Tire recommendations
03-29-2011, 08:58 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I mostly do autocross with the local PCA chapter (CVR). It's pretty laid back and never too crowded which makes it a lot of fun. The first event is on April 17 in Hartford. Here's a link to the website with the dates of all the events:http://cvrpca.org/onthetrack.php?id=2
They'll probably put you in the "Other" class though. Since your car doesn't have a Porsche engine anymore.
They'll probably put you in the "Other" class though. Since your car doesn't have a Porsche engine anymore.
03-30-2011, 12:11 AM
#18
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here are some pics of the new parts. The motor is an 11" Warp HV DC motor. I made a custom mount, but it sits on the original motor mounts. The second attachment shows the battery pack. It's in the rear where the gas tank was. The two groups of batteries straddle the transaxle.
Dave Cover
PS I tried to insert the pictures directly but couldn't figure it out, so I attached them instead.
Dave Cover
PS I tried to insert the pictures directly but couldn't figure it out, so I attached them instead.
04-17-2011, 04:06 PM
#20
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry for the delay, but I finally got my tires. Ended up with Kohmo Ecsta ASX, 225x55 16 and 245x50 16 combo. They were just about the only ones I could find in those sizes for a reasonable price. I hope they will give me a good compromise for autocross, land speed racing and daily driving.
Here's a picture. Yes, she is a dirty girl, and it's early spring after a long snowy winter, so the grass won't be green for a while. But she's on the road and getting better all the time.
Dave C
Here's a picture. Yes, she is a dirty girl, and it's early spring after a long snowy winter, so the grass won't be green for a while. But she's on the road and getting better all the time.
Dave C
04-17-2011, 09:38 PM
#22
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see the next autocross in Hartford is 5/22, I've got in on the calendar. I can't wait to see how the new tires handle. The other problem though is weight. To get my voltage up I'm going to add another 150 lbs in NiCads. Unfortunately, I'm going the wrong direction, I need to find ways to lose weight. The car is still within it's GVW, but barely. Can't wait for Lithium!
DAC
DAC
04-18-2011, 01:44 AM
#23
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary Canada
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice to see another electric, I'm using the same motor in my '86 but a Soliton1 instead of the Zilla. How did the weight distribution end up with all the cells in the back? I'm planning on ~1/3 of my batteries up front (Headway or A123).
Any more pics of the motor mount?
Any more pics of the motor mount?
04-18-2011, 02:01 PM
#24
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Weight distribution was balanced a while ago, but I don't know where it is now. To get the car registered I had to be within manufacturers specs, which meant I had to remove some cells from the back. Since then I've added equal numbers to the front and back, so it should be close.
You're going with Lithium? I'm jealous! Have you bought them already? What size cells? How big will you pack be (KWH)? Have you figured out where you're going to place them?
My motor sits on the original mounts. I had a 2 piece "clam shell" clamp made to fit around the motor and then welded it up a mount. I can provide more pictures when I get home.
With an 11 inch motor there is a real challenge to fit the motor above the cross member without raising the torque tube too much. It just barely fits. But on the positive side, you don't have to worry about torque twisting the motor in it's mount.
In the attached picture you can see how the top half of the clam shell is bolted to the rest of the mount with 4 allen bolts. You can also see the pads that rest on the original motor mounts. The rest of the mount is just connecting the bottom half of the clam shell to the mount pads. Ignore the messy wiring.
Do you have any pictures yet?
DAC
www.evalbum.com/2149
You're going with Lithium? I'm jealous! Have you bought them already? What size cells? How big will you pack be (KWH)? Have you figured out where you're going to place them?
My motor sits on the original mounts. I had a 2 piece "clam shell" clamp made to fit around the motor and then welded it up a mount. I can provide more pictures when I get home.
With an 11 inch motor there is a real challenge to fit the motor above the cross member without raising the torque tube too much. It just barely fits. But on the positive side, you don't have to worry about torque twisting the motor in it's mount.
In the attached picture you can see how the top half of the clam shell is bolted to the rest of the mount with 4 allen bolts. You can also see the pads that rest on the original motor mounts. The rest of the mount is just connecting the bottom half of the clam shell to the mount pads. Ignore the messy wiring.
Do you have any pictures yet?
DAC
www.evalbum.com/2149
04-18-2011, 10:52 PM
#25
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary Canada
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Weight distribution was balanced a while ago, but I don't know where it is now. To get the car registered I had to be within manufacturers specs, which meant I had to remove some cells from the back. Since then I've added equal numbers to the front and back, so it should be close.
