flyingskip87

OK I'm sure this will incite some "wuss" comments from some on here, but here goes...

Bought an 86 951 last Spring after 20 years of dreaming. When it runs, it's fun, but therein lies the rub. It's been down for an alternator problem, a starter problem, a slave and then master cylinder problem...you name it. I thought I would be able to do a lot more work myself, but quickly realized that I wasn't as mechanical as I thought I was and/or these things are harder to work on than a 60s era Chevy. Add to that I don't have a garage but have to work outside on a parking pad and can't have the car in any way appear inoperable or I get fined by the POA and it is more difficult.

Today is the capper. My mech just called and said it wouldn't start while he was converting the A/C system---upon further review I've got chocolate milk which we all know either means a blown head or gasket, either way big time money to fix. I'm thinking of just parting it out, selling as is...hell I don't know, somebody give me an idea cuz my head is spinning! The ex-wife just took me back to court over alimony and child support, I don't have the extra to be pissing it down a hole if I can't get this to stay in one piece for more than a month at a time of weekend driving! I don't push it, I don't race it...did I get a lemon or is this just what it's like owning a 25yo Porsche?! Arrgh... I bought this off a reputable guy, through a contact on here, and thought I was getting the best car I could for the money. He had just done $2500 of work on the car the month before I bought it---motor mounts, water pump, timing belt, etc etc I thought I'd be set for a while if I didn't push it hard! Seriously---is this normal, and what's it going to cost me to get it fixed vs. what it's worth as is to somebody here. I still owe money on this thing!

Have your laugh at my expense, and then please give me any good advice you can. Thanks in advance.

JohnKoaWood

Weekend driving, so this isn't your only ride..

Find yourself a friend local to you, that is willing to dive in and help.. I have had a few friends local to me bring their cars to me, or me to their cars to assist them with issues... and several of them have come to my aide when I needed it...

I am not down that way often, but am always willing to help anyone whenever I can.. if is it a blown head gasket it can be fixed even if you purchase a part at a time... the parts arent checp, but they arent all that expensive either.

You COULD put it up for sale, but will take a hit as it needs work, and parting a car out is much more involved than many people realize...

Where is the milkshake presenting itself? head gasket, while a PITA isn't a show stopper... try to talk to whoever you bought it from, perhaps they can assist in getting it back on the road..

Yes the issues you have had are part of owning ANY 25YO car, not just because it's a Porsche.. the Porsche part comes in when discussing the cost to repair the issues, but there are many cost effective options available.

FWIW, I have only owned 2 cars that I havent had to replace the alternator in, and neither of them was a Porsche.. starter is a limited life item.. master and slave are subject to the owner maintenance of the hydraulics (old fluid turns acidic, and attacks the seals).. these are common items, the HG contains steel, and WILL corrode over time, it is likely the origional HG, and is likely VERY heavily corroded..

The HG will likely cost at least 1K total to fix in parts and head work, plus labor.. anywhere you can save a few $ is OK, but remember short sheeting here might cost you there..

Sucks, but it can be fixed...

pnbell

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes... Sadly a 25 year old sport car is for either wealthy people with mechanics, or people who like working on cars and have decent garages..

Though it does sound like your car has had an extraordinary amount of issues....

As for 'Chocolate Milk' (Oil/Coolant mixed?) where was this found? In the oil or in the coolant reservoir? This is often your Oil Cooler Seals -not necessarily a head gasket.

Or did he mean 'Chocolate Milk' in the intake? -cause this could be Air/Oil Seals...

Please fill us in on what exactly is meant by 'Chocolate Milk'

racer

You seem really stressed out. I would cut losses.. Ditch the car and make sure the kids have the money they are entitled to. Heck, the next owner will see the $x,xxxx you've already spent and know its a good car . Seriously though.. Just sell it.. Never buy a cheap porsche again. Learn from this experience.

flyingskip87

Guys---OK I've cooled down a little bit and the blood pressure is down under 200!

