HI Guys (&gals?)
I'm new to the forum; I've lurked here a few times, but still don’t know my whole way around yet....

I just became a member today mainly to view the pictures and classifieds.

I am currently Active Duty Navy and I will be separating in May and coming back stateside. (Currently living in Naples, Italy)

I am looking for a 944 or 928 for when I get back and I'd like your opinions on the subject of 944 vs. 928 driving experience. My dad had an 85.5 944 for 13 years and recently sold it (I was pissed, he didn’t even ask me). I am a driving enthusiast and the overall driving experience is what I am after. I'll have $10k in my pocket and for that $$ I am looking at 951's and 928s... Unfortunately no 928's with a manual. I owned a '94 Subaru SVX while I was in CA, which are only automatics, and I missed my Prelude's 5 speed. But I found I could still enjoy the car pretty thoroughly when I’d turn in to an off-ramp and stomp on the gas through the apex to open up that wonderfully torquey 3.0l flat 6. So, long story short, I think I might be just as happy with a 928 slushbox V-8 as a 951 or 944.

I'll have a long highway commute to school everyday and no matter how much I would love to get into Autocross and racing, I'll probably just use the Bike for that...

Your opinions matter! Especially if you have owned both.

 

I have owned a 944 street car still have an 944 race car and 951 street car. My parents own a 91 928 S4.

There is a big difference between the cars. The 928 is big GT car. Luxury, comfort, and speed all rolled into one. They are not tossble, but can be hustled through corners. They are more complex and that means more prone to systems failures because they have more systems to fail. Their V8's are nice motors, but are not great on fuel. 15-20 mpg is about all you get. 10k probaby will get you a pretty ratty example.

On the 944 is on the far end of the specturm. Very torquy 2.5L motor, but not fast in a straight line by today's standards. Rather nimble and more minimalist than the rest. Great driver and great car at speed, but won't win any drag races. Up at 70 mph it can accelerate pretty good though. Better than alot of other cars at that speed. For 10k you can get a very nice car and keep lost of cash in your pocket for repairs or other things. high 27-30 mpg on the hwy.


The 951... great car. Just as fast as 928, but does require more revs and more gearbox work to get there. Turbo boost is fun when you want it, but can be annoying because while it has ok torque the power below 3000 rpm feels weak compared to the power above 3000. The difference is staggering and it makes the 951 feel slower at lower RPM than it really is. With mods you can lots of power and speed. Done right it costs money and works. Done poorly is is cheap and unreliable. As for fuel mileages. Upper 20's on the hwy if you stay out of the boost. However even driving hard on the street I can't get less than 20 mpg. 10k will get you a solid car, but you will need to look closely.


There is also the 944S, 944S2 and 968. These are all non turbo cars with 2.5 to 3.0L 16v engines.

 

Seems to me that you could buy a pretty tight 951 (modified?) in the $7-$9k range with a few dollars left in your pocket.

 

Thanks M758! BTW, what option code is that?

I meant to pretty much include all transaxle cars, should have put that in the post... Your post is pretty much what i have been thinking and reading...

I think i'll be sticking with a 85.5+ Na ... And like you said, have $$ left over for maybe some mods...

 

If I was looking for an 80's front-engined Porsche that is reliable, enthusiastic to drive and won't cost a bunch in maintenance I wouldn't be looking at 928's or 951's. Drive a 944S2 and enjoy all the benefits and half the headaches.

 

A good 928 is no more problem to own than an NA in my mind. Naturally this being a 944 board there will be disagreement and a lot of that will be influcend by some people's experiences with bad cars, bad wrenches, bad luck, etc. The 928 can also be had as a 1978 and naturally the older cars are going to have some other issues. A solid 32 valve 928 however can be solid and easy to live with as can a well sorted older model.

While likely cheaper to own and maintain than a lot of cars, the 944NA has it's share of issues. A 928 might have more gizmos to go wrong and it can be harder to find an experienced shop to work on them if you need one. IMO the first thing is to decide what car you'd rather own and then see if you can afford a good example and the initial catch-up maintenance. Both cars are a waste of money compared to a good used Camry or a bus pass so it's really about what you want to own and be proud of.

Then finding a good car becomes the problem. A bad example of either car will make you miserable and broke. I suppose the 944 being more common affords a better chance of finding a good 'un.

Cheers,
-Joel.

