911 and 944 owners
05-06-2002 | 03:34 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,744
Likes: 2
From: Asheville,NC (Don't move here!!!)
Oops! My bad... "356" made it thru the eyes, "No. 1" didn't... 
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Too many sweet young things wandering the halls today in too little clothing, I guess.. I get distracted wiping the drool outta my beard....
I've always figured the 911 woulda been a much better car if they hadn't had to make that design (economic? producability? access?) compromise on the 356 'way back when. If the 911 had evolved from a mid-engined car...
Jim, -10
<img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> Too many sweet young things wandering the halls today in too little clothing, I guess.. I get distracted wiping the drool outta my beard....I've always figured the 911 woulda been a much better car if they hadn't had to make that design (economic? producability? access?) compromise on the 356 'way back when. If the 911 had evolved from a mid-engined car...
Jim, -10
05-06-2002 | 05:14 PM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena, CA
I agree with all that the 914 is much closer to the original idea behind the 356's than almost any of the later cars. Yet they're all Porsches and fine cars in their own rights. My little '87 NA is a damned fine car FOR IT'S INTENDED PURPOSE - which was not the same as the 911's or even the 951's intended purpose.
Now here's an inflammatory idea: Porsches aren't "superior" as someone said. What I mean is, they are a wonderufl car, but frankly not superior to many other cars that are on the market intended for the same niche buyer. There are many fine sports cars out there, each with there own attributes and faults. Porsche is no exception. I love my car but we all know it has it's Achilles heel(s). You or I might LIKE a Porsche more than another type of sports car, but that's just like preferring 911's over 924's or 996's over 356's. etc.
Now here's an inflammatory idea: Porsches aren't "superior" as someone said. What I mean is, they are a wonderufl car, but frankly not superior to many other cars that are on the market intended for the same niche buyer. There are many fine sports cars out there, each with there own attributes and faults. Porsche is no exception. I love my car but we all know it has it's Achilles heel(s). You or I might LIKE a Porsche more than another type of sports car, but that's just like preferring 911's over 924's or 996's over 356's. etc.
05-06-2002 | 09:26 PM
#18
Banned
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 15,472
Likes: 160
[quote]Originally posted by Z-man:
<strong>
(About the 914 being a purer Porsche).
Like stated above by Sloth, the 914 is closer to the original 356 No. 1 than perhaps any other Porsche around! Both were:
1. Mid-engined.
2. 4 cyl air-cooled engines.
3. Mostly VW parts.
4. Low on power.
5. Great handling, albeit a bit quirky at times.
6. Relatively cheap to purchase and maintain.
What other street car besides the 914 is so similar to the 356? So the 914 captures the spirit of what the original Porsche was!
Funny, but if you consider how Porsche has evolved, then the 996TT can be considered to be the ultimate in Porsche evolution.
And due to it's history, I'd consider the air cooled 911 to be the car that captures the essence of Porsche ownership.
The 924/944/968, the 928 and even the Boxster I would say represent Porsche's committment to engineering and their fearless approach to consider alternatives to their way of thinking.
So: each Porsche car captures SOMETHING about what Porsche ownership is, although this ownership respesents different aspects of Porsche.
Just my $0.42
-Zoltan.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well when you put it that way I totally agree. I thinking from a different point. I wasn't putting the 914 down at all. I love them, I'm planning on buying one next.
<strong>
(About the 914 being a purer Porsche).
Like stated above by Sloth, the 914 is closer to the original 356 No. 1 than perhaps any other Porsche around! Both were:
1. Mid-engined.
2. 4 cyl air-cooled engines.
3. Mostly VW parts.
4. Low on power.
5. Great handling, albeit a bit quirky at times.
6. Relatively cheap to purchase and maintain.
What other street car besides the 914 is so similar to the 356? So the 914 captures the spirit of what the original Porsche was!
Funny, but if you consider how Porsche has evolved, then the 996TT can be considered to be the ultimate in Porsche evolution.
And due to it's history, I'd consider the air cooled 911 to be the car that captures the essence of Porsche ownership.
The 924/944/968, the 928 and even the Boxster I would say represent Porsche's committment to engineering and their fearless approach to consider alternatives to their way of thinking.
So: each Porsche car captures SOMETHING about what Porsche ownership is, although this ownership respesents different aspects of Porsche.
Just my $0.42
-Zoltan.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well when you put it that way I totally agree. I thinking from a different point. I wasn't putting the 914 down at all. I love them, I'm planning on buying one next.