I know that the alternator and clutch components were long-term consumables, and while they were annoying in terms of money, time and inability to drive the car, you're absolutely right that they would wear out on any car of this generation. The starter was my own fault---I shorted it out by mistake when I forgot to disconnect the battery before removing it to work on the clutch. I'm a big boy, I can admit my mistakes and learn from them.

The car is a lot of fun to drive and considering the age HASN'T been terrible. The friend thing is one of the problems---I don't any car-crazy friends who want to get dirty and sweaty, so anything I can't do singlehanded has to go to the shop. I tried to find a mech I could work along side of, but insurance rules and a general lack of wanting me there while they're working has kept that from happening LOL!

Anyway, I'm headed not to see it myself and I'll report back when I know more. He told me the collant reservoir is empty and so I'm guessing it's in the oil, hence why I thought it was a HG problem, but I'll find out for sure.

Thanks for the answers and the calming, common sense wisdom---right now it's much appreciated.

JohnKoaWood

Coolant reservoir could be empty for many reasons other than blown head gasket.

Scum under the oil fill cap is very easy to dismiss as related to weather changes (this winter has been really odd down your way hasn't it?) and could just be condensation of water from not driving the car often enough to chase all the water out of the oil..

Clean the oil fill cap off, fill the coolant reservoir, and have the coolant pressure tested... you will find out where the coolant is going, as the pressure will force it to the source of the leak... you have as good a chance that it is a bad hose as a blown head gasket... could even be a bad heater core (remember the core is 25 years old too, and they do corrode)..

Take it one step at a time, and you will sort the car out, and be driving a great little car in no time..

Trust me, I know life can knock us around some times, and it is tough to stay focused on the end goal, but reaching the goal is all the reward in the world!

FWIW, there is NOTHING on these cars that cant be accomplished single handed, I have done MOST of my work by myself... including a clutch and an engine removal... just requires working smarter than harder... some times you need to take a step back and give it a second to speak to you...

pnbell

So True, I have done all my 944 work by myself; laying in a driveway most the time... and One common thing I have learned is "If something is really hard to do and Pissing you off, you are doing it wrong!"

So many times I have been P'eeed Off, Thrown a wrench through the air, Swore, Walked around Breathing Heavy Aaaaragghghhggg!!

Then walked back, looked at the car, and said "Oh Shooot, let me try it this way... Ta Daaaaa!! A Miracle...

Ha ha, and for the record my coolant tank was empty several times, and traced it to a simple leak...

flyingskip87

OK---update time. As I write this it's being towed to another place that I found after my guy decided he was too sick and begged off working on it. He's a VN vet and has a lot of med problems, so I don't blame him for wanting to take on a big job. In any case, both the new guy and the old guy seem convinced it's a blown HG, so I was told to have a grand ready by next Monday. That I can live with...

The question I have is when I looked back through the paperwork I received when I bought the car, the HG was replaced 11 months and 2700 miles ago, at the same time he did the stuff I mentioned above and more---belts, water pump, motor mounts, etc etc. That leads me to think I either a) got very unlucky ; b) will get a phone call soon saying it's not a HG and I will have to replan ; c) the work wasn't done or wasn't done properly, or d) I have a bigger problem that would cause this to fail so soon, and I can't figure out what that might be.

As far as the oil fill cap---funny you mentioned that, it DID have some scum on it when I went to add a little back in November right before the slave cylinder went out and took it off the road. Explain this to me---what is that supposed to be a sign of? The failure of the HG, oil cooler seals as mentioned earlier or what? There wasn't a lot, but I wiped it off and added a little Sea Foam that I normally run in my Mustang---just a couple ounces cuz I figured exactly what you said above, that condensation had some water in the oil. Didn't see it as a big problem, just something I'd do a little "proactive" maintenance---should I have picked up then that I had a bigger problem? It's been run since, just idling in the driveway to keep the battery charged and the fluids circulated, and I had checked the coolant and topped it up before it got too cold...it was down a little, but still above the minimum line. IDK...

