Is ANYTHING aftermarket legal in California?
03-20-2002, 01:18 AM
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Is ANYTHING aftermarket legal in California?
Quasi-rant, quasi-question coming your way. Why is it that any and (virtually) every aftermarket part that I want to put on my 951 requires a CARB EO?
Some quick background for you lucky ones who do not have to pass smog checks. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has basically said that any (exceptions, of course) part that is not built to OEM specifications requires an EO (Exemption, or Executive Order) in order for it to be legally acceptable for street use. What this means to us sad California boys (and girls... all three of you
) is that pretty much anything that the state of California has not put their seal of approval on, IS ILLEGAL!! 
I was able to navigate myself to this address: <a href="http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/devices.htm" target="_blank">Aftermarket Parts Device Type Listing of Executive Orders</a>, which lists all of the current EOs out for aftermarket parts. Guess what? There are maybe half a dozen products for our good ol' Water-Coolers that are actually CA legal! Thankfully, Dinan and Autothority chips are among those
I think that I'm probably missing something here and am humbling calling upon those more learned to educate me (i.e. John Anderson of SFR ). I know that there has to be some king of loop-hole around this whole CARB EO thing. I mean, can ANYBODY name off all of the Porsche tuners (not to mention all the ricer shops [which, for some strange reason, seem to be up to their Depends in EOs]) in California that install and sell all kinds of goodies that aren't on that list? According to the laws I've been reading the mechanics installing all this stuff are subject to prosecution! California says that selling or installing anything that doesn't have their good graces is a misdeamenor! What is this world coming to?
There has to be another explanation for the popularity of aftermarket tuning shops not getting raided like mid 1920s Speak-easies. I want to know what it is! I crave power... POWER! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> Sorry. I care about clean air and all that other stuff, but if the car is running clean, who cares if I'm using a high-flow catalytic converter!?
I think I've rather carried on long enough. This is my first real post (the Asheville one doesn't really count, I was feeling somewhat goofy) to this board, or any other for that matter. I think it's time that I get out and start interacting with other Porsche lovers (especially the 924/928/944/968 crowd). This is a great place for people to come together and my hat (were I wearing one) would be off to John D. for providing such a wonderful service to the online Porsche community.
So, if you'll forgive the absurd over-use of parentheses, my atrocious grammer and spelling (if I so happened to error in this missive), the sentences that just never seem to end, the venting and whinning, the blubber and the flubber, I'd be much obliged to hear your thoughts.
By the way, I should mention that I've yet to purchase a Porsche. When I do, I plan on getting an '88 Turbo S or an '89 (don't we all?). However, depending on the replies to this post and the revelation of just which mods are legal, and which are not, that could all change. After all, what's the point in paying a premium for an '88 Turbo S, when an '86 with the right modifications would blow it out of the water?(Please, don't answer that, I already know the answer)
Ack, I've rambled on too long... adieu, for now!
- Jon
Oh... I just had to add this:
It seems like one of the CARB EOs listed for Porsche autos is on file for 'Renegade Hybrids' (whom I've never heard of). This order is an exemption for an exhaust system for 911s, 914s or 924s with a legal 5.7L GM V8 engine swap!! I can only imagine what it would be like to have an '87 924S with a destroked 400 smallblock and a GT-Racing Carrera GTS full carbon fiber body kit
*Sigh* one can only dream...