You're going with Lithium? I'm jealous! Have you bought them already? What size cells? How big will you pack be (KWH)? Have you figured out where you're going to place them?
My motor sits on the original mounts. I had a 2 piece "clam shell" clamp made to fit around the motor and then welded it up a mount. I can provide more pictures when I get home.
With an 11 inch motor there is a real challenge to fit the motor above the cross member without raising the torque tube too much. It just barely fits. But on the positive side, you don't have to worry about torque twisting the motor in it's mount.
In the attached picture you can see how the top half of the clam shell is bolted to the rest of the mount with 4 allen bolts. You can also see the pads that rest on the original motor mounts. The rest of the mount is just connecting the bottom half of the clam shell to the mount pads. Ignore the messy wiring.
Do you have any pictures yet?
DAC
www.evalbum.com/2149
You're going with Lithium? I'm jealous! Have you bought them already? What size cells? How big will you pack be (KWH)? Have you figured out where you're going to place them?
My motor sits on the original mounts. I had a 2 piece "clam shell" clamp made to fit around the motor and then welded it up a mount. I can provide more pictures when I get home.
With an 11 inch motor there is a real challenge to fit the motor above the cross member without raising the torque tube too much. It just barely fits. But on the positive side, you don't have to worry about torque twisting the motor in it's mount.
In the attached picture you can see how the top half of the clam shell is bolted to the rest of the mount with 4 allen bolts. You can also see the pads that rest on the original motor mounts. The rest of the mount is just connecting the bottom half of the clam shell to the mount pads. Ignore the messy wiring.
Do you have any pictures yet?
DAC
www.evalbum.com/2149
As for placement I'm making 6 battery boxes, and do 4 rear/2 front or 3/3 depending on where I need to put back the weight. I'd love to do the A123's though since my pack would be 300lbs for 18kwh and if I ever went to a zilla 2k ehv the combo would probably give me around 500whp. But I'm guessing that my transmission wouldn't do so well with ~600-650ft-lbs on tap.
The big difference I can see from your setup is the adapter plate. I'm going clutchless, so I ditched the bellhousing in favor of a one piece adapter that attaches the motor directly to the torque tube, but the motor should be in about the same place because I didn't want to cut the drive shaft, to bring the motor back even though it would probably be good for handling.
I'm a little behind schedule because I fixed up the '83 as a gas car first, but the to do list on that car is down to about a page instead of a mile long, but now that the weather should be getting nicer I'd like to get the electric on the road this summer.
I'll be mounting the motor this weekend, so it's nice to see how you did your mounts. I have a slightly different idea, but I may fall back on the classic clam shell.
So how does your car drive?????? Do you have it setup for 1000 motor amps? What kind of current can those nicads put out? What's your nominal voltage?
04-19-2011, 03:14 PM
#26
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where to start. The car is fun to drive, but it needs to get funner! It's a bit heavy, so throwing it around an autocross track is challenging. I took it out the other night on some local twisty roads to test the new tires. It handled it pretty well, and I didn't wake anyone up banging through the gears.
Right now my pack voltage is 239. It's pretty stiff when it's fresh off the charger, but sag is still a problem. I've gotten 800 amps to the motor, but I doubt I've ever hit 1000. And the sag is significant. All I want is a pack that can deliver 240 volts at 1000 amps, for 15 seconds or so. Is that asking too much? Well, actually, that's asking a lot. But Lithium can do it. Fast, far or cheap. I'm still doing it cheap, and not as fast as I'd like.
The cells are supposed to be 34ah, but I've never tested my range. According to ZillaView, software hooked up to my controller, I used just over 24ah to go 15 miles the other night. That's back roads, some downhill, some big uphills, some stop and go in light traffic. At that point my pack got real soft, so I need to figure out what's going on.
Ummm, are you sure you want to go clutchless? I kept my transaxle and use the clutch for shifting. Sure, if I was in no hurry I could leave it in 4th and drive around town. Or I could match speeds and shift points to protect the synchros. But on the track, I need the clutch for reasonably fast shifts. And you have to think of your clutch as a safety feature. With too much torques would you rather slip your clutch or break an axle? It happens. If your controller locks on full and there's too much torque to pull it out of gear, a clutch is a nice feature.
I never use 1st gear and I wish 5th were taller. I've heard there is a taller 5th that is easy to switch out. I also swapped in an LSD tranny and glad I did.
