OT: Electronics Experts
11-09-2002, 12:43 PM
#1
Nordschleife Master
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OT: Electronics Experts
My computer monitor (KDS) is starting to go and of course it is out of free labor warranty, however, still in free parts. But it isn't worth it to send back as the shipping and labor will be the same as a new monitor.
The monitor failure mode is clicking power on and off every 1/2 second or so. I took the case off, blew out all the dust and fired it up. Seemed to work ok for a few hours then started again.
I found the offending relay (I think as it appears to be a simple wound coil and was clicking), which is not the main power in one but something else. Anyway, I banged on it with a screwdriver as it was clicking away and it stopped for the moment.
This doesn't sound like the relay itself is at fault but something sending the engagement signal. Though banging on it and making it work does make me wonder. What do I do, throw out the monitor and forget it or is there an easy way to track down the problem component.
The monitor failure mode is clicking power on and off every 1/2 second or so. I took the case off, blew out all the dust and fired it up. Seemed to work ok for a few hours then started again.
I found the offending relay (I think as it appears to be a simple wound coil and was clicking), which is not the main power in one but something else. Anyway, I banged on it with a screwdriver as it was clicking away and it stopped for the moment.
This doesn't sound like the relay itself is at fault but something sending the engagement signal. Though banging on it and making it work does make me wonder. What do I do, throw out the monitor and forget it or is there an easy way to track down the problem component.
11-09-2002, 01:05 PM
#2
Racer
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I would just get a new one, since they are so cheap now, and its not that safe to work on. Be careful inside that monitor poking around, if you hit one of those capacitors it could knock you unconsious or even worse kill you.
11-09-2002, 01:09 PM
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i had a somewhat similar problem, my crt wouldnt fire and then you'd hear a relay clicking away. out of curiousity i opened it up and looked at the main board and the soldering was horrible....i mean bad...but since the warranty i slapped it back together and took it back to the shop i bought it from (was a refurb when i bought it locally). i wasnt even going to try to make heads or tails of that mess w/o a schematic. when i dropped it off i asked the guy if he had schematics and layouts for all the different monitors he repairs. his answer was that he gets them online..but i didnt ask him the web address...try a search and see if you can get a schematic for your monitor. in my case he said he cleaned up some solder joints and replaced the power supply......im taking it w/ a grain of salt because his company did the original refurb so i dont want to know what type of duct tape ziptie job is going on in there.
11-09-2002, 02:59 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
A monitor can store thousands of volts even when they are un-plugged and left to sit for weeks. I would leave it alone and leave it to a professional to fix the monitor as you could be seriously hurt or even die if you were poking around in there. In order to discharge the monitor there is a special sequence you need to do. Just easier to purchase a new monitor in my opinion. I just bought a Sony 19" flat screen CRT for under $320 shipped. CRT monitors are going down in price because of the new flat panel (LCD) craze.
11-09-2002, 05:00 PM
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Dan - if you do decide to go with new, please drop me a note. I seem to scan the computer 'hot deals' sites a LOT and can usually find deals fairly easily (and in all price-ranges). Just let me know what range you're in, and what you'd like - I'll find ya a few options. 
It's the least I can do from here in return for some of the help you've offered (*chuckles* and are about to offer with the driving lights
)
It's the least I can do from here in return for some of the help you've offered (*chuckles* and are about to offer with the driving lights
)
11-10-2002, 03:37 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Yeah, I know about how you don't want to become the discharge path for capacitors! 
Anyway, I went out yesterday to the local stores to get the lay of the land and checked out the internet. Man, those flat LCDs are getting pretty nice. Some even have built in TVs.
My monitor finally went out totally and the screw driver banging trick only succeeded in creating a strong ozone smell. So I bought this new Envision 17" flat screen CRT for 99 bucks plus tax, after rebates. It's not too bad, at least as good as the old one. The plan is for it to last a year or so until the LCDs come down some more in price.
Thanks for the offer Brian, but I was SOL on my monitor by the time you posted so never saw it in time. You can help me out when it come time to do the LCD upgrade. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Anyway, I went out yesterday to the local stores to get the lay of the land and checked out the internet. Man, those flat LCDs are getting pretty nice. Some even have built in TVs.
My monitor finally went out totally and the screw driver banging trick only succeeded in creating a strong ozone smell. So I bought this new Envision 17" flat screen CRT for 99 bucks plus tax, after rebates. It's not too bad, at least as good as the old one. The plan is for it to last a year or so until the LCDs come down some more in price.