JohnKoaWood

And here we come to the crux of it... these cars NEED to be driven... and they need to be maintained...

The HG done prior to you purchasing the car.. probably not torqued correctly, or never retorqued after it was installed...

Starting it to circulate the fluids isn't a reall good thing for these cars.. take it out for an hour or so a week... I drive the **** out of mine each and every day when I can... they love it.. but I pay for it in maintenance...

Your oil cooler seals, not really a problem on the turbo cars, but have been know to be problematic... could be the issue, but not likely... new shop, how familiar are they with 944 turbos?

I am still not sold on the blown head gasket, but if they do pull the head, let me know, I will put you in touch with my shop up here (I am in northern VA) rather than using a straight edge or surface plate to check the head and block for flatness, the shop I took my head to is now offering pressure sensitive film, to perform a clamp up check of the head ON the block, I looked at the process and a couple of customer cars in his shop (including his track 2.8L 944 turbo) and I am impressed enough to use this for my head fit up as soon as the head is ready...

and the scum under the oil fill cap, is the result of condensation of water in the oil, a TON of scum in the coolant tank and under the radiator cap is indicitave of a blown head gasket on a car that was driven after it blew... IF you have a bunch of water in the oil, make sure they swap the rod bearings as well, or you can find yourself in the middle of nowhere with a spun bearing.. they dont like water... hence once the car is right, drive it at least once a week if only to get the water run out of the oil!

And as an asside, the $16 you spent for Rennlist membership... best money you have spent for the addicition yet!

86 951 Driver

I know what its like when the car just can't be running 100%. I bought my car for a decent I think, but I have had to replace the turbo, all the vacuum lines, fuel lines, tires, alignement, FPR, fuel injector, motor mounts, filling the trans mount, axles, and it still makes a noise out of the rear end.

Once these cars are sorted out though they are so much fun. I loved my old 924S and it wasn't in all that great of shape.

JohnKoaWood

Trust me, I am trying to help 2 local guys sort out what between them is almost 50K in 951s.. and each of them only has 1... talk about frustration over a car not running right?

flyingskip87

I appreciate all the feedback.

As far as buying a cheap car---I didn't pay Barrett-Jackson money when I bought this, but it wasn't cheap! It was a decent deal on a bone-stock 951 in good shape, I bought it off a guy who repairs, owns and races these cars and knows one end from the other, I bought it on the advice of a long-time member of this forum who also knows one end from the other and I was very happy with the car when I found it. I have a hard time believing that the guy I got the car from could have screwed up something like a gasket replacement when he told me more than once that he rebuilds his race engines several times a year...but who knows. Small things are annoying, but as I said above---I realize that I haven't had a terrible experience with this car (until today LOL!) and I really enjoy driving it when it's working well. I don't want to get rid of it, I just want to be able to enjoy it without continuing to pour money under the hood! Your friends may have $50 large to put into their hobbies, but I'm not a man of those means!

I'm waiting for feedback tomorrow on what they find once they get it opened up. The best news would be what I expect---I'm not sure just how bad it could get at this point LOL! I'll let you know!

JohnKoaWood

I didn't say they were highly intelligent... they just keep pouring money into them trying to get them right.. and neither one knows how to wrench on these cars, but one is learning quickly!

With any luck it needs a gasket, a couple days and 1K.. and then you are off at the races again!

Good luck, and keep us in the loop!

Clint's 944

Hey Skip,

Long time, sorry to hear your having some troubles....

If you don't mind, what shop did you take it to? I would have the shop do a leakdown before taking anything off the motor. It very well could be something other than a headgasket.

Feel free to give me a call ...

pnbell

Maybe he rebuilds his engines several times a year because he doesn't know how to do a head gasket properly!!!

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