 

Welcome to the forum...I too am a newbie to the 944 primarily bought the car to race and I also am prior service, I work for the Navy now.

Get yourself a really nice 944 or 968 and then if the motor quits do an LS1 swap...then u have a supercar for <$20K

 

There ARE manual 928s out there of all model years, you just have to look harder.

That said, $10k will buy you a nice 944 with change left over. $10k would buy a nice old 928 (77-84) or a decent 85-87ish. The GT/GTS should not be in that price range. Maintenance is expensive on either, with the 928 being more.

 

M758 = Turbo S option code. Used on the Silverrose Turbo S cars in 1988. My turbo S does not cary the M758 code. Just M030 and all the Turbo S options. It a guards red with tan.

 

Thanks for all the replys.
I especially like the bus pass comparision... I wish there were a "like" button on forums.

I dont want you guys to think i am getting into this blind. I've done my research and have been looking these cars since November when I decided officailly to get out of the Navy.
I've had a subscription to excellence mag. for a few years now and read the buyers guides over and over. I know whats out there and what I can afford... BUT after I bought my Buell I learned the value of forums... (good and bad) and i really appreciate everyones input!

I think what i am really looking for is people to talk me out of the gas guzzling 928. I've found a few S4's out there in my pricerange, and I cant stop looking at them! 300+ hp sounds like alot of fun, and the Interiors of the 928's seem to be in better shape in general. I think that boils down to the owners perceving them more valuable (which they tend to be) than the typical 944 owner. Which also brings in more $$$$... More money means a better likelyhood of preventative maintenance completed on time and often. Looks can be decieving--- A well cared for 944 (exterior + interior) only requires access to a hose and vacum. If you see what I mean...

 

My parents 91 928 S4 is great car. Low miles at 50-60k. I took it on Porsche club drive a few years a back and really liked it. Great GT car in the spirit of the word. Grand Touring. You could cover alot of miles at a very high average speed with ease in car like that. Not as nimble as 944/951, but gobs and gobs of torque and if you push it the car will handle very well in corners. It does not crave twisty bits, but can be run throuhg them. What it likes is fast sweeping corners. Ahh to run 130-140 mph between cities for 4hrs at time. That is where the 928 excels.

My Turbo S makes 250 hp in stock trim and since it is a lighter is every bit as fast as the 928. It is more nimble and more racy. Still it is not as comfortable and it takes alot more gear changes to ensure you stay in the meat of the powerband. The 928 has enough power everywhere. The 951 you end a twisty drive with your heart racing thinking "That was fun!".. In the 928 you exit the car breathing calmly going "That was easy!"

The 944 NA as the 951 character, but will less power. Both are great hwy cars. The non turbo cars however are better at stop and go traffic as not being able to get into the boost can get annoying.

Personally I like my Turbo S the best of all 3 cars. I can get nice fuel mileage on my long hwy commute. The car is powerfull enough to keep up with most cars on the road. The chassis is light enough to be fun and the mixture of complex vs simple is enough to make it easy to maintain. When want car for the twisty back grounds it is great.

Now if I often had chance to run between cities with no speed limits and had the $$$$ to keep the gas tank full a 928 would be ideal. My father (who came from 951) always say the 928 comes in to is own at 80 mph.

 

Gas mileage is a factor. The 928 can get decent mileage if you drive it carefully, but they are fun to romp on and the simple fact is that a 300HP car can use a lot more gas than a 150HP car.

I do not feel that 928 maintenance is that much more than 944, you do have twice as many plug wires and in some cases two distributor caps, but the 928 timing belt is more robust and longer lasting in general. (The 944's is easier to change but narrow, so you change it quite often.) For the 928 there is a nice upgrade to an Audi tensioner that provides a modern belt tensioning system rather than the oil-filled dampener/tensioner that comes stock. In some years the stock tbelt system has a dashboard tensioner fault indicator though. That helps, as does any system that prevents the belt from being too tight when cold or too loose when warm. The stock 944 system has no way to adjust for engine temp or belt wear.
Even the spring tensioner in the 944 is not compensating, the system is changed significantly in the 968 and a modern dampened tensioner piston system is added.