Thanks for the offer Brian, but I was SOL on my monitor by the time you posted so never saw it in time. You can help me out when it come time to do the LCD upgrade. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
11-10-2002, 04:03 PM
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Not a problem. 
I like LCDs... my home computer is set up with dual 17" black LCDs with one of those run to my KVM so I can just hit a button to cycle through the 3~4 other computers sitting by the desk (all using the same keyboard, mouse and monitor).
Yes, I am a computer geek! <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" /> <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
I like LCDs... my home computer is set up with dual 17" black LCDs with one of those run to my KVM so I can just hit a button to cycle through the 3~4 other computers sitting by the desk (all using the same keyboard, mouse and monitor). Yes, I am a computer geek! <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" /> <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
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11-10-2002, 11:47 PM
#8
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My POS monitor that came with a POS Packard Bell had a similar problem. It would work well for hours, seemed like till it got real good and warm, then POP, and off it went not to work again for 10 minutes, then began a downward spiral, 20 minutes POP, 15 POP, till it would have to sit overnight. Had one of the gurus at work look at it, but it was a hopeless case, so I turned it into a perfect oppurtunity to upgrade. Come to think of it, anything that breaks on my computer is a perfect oppurtunity to upgrade. 
11-10-2002, 11:55 PM
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I bought an Envision 19" for $200 ($150 after rebate) and it's pretty decent. The only problem I've had was that it took four months to get the rebate back (!) It's good for looking at PET in 1200x1024.
-Joel.
-Joel.
11-11-2002, 12:42 AM
#10
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Since we're offtopic --anyone know how I can have 2 moniters(crt's) on the same cpu? Sort of 2 17's creating one BIG screen. The eyes aren't what they used to be and I'm tired of squiting when I forget my glasses.
11-11-2002, 05:49 AM
#11
Race Director
"anyone know how I can have 2 moniters(crt's) on the same cpu?"
Piece of cake! Just get a second video-card and plug it in! Best to get the same brand/model as the first one you have in there so there's no video-driver sabotage. Then you'll need Win98SE or later, preferably a 'real' 32-bit OS like Win2k or XP.
On the first boot, Windows will detect the new card and ask for a driver disk. After copying the files off the CD/floppy, it'll ask to reboot again. This next time before the GUI comes up, you should see the DOS text-screen saying something like "Windows has loaded the driver for your monitor correctly..." on your second screen. When the GUI comes up, you'll have a second monitor! Then in the Display Control Panel, you can designate which screen is logically on the left or right. You can move your mouse off one screen's edge and it shows up on the next, neato...
Of course, the Mac had this capability back in 1984... 
Piece of cake! Just get a second video-card and plug it in! Best to get the same brand/model as the first one you have in there so there's no video-driver sabotage. Then you'll need Win98SE or later, preferably a 'real' 32-bit OS like Win2k or XP.
On the first boot, Windows will detect the new card and ask for a driver disk. After copying the files off the CD/floppy, it'll ask to reboot again. This next time before the GUI comes up, you should see the DOS text-screen saying something like "Windows has loaded the driver for your monitor correctly..." on your second screen. When the GUI comes up, you'll have a second monitor! Then in the Display Control Panel, you can designate which screen is logically on the left or right. You can move your mouse off one screen's edge and it shows up on the next, neato...
Of course, the Mac had this capability back in 1984...
11-11-2002, 12:23 PM
#12
Big thirst, Sore Thumbs
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Napoleon
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Napoleon
Just to chime in a little late.
The problem more than likely was your flyback transformer in the bad monitor. Opening up and tapping the relay didn't really do much. It was the turning off and cooling down that did more than anything. Though the relay could have been sticky and you were effecting two things at once.
Doesn't matter because in either case you did the proper thing in buying a new one. Rarely is it worth the money/effort to get a monitor fixed. But I would caution against getting inside one again. It is EXTREMELY dangerous. Take this from a guy who has had his hands in 35,000 video projectors.
"Of course, the Mac had this capability back in
1984..."
And Amiga and Unix boxen had the capability before that. And Windows not long after mac.
The problem more than likely was your flyback transformer in the bad monitor. Opening up and tapping the relay didn't really do much. It was the turning off and cooling down that did more than anything. Though the relay could have been sticky and you were effecting two things at once.
Doesn't matter because in either case you did the proper thing in buying a new one. Rarely is it worth the money/effort to get a monitor fixed. But I would caution against getting inside one again. It is EXTREMELY dangerous. Take this from a guy who has had his hands in 35,000 video projectors.