For your motor mount, remember, you're just holding it up. It's mounted solid to the transaxle through the torque tube, so you don't have to worry about it twisting. You just have to stop it from bouncing around.
The transaxle does want to tip a little hangin off it's mount, so you may want to check that before you bolt it down. I measured from the rear axles to the ground to make sure they were level.
If you want to test out your pack before you get it in your car, send it my way. I'd love to test a real pack in my car. Oh well, until I get another $10k to play with I have to squeeze all I can from my NiCads.
DAC
Right now my pack voltage is 239. It's pretty stiff when it's fresh off the charger, but sag is still a problem. I've gotten 800 amps to the motor, but I doubt I've ever hit 1000. And the sag is significant. All I want is a pack that can deliver 240 volts at 1000 amps, for 15 seconds or so. Is that asking too much? Well, actually, that's asking a lot. But Lithium can do it. Fast, far or cheap. I'm still doing it cheap, and not as fast as I'd like.
The cells are supposed to be 34ah, but I've never tested my range. According to ZillaView, software hooked up to my controller, I used just over 24ah to go 15 miles the other night. That's back roads, some downhill, some big uphills, some stop and go in light traffic. At that point my pack got real soft, so I need to figure out what's going on.
Ummm, are you sure you want to go clutchless? I kept my transaxle and use the clutch for shifting. Sure, if I was in no hurry I could leave it in 4th and drive around town. Or I could match speeds and shift points to protect the synchros. But on the track, I need the clutch for reasonably fast shifts. And you have to think of your clutch as a safety feature. With too much torques would you rather slip your clutch or break an axle? It happens. If your controller locks on full and there's too much torque to pull it out of gear, a clutch is a nice feature.
I never use 1st gear and I wish 5th were taller. I've heard there is a taller 5th that is easy to switch out. I also swapped in an LSD tranny and glad I did.
For your motor mount, remember, you're just holding it up. It's mounted solid to the transaxle through the torque tube, so you don't have to worry about it twisting. You just have to stop it from bouncing around.
The transaxle does want to tip a little hangin off it's mount, so you may want to check that before you bolt it down. I measured from the rear axles to the ground to make sure they were level.If you want to test out your pack before you get it in your car, send it my way. I'd love to test a real pack in my car. Oh well, until I get another $10k to play with I have to squeeze all I can from my NiCads.
DAC
04-19-2011, 04:18 PM
#27
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary Canada
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Where to start. The car is fun to drive, but it needs to get funner! It's a bit heavy, so throwing it around an autocross track is challenging. I took it out the other night on some local twisty roads to test the new tires. It handled it pretty well, and I didn't wake anyone up banging through the gears.
Right now my pack voltage is 239. It's pretty stiff when it's fresh off the charger, but sag is still a problem. I've gotten 800 amps to the motor, but I doubt I've ever hit 1000. And the sag is significant. All I want is a pack that can deliver 240 volts at 1000 amps, for 15 seconds or so. Is that asking too much? Well, actually, that's asking a lot. But Lithium can do it. Fast, far or cheap. I'm still doing it cheap, and not as fast as I'd like.
The cells are supposed to be 34ah, but I've never tested my range. According to ZillaView, software hooked up to my controller, I used just over 24ah to go 15 miles the other night. That's back roads, some downhill, some big uphills, some stop and go in light traffic. At that point my pack got real soft, so I need to figure out what's going on.
Ummm, are you sure you want to go clutchless? I kept my transaxle and use the clutch for shifting. Sure, if I was in no hurry I could leave it in 4th and drive around town. Or I could match speeds and shift points to protect the synchros. But on the track, I need the clutch for reasonably fast shifts. And you have to think of your clutch as a safety feature. With too much torques would you rather slip your clutch or break an axle? It happens. If your controller locks on full and there's too much torque to pull it out of gear, a clutch is a nice feature.
I never use 1st gear and I wish 5th were taller. I've heard there is a taller 5th that is easy to switch out. I also swapped in an LSD tranny and glad I did.
For your motor mount, remember, you're just holding it up. It's mounted solid to the transaxle through the torque tube, so you don't have to worry about it twisting. You just have to stop it from bouncing around. The transaxle does want to tip a little hangin off it's mount, so you may want to check that before you bolt it down. I measured from the rear axles to the ground to make sure they were level.
If you want to test out your pack before you get it in your car, send it my way. I'd love to test a real pack in my car. Oh well, until I get another $10k to play with I have to squeeze all I can from my NiCads.
