the brakes from Travis, I went with the most aggressive "A" compound that he offers. What I found was that I could easily lock up the front wheels, so the car was out balance brake wise. At that point I was running KFP golds. For the next track day, I put Hawk blues in the back and the balance was better but still not enough bite in the back. After consulting with Travis, I ordered the "E" pads to see if I could balance the car out. At first, I hated the E pads, not nearly as aggressive early on as the A pads. However, by the end of the first session, I was realizing that the car was stopping amazingly well and was well balanced (A pads in front, Hawk Blues in back). I just got my second set of E pads in the mail yesterday.
I'm very happy with the upgrade, especially since it allowed me to stay with my stock 15" wheels. Hopefully I will be putting an adjustable brake bias system on the car latter this year, at that time I will likely go back to the A pads and add more rear bias to balance the car.
One thing that I really like about the Wilwoods is the ease of changing the pads. Pull one pin, remove pads, compress pistons, intall pads, reinsert pins (about 5 minutes at most).
One thing I don't like about the Wilwoods is that the pads do not use all of the rotor. There is a good 1/2" or so on the inside of the rotor that the pads do not touch, they are just not wide enough. I'm guessing that this is a compromise to get the right caliper that will fit with the stock 15" wheels.
As for stopping power, well in my 2600lb 924S3, I apply the brakes at 160' going into turn 10a at Road Atlanta at speeds around 140 mph
04-29-2012, 10:18 PM
#9
Brembos at all 4 corners will still be best but will require more parts. The hardest will be the bias valve. The 924s has no place for one. The last person I talked to that did the swap said he used the rear brake line from a 951. The other option is plumbing an aftermarket one.
04-30-2012, 02:03 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I am more confused now as to what would be the best fit.
Please remember that i would like to use Fuchs wheels on my car 15s or 16s.
What do you guys end up with ?
Please remember that i would like to use Fuchs wheels on my car 15s or 16s.
What do you guys end up with ?
04-30-2012, 07:42 AM
#11
Nordschleife Master
If you are set on fitting the Brembo S2/Turbo brakes you need to source 86 Turbo components (calipers, hubs, spindles, etc) and again late offset wheels in at least a 16" size.
The only way the early offset wheels like the Fuchs will fit is to fit fender extensions.
04-30-2012, 08:56 AM
#12
Brembos are a viable option, just more work.
You "can" run fuch wheels but it really limits your tire size. Late offset wheels let you run a 225.
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...he-wheels.html
You "can" run fuch wheels but it really limits your tire size. Late offset wheels let you run a 225.
https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...he-wheels.html
04-30-2012, 09:30 AM
#13
Nordschleife Master
thirdgenbird, the iirc the only Fuchs that will fit over Brembo brakes are the 951 16in Fuchs and I'm pretty sure these would be too wide for the 924S. Some of the narrower 911 Fuchs may fit with narrow tires and creative use of camber but you will never get brembos under them, not even in a 16" size, I've tried.
04-30-2012, 10:14 AM
#14
You are right, I should have stated that brembos and fuch wheels are mutually exclusive. The wilwoods would fit under the 911 wheels but you would be making sacrifices.
Here are the options:
Brembos and late wheels
Wilwoods and late wheels
Wilwoods and narrow (16x6) early wheels (rubbing likely, not reccomended)
Here are the options:
Brembos and late wheels
Wilwoods and late wheels
Wilwoods and narrow (16x6) early wheels (rubbing likely, not reccomended)
Last edited by thirdgenbird; 04-30-2012 at 10:42 AM.
