996FLT6

I purchased couple of one gallon drums of this stuff and it reads it is toluene. Ingredient is Toluene CAS# 108-88-3 and that's it no other ingredients. Can someone confirm this is the right stuff to increase octane? Thanks in advance. Mike

Dave

Sounds like the stuff I get at home depot, toluol in small letters across the top of the label and TOLUENE in large letters under that.

Ski

Yes it is,,I get mine at ACE. $6.95 gal. Does anyone know if Xylene is better? They are the same price and isn't Xylene 117 octane where TOLUENE is 104? I've used 3oz of ATF and 3oz of mineral spirits in my brew of 1.2 gallons of TOLUENE filling up with 93 octane. ATF for lubrication and the mineral spirits for cleaner.

Who is using what and how much?

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by Ski:
<strong>Yes it is,,I get mine at ACE. $6.95 gal. Does anyone know if Xylene is better?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was told they are the same (both 105)

We tried a 20% mixture in a CRX today. Ran nicer. Pulled noticably harder! I will have to try the stuff. I understand that F1 cars' were using an 80% mixture in the late 60's early 70's and they had no problem with 79PSI on qualifying laps!!!


BTW 79PSI!

booster

If you guys know any commercial painters they get a pretty big discount at paint stores or you can purchase it yourself in a 5 gallon can, I usually get it for around $23 for 5 gallons at the Sherwin Williams paint store...I did have a paint contractor getting it for me for $19 for 5 gallons but he retired.

IceShark

Toulene is 114 octane.

You can get it pretty cheap if you go for large quantities. Gas stations down under in Oz got in big trouble some years ago as they were buying tanker loads and filling up their tanks to avoid gasoline taxes I think some of the mixes were well over 50%.

The Oz government wanted to shut this down and is where I believe all the rumors of too much toulene being very bad for engines started so they could scare people into quit using the stuff. Everyone seems to agree that 30% addition is OK. Of course, how much does the original gasoline stock have in it?

Danno

And xylene is 117 octane. More info on toluene CAS# 108-88-3: <a href="http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts56.html" target="_blank">http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts56.html</a>

"I understand that F1 cars' were using an 80% mixture in the late 60's early 70's and they had no problem with 79PSI on qualifying laps!!!"

That would be in 1977 with Renault being the pioneer to introduce a turbo F1 engine. They were ridiculed for their unorthodox ways every single time their car blew up in a cloud of turbo bits or came into the pits on fire. But their perserverance finally paid off with a double victory on home turf at the French Grand Prix.

BMW/Brabham, Ferrari, Porsche/TAG and Honda/Williams took notice and had to throw their hat into the turbo ring. The old-guard Cosworth DFV V8 would never regain its dominance in F1 (lived on in Indy/CART). The BMW in '83 (before fuel-limits and boost-restrictions were enacted) had the highest 'official' power output of 1300bhp. But rumors were that Honda had 1500bhp. The pinnacle of the Turbo Era was in '88 with McLaren/Honda winning 15 of 16 races!

Interesting note was that BMW switched from KKK to Garrett turbos in '84... Recommended reading: "McLaren Honda Turbo - A Technical Appraisal" by Ian Bamsey.

"Of course, how much does the original gasoline stock have in it? "

As for the amounts of toluene you can add, check out the 'Fuel FAQ' on my <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/951_racerx" target="_blank">RacerX website</a> there's a link in the 'F1 Rocket Fuel' article that shows the percentage composition of gasoline in various countries around the world. In the US, aromatics (toluene) was at 29% while in Germany it was 39.7%. So you can add 2 gallons to bring US gas up to German specs.

I've used as much as 5 gallons per tank without any problems. But I don't run any more than 18psi at the track anyway and 3 gallons is all I need to fully combat knock/detonation at that level of boost. The issue with using too much is that toluene is denser than gasoline, so the mixture will be too rich. You'll need to adjust your computer to provide less fuel to keep your air-fuel ratio correct. Also the toluene doesn't vaporize as easily and may cause cold-start problems. The Honda F1 teams actually had to heat up their fuel to 176 degrees-F (80C) in order to get it to vaporize. Finally, igniting that mixture is another issue. You may need to upgrade your ignition system to a multi-spark system like the MSD-6A.

Lemon Yellow 87 n/a

YO!!

*Rothmans*

Danno:
If he's Racer X, why does he have an "M" on his chest????????
I had to ask.....

Skip

I don't know about the Xylene in the gas, but it makes a great adhesive remover if you are stripping the interior. Xylene (ACE = Xylol) is the active ingredient in Goof-Off and 3M Adhesive Remover.

Skip

bs

i'd like to hear a little more about this adding of ATF (by which you mean auto tranny fluid, right?) to fuel... for lubrication? excuse me for potentially sounding like an idiot but these aren't 2 cycle chain saw engines we are talking about.

it seems to me like there must be some ingredient in atf that would leave an undesirable residue when combusted... perhaps fouling injectors, spark plugs, o2 sensors, ruining catalysts, etc.

and what are you trying to lubricate? pistons? shouldn't the crankcase oil take care of that fine if it's synthetic?

is this common practice in the racing world??

IceShark

Ben, I think the idea on adding automatic transmission fluid was concern of washing the oil off the piston walls if you flooded because the toulene is harder to ignite and as long as you are cooking up your own brew, what the hell, let's put in some more stuff.

The guys I know just add toulene and leave it at that.

Luke

[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Yellow 87 n/a:
<strong>YO!!</strong><hr></blockquote>


Yo

Danno

I don't think you need anything other than pure aromatic hydrocarbons to your Rocket Fuel. Most of the 104+ octane-in-can-cr*p that you get at auto parts stores have the organo-metallic octane booster (manganese-based usually), along with ATF as a lube and mineral-spirits thinner as cleaner.

This cocktail was cooked up because the octane-boosting component is 'dirty' and leaves deposits. The ATF helps your rings glide over these deposits and lubes your valve-seats as well. Then the mineral-spirits tries to clean off the deposits.

So that's another reason (besides minimal octane-boosting benefits) that you don't want to use those little bottles of 104+ type of stuff. Just say no...

Larry Parker

I currently runing 20% toulene mixed with 93oct
In my crx, that is gonna get a home brew turbo
Wheeeeeeee! So im gonna need that anti knock fuel
My turbo manifold is ready and have found all the ways to get extra fuel and coolant to the turbo so its just a matter of time before i got a bit of boost in my striped auto-x car