DAC
Right now my pack voltage is 239. It's pretty stiff when it's fresh off the charger, but sag is still a problem. I've gotten 800 amps to the motor, but I doubt I've ever hit 1000. And the sag is significant. All I want is a pack that can deliver 240 volts at 1000 amps, for 15 seconds or so. Is that asking too much? Well, actually, that's asking a lot. But Lithium can do it. Fast, far or cheap. I'm still doing it cheap, and not as fast as I'd like.
The cells are supposed to be 34ah, but I've never tested my range. According to ZillaView, software hooked up to my controller, I used just over 24ah to go 15 miles the other night. That's back roads, some downhill, some big uphills, some stop and go in light traffic. At that point my pack got real soft, so I need to figure out what's going on.
Ummm, are you sure you want to go clutchless? I kept my transaxle and use the clutch for shifting. Sure, if I was in no hurry I could leave it in 4th and drive around town. Or I could match speeds and shift points to protect the synchros. But on the track, I need the clutch for reasonably fast shifts. And you have to think of your clutch as a safety feature. With too much torques would you rather slip your clutch or break an axle? It happens. If your controller locks on full and there's too much torque to pull it out of gear, a clutch is a nice feature.
I never use 1st gear and I wish 5th were taller. I've heard there is a taller 5th that is easy to switch out. I also swapped in an LSD tranny and glad I did.
For your motor mount, remember, you're just holding it up. It's mounted solid to the transaxle through the torque tube, so you don't have to worry about it twisting. You just have to stop it from bouncing around.
The transaxle does want to tip a little hangin off it's mount, so you may want to check that before you bolt it down. I measured from the rear axles to the ground to make sure they were level.If you want to test out your pack before you get it in your car, send it my way. I'd love to test a real pack in my car. Oh well, until I get another $10k to play with I have to squeeze all I can from my NiCads.
DAC
The clutchless choice was a big one, and one that took a long time to finally decide. I have the transmission out of a turbo in my car even though it's a NA. That gearing should let me use 2nd and 3rd mainly, all the gears except 5th are much taller than the NA transmission. I've tried pulling the transmission out out of gear on my '83 (NA transmission and of course much less torque) but it pops out nicely. I hope I never have to do that because that means the 11HV is going to over rev and blow up. The Soliton1 has some redundant safety features and all of the known failure points make the controller fail OFF not on, but anything could happen. I do feel more comfortable with the neutral option vs a driect drive setup, but lots of guys are doing that. My pack will either be 60ah with A123 or 80ah with Headway, should give me enough range for my daily needs.
As for the clutch being a failure point, I'm almost 100% sure it would be a constant failure point with 1000 motor amps unless I went to an expensive racing clutch. Also getting rid of ~36lbs of steel rotating at motor speed seemed like a good idea for acceleration.
I have more detail on my blog about the choice. http://electricporsche.ca
Your motor mount tips are great though, I will use that in my design this weekend. It's much easier to just support it. I am going to look at a solid transmission mount though, I've heard lots of people recommend them for v8 swaps.
I hope my car has an LSD, the first owner went through the trouble of swapping in the turbo transmission in '89 (car is an '86NA) so hopefully he wanted LSD and not just taller ratio's.
I'm looking forward to hearing how you do on the track, good luck with the car.
04-19-2011, 04:53 PM
#28
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did have my flywheel turned down to lighten it, but there are better options. Fidenza aluminum flywheels come to mind. And there are a number of racing button clutch's that will handle the torque. It's all money, just a matter of how fast you can afford to go.
What are the details of the pack? Have you found a good source for the cells? What about BMS?
If I could cold get a 310v pack that could deliver 1000 amps, I'd be happy as a pig in s#!+! That would give me all the power I needed for playing as well as the range I need for my daily commute.
How much do you think you'll spend on your pack?
Dave Cover
What are the details of the pack? Have you found a good source for the cells? What about BMS?
If I could cold get a 310v pack that could deliver 1000 amps, I'd be happy as a pig in s#!+! That would give me all the power I needed for playing as well as the range I need for my daily commute.
How much do you think you'll spend on your pack?
Dave Cover
04-19-2011, 06:03 PM
#29
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Calgary Canada
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did have my flywheel turned down to lighten it, but there are better options. Fidenza aluminum flywheels come to mind. And there are a number of racing button clutch's that will handle the torque. It's all money, just a matter of how fast you can afford to go.
What are the details of the pack? Have you found a good source for the cells? What about BMS?