Some quick background for you lucky ones who do not have to pass smog checks. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has basically said that any (exceptions, of course) part that is not built to OEM specifications requires an EO (Exemption, or Executive Order) in order for it to be legally acceptable for street use. What this means to us sad California boys (and girls... all three of you
) is that pretty much anything that the state of California has not put their seal of approval on, IS ILLEGAL!! I was able to navigate myself to this address: <a href="http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/devices.htm" target="_blank">Aftermarket Parts Device Type Listing of Executive Orders</a>, which lists all of the current EOs out for aftermarket parts. Guess what? There are maybe half a dozen products for our good ol' Water-Coolers that are actually CA legal! Thankfully, Dinan and Autothority chips are among those
I think that I'm probably missing something here and am humbling calling upon those more learned to educate me (i.e. John Anderson of SFR
). I know that there has to be some king of loop-hole around this whole CARB EO thing. I mean, can ANYBODY name off all of the Porsche tuners (not to mention all the ricer shops [which, for some strange reason, seem to be up to their Depends in EOs]) in California that install and sell all kinds of goodies that aren't on that list? According to the laws I've been reading the mechanics installing all this stuff are subject to prosecution! California says that selling or installing anything that doesn't have their good graces is a misdeamenor! What is this world coming to?There has to be another explanation for the popularity of aftermarket tuning shops not getting raided like mid 1920s Speak-easies. I want to know what it is! I crave power... POWER! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> Sorry. I care about clean air and all that other stuff, but if the car is running clean, who cares if I'm using a high-flow catalytic converter!?
I think I've rather carried on long enough. This is my first real post (the Asheville one doesn't really count, I was feeling somewhat goofy) to this board, or any other for that matter. I think it's time that I get out and start interacting with other Porsche lovers (especially the 924/928/944/968 crowd). This is a great place for people to come together and my hat (were I wearing one) would be off to John D. for providing such a wonderful service to the online Porsche community.
So, if you'll forgive the absurd over-use of parentheses, my atrocious grammer and spelling (if I so happened to error in this missive), the sentences that just never seem to end, the venting and whinning, the blubber and the flubber, I'd be much obliged to hear your thoughts.
By the way, I should mention that I've yet to purchase a Porsche. When I do, I plan on getting an '88 Turbo S or an '89 (don't we all?). However, depending on the replies to this post and the revelation of just which mods are legal, and which are not, that could all change. After all, what's the point in paying a premium for an '88 Turbo S, when an '86 with the right modifications would blow it out of the water?(Please, don't answer that, I already know the answer)
Ack, I've rambled on too long... adieu, for now!
- Jon
Oh... I just had to add this:
It seems like one of the CARB EOs listed for Porsche autos is on file for 'Renegade Hybrids' (whom I've never heard of). This order is an exemption for an exhaust system for 911s, 914s or 924s with a legal 5.7L GM V8 engine swap!! I can only imagine what it would be like to have an '87 924S with a destroked 400 smallblock and a GT-Racing Carrera GTS full carbon fiber body kit
*Sigh* one can only dream...
03-20-2002, 02:36 AM
#2
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Hmmm, one of my mottos is everything's legal until you get caught! And even then, it comes down to how good your attorney is!
If you go 'by the book' on Carb OEs as the 'allowable' list of modifications, it's like looking at the speed limit laws as 'allowable' behaviors; practically 110% of the population would be in violation of something some of the time...
What you want to go by, is what the people who will be busting you are looking for. That means the CHP who pulls you over for speeding and the smog-inspection station workers. The list includes:
"I think I've rather carried on long enough. This is my first real post (the Asheville one doesn't really count, I was feeling somewhat goofy) to this board, or any other for that matter. I think it's time that I get out and start interacting with other Porsche lovers (especially the 924/928/944/968 crowd). "
Great come on out and hang out with us on the <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=004556&p=" target="_blank">SFR Pizza Run</a> this coming weekend!
If you go 'by the book' on Carb OEs as the 'allowable' list of modifications, it's like looking at the speed limit laws as 'allowable' behaviors; practically 110% of the population would be in violation of something some of the time...
What you want to go by, is what the people who will be busting you are looking for. That means the CHP who pulls you over for speeding and the smog-inspection station workers. The list includes:
- catalytic converter (or look-alike)
- loud exhaust (very subjective on the side of the freeway)
- correct ignition as timed on cam sprocket
- correct idle speed
- TAC-Thermostatic Air Cleaner IS NOT required. When they try to flunk you for that K&N filter w/o Carb EO#, have them check their books to see that the 951 DOES NOT need a TAC.
- PCV is what they're really looking for
- evaporative canister
- sealed gas cap
- did I miss anything?...
- chip upgrade - they're not going to rip apart your computers to check your chips. Just make sure you turn down the fuel-pressure to pass the actual emissions testing.