05-07-2002 | 12:20 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 13
From: USA
One of the nicest Porsche owners I've ever ran into was a 17-year-old who was trying to sell his 914.
Leslie and I were visiting some of my relatives in "down-home" Brookville, IN when we rounded a bend coming out of a woods, and lo and behold there was a little orange 914 sitting on a hill in front of us with a big "for sale" sign tucked underneath one of the wipers...
Of course, we stopped to investigate. The lane leading up to the seller's house was pretty long, so I pulled the '83 a little out of the driveway (again, this was in the middle of NOWHERE!) and started looking at the car.
After a few minutes, another car (not p-car) pulled in behind me in the lane, and a kid and his girlfriend got out. I completely expected the guy to say "yeah, let me get my dad..." When instead he stated "I really don't want to sell her, but I don't know how I'm going to go to school if I don't!"
Keep in mind - this is serious Ford Country we're talking... if it doesn't have "5.0" or "GT" on the side, then you are the enemy!
Needless to say, it was great talking to him - after about half and hour or so, Les and I excused ourselves, and went on our way... but it sure was fun talking Porsches with a REAL owner that evening
Micah
BTW, he was only asking $2500 for it... and it had new paint and recovered seats... too bad we're poor
Leslie and I were visiting some of my relatives in "down-home" Brookville, IN when we rounded a bend coming out of a woods, and lo and behold there was a little orange 914 sitting on a hill in front of us with a big "for sale" sign tucked underneath one of the wipers...
Of course, we stopped to investigate. The lane leading up to the seller's house was pretty long, so I pulled the '83 a little out of the driveway (again, this was in the middle of NOWHERE!) and started looking at the car.
After a few minutes, another car (not p-car) pulled in behind me in the lane, and a kid and his girlfriend got out. I completely expected the guy to say "yeah, let me get my dad..." When instead he stated "I really don't want to sell her, but I don't know how I'm going to go to school if I don't!"
Keep in mind - this is serious Ford Country we're talking... if it doesn't have "5.0" or "GT" on the side, then you are the enemy!
Needless to say, it was great talking to him - after about half and hour or so, Les and I excused ourselves, and went on our way... but it sure was fun talking Porsches with a REAL owner that evening
Micah
BTW, he was only asking $2500 for it... and it had new paint and recovered seats... too bad we're poor
05-07-2002 | 02:49 PM
#21
Instructor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
From: Southern California
[quote]Originally posted by Z-man:
<strong>
But what about the 914? There's no crest on the front, yet it's one of the purest Porsches around!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This caught my eye since every 914 I've seen has a crest on the front. I've also hear that they also out handle most other Porsches!
<strong>
But what about the 914? There's no crest on the front, yet it's one of the purest Porsches around!
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This caught my eye since every 914 I've seen has a crest on the front. I've also hear that they also out handle most other Porsches!
05-07-2002 | 03:42 PM
#23
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 1
From: North NJ, USA
[quote]Originally posted by jordanolder:
<strong>
This caught my eye since every 914 I've seen has a crest on the front. I've also hear that they also out handle most other Porsches!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Every crest you see on the hood of a 914 was put there by an owner, not by the factory. It was not even an option. The only place you will see PORSCHE on the outside of the car is atop the rear engine cover.
Since it was a joint venture between VW and Porsche, the people at Porsche decided not to make a big deal about the car being a Porsche, hence the absence of the crest.
And I wouldn't mind a 904 in my driveway either! (Or a 914, or a 911TT, or a Boxster...)
-Z.
<strong>
This caught my eye since every 914 I've seen has a crest on the front. I've also hear that they also out handle most other Porsches!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Every crest you see on the hood of a 914 was put there by an owner, not by the factory. It was not even an option. The only place you will see PORSCHE on the outside of the car is atop the rear engine cover.
Since it was a joint venture between VW and Porsche, the people at Porsche decided not to make a big deal about the car being a Porsche, hence the absence of the crest.
And I wouldn't mind a 904 in my driveway either!
(Or a 914, or a 911TT, or a Boxster...)-Z.
05-07-2002 | 05:05 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA
[quote]Originally posted by sb944:
<strong>A funny story about Porsche ownership.