If I could cold get a 310v pack that could deliver 1000 amps, I'd be happy as a pig in s#!+! That would give me all the power I needed for playing as well as the range I need for my daily commute.
How much do you think you'll spend on your pack?
Dave Cover
What are the details of the pack? Have you found a good source for the cells? What about BMS?
If I could cold get a 310v pack that could deliver 1000 amps, I'd be happy as a pig in s#!+! That would give me all the power I needed for playing as well as the range I need for my daily commute.
How much do you think you'll spend on your pack?
Dave Cover
I designed my own charging/bms system that charges each parallel cell group individually so each group gets charged to 3.5V with a low voltage warning as well as temperature.
The A123 20ah pouches are around $45US each (shipped), but I need to verify the cell is real and the seller is good. I bought one cell that is on route for $52US including shipping. My pack design is 94 series 3 parallel (282 cells) or about $12,690 shipped. Which would give a nominal 310V, IR of 3 parallel cells would be 0.26-.36milli ohms which is a 0.26 to 0.36v drop per cell at 1000A (lets use 0.3 for easy math) with a nominal 3.3V - 0.3sag per cell = 282V sagged. There will be some losses in the wiring and connectors so something less than that, but still an insanely stiff pack at 1000A.
The original plan was 768pcs of Headway 10ah cells @ $12-13 each + shipping and holders etc. (from China) + shipping for a total around $10,000. Be careful they are quite expensive if bought in the USA.
The headway pack is 80ah vs 60ah for the A123's, however at 1000A draw on the headways I would be half way between the continuous (10C) and peak (15C) output rating. The A123 pack would be 16.6C however it's apparently good for 20-30C continuous and 50-60C peak. That would let me upgrade to a 2000A controller if I ever wanted to blow my transmission into little tiny pieces. If I did that I would look at something like a ford 9" with independant rear suspension and a 2 speed + reverse powerglide or something.
04-21-2011, 09:57 AM
#30
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very nice. Looks like you've put a lot of effort into the BMS/pack already. How about going with 2 parallel packs instead of three for starts, and then add the third string later? Save several grand initially and still have a lot of performance.
I've heard good things about the Headway cells, don't they make a 16AH cylindrical also? A123 is the king, but I haven't heard of anyone using theirs pouch cells yet. I like the pouch cells for packaging. With Headway cylindirclas there's just too much wasted space. I can do a much better job fitting pouch cells into my boxes.
Hmmm, 2 parallel strings would put me at 40ah, more than I have now. What are they 3.2v nominal? Let's see, 3.2 vpc times 96 cells times 40 AH gives me a 12k pack. That still put's me right on the edge of what I'd need for commuting. Fine for racing though. 3 strings give me range but the $$....
I have my motor voltage limit set at 240, but my pack can't deliver any where near that. But the 1000 amp limit of my controller is within reach. Hopefully I'll have my expanded pack going soon and then we'll see how bad the sag is.
Does your BMS work with a charger to signal end of charge? I have a Manzanita Micro PFC-30 that has some ability to respond to commands. They do use a proprietary but open protocol to communicate. If you were to commercialize your BMS it would open you up to a fairly large market. It would be a great feature if your BMS could let all the subs finish charge and then tell the charger to shut down. Plug and play.
Keep me posted on your progress.
Dave Cover
www.evalbum.com/2149
I've heard good things about the Headway cells, don't they make a 16AH cylindrical also? A123 is the king, but I haven't heard of anyone using theirs pouch cells yet. I like the pouch cells for packaging. With Headway cylindirclas there's just too much wasted space. I can do a much better job fitting pouch cells into my boxes.
Hmmm, 2 parallel strings would put me at 40ah, more than I have now. What are they 3.2v nominal? Let's see, 3.2 vpc times 96 cells times 40 AH gives me a 12k pack. That still put's me right on the edge of what I'd need for commuting. Fine for racing though. 3 strings give me range but the $$....
I have my motor voltage limit set at 240, but my pack can't deliver any where near that. But the 1000 amp limit of my controller is within reach. Hopefully I'll have my expanded pack going soon and then we'll see how bad the sag is.
Does your BMS work with a charger to signal end of charge? I have a Manzanita Micro PFC-30 that has some ability to respond to commands. They do use a proprietary but open protocol to communicate. If you were to commercialize your BMS it would open you up to a fairly large market. It would be a great feature if your BMS could let all the subs finish charge and then tell the charger to shut down. Plug and play.
Keep me posted on your progress.
Dave Cover
www.evalbum.com/2149