- boost controllers - emissions test are done at idle and 2500rpm with no load; no boost will ever register, much less your max boost setting of 35psi.
- AFM/MAF/MAP sensors - they all look the same from a visual inspection. I even used the stock wiring harness for my MAF conversion so it looks completely stock.
- head work - the standard port/polish, 5-angle valve job with larger back-cut valves, trimmed stems, etc.
- exhaust downpipe, cat bypass & cat-back exhaust - as long as you have what looks like the stock catalytic converter, all mods are fair game.
"I think I've rather carried on long enough. This is my first real post (the Asheville one doesn't really count, I was feeling somewhat goofy) to this board, or any other for that matter. I think it's time that I get out and start interacting with other Porsche lovers (especially the 924/928/944/968 crowd). "
Great come on out and hang out with us on the <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=004556&p=" target="_blank">SFR Pizza Run</a> this coming weekend!
03-20-2002, 12:06 PM
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Well... I guess that'll work. After all, Porsches are pretty uncommon, and in the area I live in there probably aren't too many Mom-and-Pop Smog Shops that have seen a whole lot of 'em. I'll just hold on to all my OEM parts and if I do get stuck with a fix-it ticket, or if some schmuck fails me on visual, then I'll just stick the stuff back on.
[quote] Great come on out and hang out with us on the SFR Pizza Run this coming weekend! <hr></blockquote>
I'd love to come hang out with you guys, but that's a REALLY long drive for me to make (L.A. is 8 hours from here). Maybe next time we could all meet up somewhere a little more in the middle... say Fresno?
Catch ya later.
- Jon
[quote] Great come on out and hang out with us on the SFR Pizza Run this coming weekend! <hr></blockquote>
I'd love to come hang out with you guys, but that's a REALLY long drive for me to make (L.A. is 8 hours from here). Maybe next time we could all meet up somewhere a little more in the middle... say Fresno?
Catch ya later.
- Jon
03-20-2002, 06:20 PM
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jon: san francisco and sacramento have one mile difference in their distance to los angeles. you haven't seen the signs on the 5? and i take it you haven't been here long (in calif.)?
03-20-2002, 06:37 PM
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Actually, I've lived in California my whole life (20 years). One man's great distance, may not be quite so great to another. In any case, I'm saving for a 951. Spending a fortune on fuel, food and what-have-you is not conducive to such a schedule. Also, I've got a brand new 2001 Tacoma with less that 12k on the clock and I plan on keeping the miles low (so I can sell it once I get my 951) and the 800 mile round-trip, as much as I'd love to be there, really isn't worth just pizza and banter (no offense to any of you guys who're gonna be there, I really do wish I could, too!). I should also point out that I made no comparison to the distance from SFO to LA and SacTown to LA. You're really coming outta left field with that one...
- Jon
- Jon
03-20-2002, 06:48 PM
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whatever.. sf to la is SIX hours, but i understand your need to save $. this is precisely the reason why i'm not going (aside from the fact that my car won't start, but if i had the money i could get it to start and get my sorry *** down there, logical huh?)...
in any case, i'm just pissed off. no offence.
in any case, i'm just pissed off. no offence.
03-21-2002, 12:16 AM
#7
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Ok, let's plan ahead for the next NorCal Pizza Run then! Deni, I dub you the committee chairman for this event! Probably the weekend after Thanksgiving like last year! 
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03-21-2002, 01:40 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>Ok, let's plan ahead for the next NorCal Pizza Run then! Deni, I dub you the committee chairman for this event! Probably the weekend after Thanksgiving like last year!</strong><hr></blockquote>
NOOOOOOooooo
We can't wait that long! Let's do one next week ok, maybe not. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
How about in a couple of months or so. Modesto has this tradition the first Saturday after schools out. It's called Graffiti Weekend!. Cars galore. Not a lot of porsches. But, I like them all.
Or maybe Sun Jun 2 at Parts Heaven in Hayward. It's a great swap meet and car show. A Rennlist gathering would be even better. I got to get someone to buy my quarter panels.