Some of the 944 nags like sunroof gears, separating rear hatch glass, clutch rubber center failure are not evident in the 928. The 928 has no balance shafts to have belt issues, seal leakage, issues from incorrect balance shaft belt alignment, etc. In general I feel the 928 has better switchgear.
The 928 can have problems with the door locks, I have not experienced this with the 944. I recommend a good keyless entry system to reduce wear on the lock parts (a little zinc part of the key lock cylinder breaks that connects the lock barrel to the mechanism that lifts the lock pins, which is not used by the power system.) Wiring issues are common to both cars and IMO have a lot to do with aftermarket add-ons, water intrusion, etc. The 928 ECU is more prone to failure if not updated, but the 928 does not have the DME relay issues (easily solved) of the 944. The 928 ECU is less of a problem if one does not jumpstart the car. The 32v 928s have a MAF, which is nice. It is expensive to replace but not expensive to have rebuilt. Better IMO overall than the AFM in the 944 series. Both cars catch fire if properly neglected, but the 928 has the option of a catalytic converter fire if run on 1/2 the cylinders due to an ignition fault or the like. It puzzles me that people let them run when half the motor is down but you never know.

 

wow.

When I started this thread I didnt think I'd get nearly the amount of information you all have supplied. THANKS! Big time.

From all of your advice, I think I'll keep looking at 928's as well. I just found an '87 that looks like a good buy for $8500. I am waiting on some more pictures and maintenance records... We'll see...

I think what this is going to boil down to is much like any other used car. You have to find the one that has been taken care of properly.

Thanks again for all your advice.

 

I have owned many of both. The 944 is a driver's car, the 928 is just a cruiser. I don't like the manual gearbox and clutch in a 928, but then again I don't like the MB automatic 4-speed either. The biggest problem with a 928 is repairs - they're too often, too expensive, and too hard. But if you're talking about a 944 turbo, it might be the same story. Overall I say it's still a little easier to work on and a little cheaper. I have so many thoughts to share and it's so late at night, I need to hit the sack so let me just say, the only redeeming quality to a 928S4 (and everything I say is subjective, of course) is the exterior looks and the sound of the engine. The 944 has very few detrimental qualities.

Either way you go, make sure to get a PPI, show the car to the people on rennlist for input, and don't rush into buying one that isn't exactly what you want. Good luck, and thanks for your service.

 

dude, honestly...you just have to drive both and figure out what's best for you, your wallet and your peace of mind.

I've never driven a 928, but have been at the stop light next to many. Trust me when I say the stereo (if on) gets shut off, and I roll my windows down. They have such a complex angry growl that is like a Ferrari to me, but a much lower pitch. (Watch the clip from Weird Science, good sheet).

I've had the comparison bug as well. Had the chance to talk to a German Indy shop owner that is, actually German, and actually worked in Zuffenhausen for Porsche. Doesn't get much better than that for info. His input was simple:

Maintaining it is expensive (it IS a supercar, so expect supercar prices for everything).

Pure and simple. The NA will bring you the most fun, best bang for the buck reliable everyday driver. (if you bring everything current). Parts are plentiful, it's easy to work on (mostly, but compared to all other Porsches, it really is, minus older 911's of course). Rule of thumb? If it's too slow for you, you find more corners.

The Turbo is a whole different ballgame. They are much tougher to work on (smaller spaces, more vacuum lines, intercooler, turbo, etc). Slightly more in cost to run, but holy crap a kick in the crotch to drive. If you keep it stock, it's just about as reliable as the NA (you just add turbo and intercooler work on top of all the other NA work to be done). 951 has a great top end.

S2 (whomever said that above is a smart man). The S2 really is the best all around. You just add the timing chain as part of the worry on top of all the NA stuff. The S2 vs. 951 on the street/corners is the same. You just lose that 3rd gear drop to take off (where the 951 will smoke ya). So, S2's are great.

Most all of the watercooled Porsches are 17-30 mpg. It all depends on where your foot is at. The 5 speeds will get slightly better mpg. Then again, it depends if you give a rip or not. (V8 vs. V4). Every model has it's demons. The cars are just like women; Just find the one you really like, can handle, $$, and deal with the crap she'll give you. So, ya gotta ask yourself, "What do I want this car to do for me". Find that out, and you can narrow the model lines down.

Me? Current Na. Automatic. Still fun to drive. Next one? 951. Slightly modded. I think it's badass that I'll have a car that is faster than a brand new Cayman, faster than 911's, and will be a fraction of the cost. Dog the watercooled all ya want purists, it keeps the cost down for those of us in the know