True story. I went to look at a 1974 911 targa while I was looking at buying a car about a year ago. The owner rambled on about his love of Porsche, his 1988 targa, and many other car related things. After a test drive I told him about my interest in 944’s, especially the S2, to which he replied “The 944 is not a real Porsche”. I felt quite angry at this, as I liked all the 944’s I'd seen and was only looking at the 911 to try to make sure I didn’t overlook all my options, so I replied “I actually like the S2 more than this car as it’s quicker, and the 50/50 balance really makes it easy to drive, plus it doesn’t feel very old like this car does.” That was pretty much the end of that conversation and I went on to buy a 1985 944 na after a little more searching.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Stupid moron. Simple fact, 944, 914, boxster SUPERIOR design to the 911. No dispute, no buts, that's how it is. A rear engine is a BAD design. Have they created tons of gadgets and great engineering and what not to make up for it? Yes definitely but that doesn't mean it's not an inferior design. People like this guy are hte reason the 911 has never been updated to a more appropriate mid-engine design. The 911 is a cool looking car, and it's tail happy character make it perhaps even more fun to drive (and hard to drive) but that doesn't really mean **** in the "it's not a real porsche argument" The 996 has an outrageously complicated high tech rear suspension compared witht eh boxster s which has a relatively simple one - it cannot shake the boxster s in tight turns, in fact hte boxster s can conceivably beat it on some tracks. It only excells due to a horsepower advantage plain and simple, and even with 70 more horsepower it really doesn't offer a great deal more performance. I still like 911s, they look cool and are fun to drive but they sure as hell aren't more of a real porsche than any other. 911 owners paid more and got less bang for the buck dollar for dollar and got an inferior design, no wonder so many of them have a stick up their ***.
<strong>A funny story about Porsche ownership.
True story. I went to look at a 1974 911 targa while I was looking at buying a car about a year ago. The owner rambled on about his love of Porsche, his 1988 targa, and many other car related things. After a test drive I told him about my interest in 944’s, especially the S2, to which he replied “The 944 is not a real Porsche”. I felt quite angry at this, as I liked all the 944’s I'd seen and was only looking at the 911 to try to make sure I didn’t overlook all my options, so I replied “I actually like the S2 more than this car as it’s quicker, and the 50/50 balance really makes it easy to drive, plus it doesn’t feel very old like this car does.” That was pretty much the end of that conversation and I went on to buy a 1985 944 na after a little more searching.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Stupid moron. Simple fact, 944, 914, boxster SUPERIOR design to the 911. No dispute, no buts, that's how it is. A rear engine is a BAD design. Have they created tons of gadgets and great engineering and what not to make up for it? Yes definitely but that doesn't mean it's not an inferior design. People like this guy are hte reason the 911 has never been updated to a more appropriate mid-engine design. The 911 is a cool looking car, and it's tail happy character make it perhaps even more fun to drive (and hard to drive) but that doesn't really mean **** in the "it's not a real porsche argument" The 996 has an outrageously complicated high tech rear suspension compared witht eh boxster s which has a relatively simple one - it cannot shake the boxster s in tight turns, in fact hte boxster s can conceivably beat it on some tracks. It only excells due to a horsepower advantage plain and simple, and even with 70 more horsepower it really doesn't offer a great deal more performance. I still like 911s, they look cool and are fun to drive but they sure as hell aren't more of a real porsche than any other. 911 owners paid more and got less bang for the buck dollar for dollar and got an inferior design, no wonder so many of them have a stick up their ***.
05-07-2002 | 05:58 PM
#28
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 1
From: North NJ, USA
[quote]Originally posted by deni durrell:
<strong>anyone know of that quote about the Porsche R & D guy talking about the how the 911 design "defies logic" and that people still buy into it? i wish i made a text file out of that one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think it went something like: "The 911 engine is the worst engine design perfectly executed." I think I saw it in 911 & Porsche world.
-Z.
<strong>anyone know of that quote about the Porsche R & D guy talking about the how the 911 design "defies logic" and that people still buy into it? i wish i made a text file out of that one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think it went something like: "The 911 engine is the worst engine design perfectly executed." I think I saw it in 911 & Porsche world.
-Z.
05-08-2002 | 10:47 AM
#30
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
From: Philadelphia, PA
[quote]Originally posted by Z-man:
<strong>
I think it went something like: "The 911 engine is the worst engine design perfectly executed." I think I saw it in 911 & Porsche world.
-Z.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Road & Track on the 911
"A bad idea, brilliantly executed"
<strong>
I think it went something like: "The 911 engine is the worst engine design perfectly executed." I think I saw it in 911 & Porsche world.
-Z.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Road & Track on the 911
"A bad idea, brilliantly executed"