Or maybe at a time trial or autocross, Or we could gather to root on Team DST in the Open Track Challenge <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <a href="http://www.opentrackchallenge.com/profiles/team951.htm" target="_blank">Team DST</a>
Thanksgiving is just too far away, (we can do that one too, I almost have all the branches pulled out from under the car.)
I wish I could join you guys in SD. It'd be nice to get some good tuning hands on my ArcII and AVC-R. Someone take lots of pictures. (with names this time )
DanD
<strong>Ok, let's plan ahead for the next NorCal Pizza Run then! Deni, I dub you the committee chairman for this event! Probably the weekend after Thanksgiving like last year!
</strong><hr></blockquote>NOOOOOOooooo
We can't wait that long! Let's do one next week
ok, maybe not. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> How about in a couple of months or so. Modesto has this tradition the first Saturday after schools out. It's called Graffiti Weekend!. Cars galore. Not a lot of porsches. But, I like them all.
Or maybe Sun Jun 2 at Parts Heaven in Hayward. It's a great swap meet and car show. A Rennlist gathering would be even better. I got to get someone to buy my quarter panels.
Or maybe at a time trial or autocross, Or we could gather to root on Team DST in the Open Track Challenge <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <a href="http://www.opentrackchallenge.com/profiles/team951.htm" target="_blank">Team DST</a>
Thanksgiving is just too far away, (we can do that one too, I almost have all the branches pulled out from under the car.)
I wish I could join you guys in SD. It'd be nice to get some good tuning hands on my ArcII and AVC-R. Someone take lots of pictures. (with names this time
)DanD
03-21-2002, 01:05 PM
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That'd be beyond awesome. Any meeting of half a dozen Rennlisters within 4 hours of my house I will be at. Bay Area's not to far and Modesto is definately a possibility. As long as you guys don't mind me pulling up in my lowered Tacoma w/ 16" rims & low-profile tires (no, I'm not Mexican 
). Anyway, if someone wants to get serious about organizing something, they should start another thread. All I've gotta say, is I'd definately be there.
- Jon
(no, I'm not Mexican ). Anyway, if someone wants to get serious about organizing something, they should start another thread. All I've gotta say, is I'd definately be there.- Jon
03-22-2002, 01:03 AM
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Jon, Too bad about the shave, but it is getting close to summertime. 70 degrees today, every little bit helps. Say, have you heard of blinker fluid? Usually around this time of year, things warm up and people get low on blinker fluid? The one I have in the backyard is probably fine, it's the one in the garage that I'm worried about. Most racers let it run low to try and save weight... I think it CARB legal 
When these guys get back, we'll start another thread, My choice would be for the second ButtonWillow leg of the Open Track Challenge. It would mean taking off that Friday, (I'm already planing on that..) I'm working on being at the PCA Time Trial the following day.
Friday, 5/17/02 Buttonwillow #14 CCW
DanD
<a href="http://members.rennlist.org/dan10101" target="_blank">Dan's Rennlist Web Site</a>
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
When these guys get back, we'll start another thread, My choice would be for the second ButtonWillow leg of the Open Track Challenge. It would mean taking off that Friday, (I'm already planing on that..) I'm working on being at the PCA Time Trial the following day.
Friday, 5/17/02 Buttonwillow #14 CCW
DanD
<a href="http://members.rennlist.org/dan10101" target="_blank">Dan's Rennlist Web Site</a>
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
03-22-2002, 01:08 AM
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Parts Heaven has a flea market? June 2nd? Very cool. I'm putting it in the palm pilot now.
I'm game for meeting up at Alices or anywhere in the SC mountains. Maybe I'll show up on my rice rocket so I can get past all the lane hogging german 4 wheelers
Cheers,
I'm game for meeting up at Alices or anywhere in the SC mountains. Maybe I'll show up on my rice rocket so I can get past all the lane hogging german 4 wheelers
Cheers,
03-22-2002, 01:17 AM
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ButtonWillow would be cool. Anything to get out of this stink town and see some Porsches!
As for the shave... while I was an unwilling victim, I think I'm becoming akin to it. In fact, I'm due to write a membership check to John D sometime next week... who knows what he'll shave this time?
Anyway, CA weather could be better, looking forward to a rained out weekend here in the valley <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> . I'm sure once Spring rolls around, there'll be plenty of Rennlisters, rolling 'round.
So, I'm fresh out of cheesy quips...
I'll put in for the time off work (they pay me to NOT come in 4 weeks of the year!). I was planning on getting out and about sometime in May and what better way to do it than by attending an auto-x!
- Jon
As for the shave... while I was an unwilling victim, I think I'm becoming akin to it. In fact, I'm due to write a membership check to John D sometime next week... who knows what he'll shave this time?
Anyway, CA weather could be better, looking forward to a rained out weekend here in the valley <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> . I'm sure once Spring rolls around, there'll be plenty of Rennlisters, rolling 'round.
So, I'm fresh out of cheesy quips...
I'll put in for the time off work (they pay me to NOT come in 4 weeks of the year!). I was planning on getting out and about sometime in May and what better way to do it than by attending an auto-x!
- Jon
03-22-2002, 01:55 AM
#13
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"Anyway, CA weather could be better, looking forward to a rained out weekend here in the valley
NO !!! I want RAIN and lots of it (at least the 2nd week in May)! I love racing in the rain!!!
NO !!! I want RAIN and lots of it (at least the 2nd week in May)! I love racing in the rain!!!
03-22-2002, 02:03 AM
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The Parts Heaven swap meet is great. They take a side street and block it off. There's booths (ok maybe blankets, but still there's 'stuff' as far as the eye can see. Well, almost. There's a concours and of course, Parts Heaven, if you're into old Porsche parts.
<a href="http://vista.pca.org/lpr/flyers/swapmeet.jpg" target="_blank">Parts Heaven Swap meet and Concours</a>
The OTC is a 7 day track event like the One Lap that they hold on the east coast. This is it's first year. So far, it's a hit. Danno and Jay are Team DST.
<a href="http://www.opentrackchallenge.com/profiles/team951.htm" target="_blank">Team DST</a>
Wayne Mello from <a href="http://www.nsxfiles.com" target="_blank">www.nsxfiles.com</a> is one of the other 944s that will be there. He seems to have the budget to make his 951 keep up with just about anyone. If he gets tired of that he can drive his Ferrari 360 Modena.
Doug and Wayne, the ones to beat.. Oh, I mean Team DST. ooops.
<a href="http://vista.pca.org/lpr/flyers/swapmeet.jpg" target="_blank">Parts Heaven Swap meet and Concours</a>
The OTC is a 7 day track event like the One Lap that they hold on the east coast. This is it's first year. So far, it's a hit. Danno and Jay are Team DST.
<a href="http://www.opentrackchallenge.com/profiles/team951.htm" target="_blank">Team DST</a>
Wayne Mello from <a href="http://www.nsxfiles.com" target="_blank">www.nsxfiles.com</a> is one of the other 944s that will be there. He seems to have the budget to make his 951 keep up with just about anyone. If he gets tired of that he can drive his Ferrari 360 Modena.
Doug and Wayne, the ones to beat.. Oh, I mean Team DST. ooops.
03-22-2002, 09:19 AM
#15
Race Director
"Wayne Mello from <a href="http://www.nsxfiles.com" target="_blank">www.nsxfiles.com</a> is one of the other 944s that will be there. He seems to have the budget to make his 951 keep up with just about anyone. "
I hung out with Wayne a couple of months ago at Willow Springs. He had told me about this deal he got off eBay; 24 racing slicks (Pirelli?) for $1000!!!
Anyway, his car is insane. Weighs something like 2300lbs. In his race, I saw him pass not one, but TWO Vipers!!! And he kept on going, pulling away from them. He would've won the race, but his shift-linkage locked up...
I hung out with Wayne a couple of months ago at Willow Springs. He had told me about this deal he got off eBay; 24 racing slicks (Pirelli?) for $1000!!!
Anyway, his car is insane. Weighs something like 2300lbs. In his race, I saw him pass not one, but TWO Vipers!!! And he kept on going, pulling away from them. He would've won the race, but his shift-linkage locked up...