"Of course, the Mac had this capability back in
1984..."
And Amiga and Unix boxen had the capability before that. And Windows not long after mac.
11-11-2002, 12:38 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Sid, Since you seem to know a bit about this stuff, I do have a problem with this new monitor.
Everything gets squeezed down on the far right of the screen. It is like the font changes, the mouse pointer shrinks, etc. I played around with all the screen settings, downloaded the specific drivers, no help. Called Envision to find out what I was doing wrong and they told me to just take the thing back to CompUSA and get a new one.
Which I will do, unless this is just a normal problem for having a 99 buck monitor and you have to live with it.
Everything gets squeezed down on the far right of the screen. It is like the font changes, the mouse pointer shrinks, etc. I played around with all the screen settings, downloaded the specific drivers, no help. Called Envision to find out what I was doing wrong and they told me to just take the thing back to CompUSA and get a new one.
Which I will do, unless this is just a normal problem for having a 99 buck monitor and you have to live with it.
11-11-2002, 12:56 PM
#14
Big thirst, Sore Thumbs
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Napoleon
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Ice
There are two things that could be causing that problem. One is the monitor adjustments. re: the horizontal size, vertical size, position etc...
I know you say you adjusted them but adjusting them is an odd process. All adjustments affect other adjustments. Particularly size. If you stretch the image to far you can end up with what you describe in various areas of the monitor. It has to do with going past the headroom of certain components.
The procedure for adjusting your monitor should go like this.
1. Adjust horizontal and vertical size all the way down to the smallest, then bring the controls up about 25%.
2. Center the image as best possible.
3. Use your other adjustments, (skew, tilt, pinch or whatever you have available) To the best possible flat square image. The tube may be curved but the image should be flat.
4. Slowly increase your size alternating between vertical and horizontal until you get the largest image possible without any distotion anywhere.
Measure the horizontal image size and compare it to what the box/manual says it should be. If markedly smaller take it back and get a new one.
If when the image is at it's smallest + 25% you are still getting distortion it was not calibrated right at the factory. Take it back and get a new one.
You don't have any magnets near the monitor right?
You might also try hitting the de-gauss button/option. Actually try that first. Might clear it up.
BTW in my previous post I forgot the $ I have been inside allot of monitors but not 35k of them.
PS When you are increasing the size in step 4 you can make small changes in the other adjustments to make up for small distortions. Yes this can take a long time. We used to do large screen projectors in about 2 to 3 hours. Yours shouldn't take that long. We also had to converge (which fixes exactly the type of problem your having, but most monitors, specially $99 ones don't have that adjustment) in all 3 colors. Then go back and do everything again.
There are two things that could be causing that problem. One is the monitor adjustments. re: the horizontal size, vertical size, position etc...
I know you say you adjusted them but adjusting them is an odd process. All adjustments affect other adjustments. Particularly size. If you stretch the image to far you can end up with what you describe in various areas of the monitor. It has to do with going past the headroom of certain components.
The procedure for adjusting your monitor should go like this.
1. Adjust horizontal and vertical size all the way down to the smallest, then bring the controls up about 25%.
2. Center the image as best possible.
3. Use your other adjustments, (skew, tilt, pinch or whatever you have available) To the best possible flat square image. The tube may be curved but the image should be flat.
4. Slowly increase your size alternating between vertical and horizontal until you get the largest image possible without any distotion anywhere.
Measure the horizontal image size and compare it to what the box/manual says it should be. If markedly smaller take it back and get a new one.
If when the image is at it's smallest + 25% you are still getting distortion it was not calibrated right at the factory. Take it back and get a new one.
You don't have any magnets near the monitor right?
You might also try hitting the de-gauss button/option. Actually try that first. Might clear it up.
BTW in my previous post I forgot the $ I have been inside allot of monitors but not 35k of them.
PS When you are increasing the size in step 4 you can make small changes in the other adjustments to make up for small distortions. Yes this can take a long time. We used to do large screen projectors in about 2 to 3 hours. Yours shouldn't take that long. We also had to converge (which fixes exactly the type of problem your having, but most monitors, specially $99 ones don't have that adjustment) in all 3 colors. Then go back and do everything again.
11-11-2002, 01:23 PM
#15
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[quote]Originally posted by Danno:
<strong>
Piece of cake! Just get a second video-card and plug it in! Best to get the same brand/model as the first one you have in there so there's no video-driver sabotage.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe this is a good idea - but being who I am, I never intended to try it. Not only do I NOT have the same type of card, I have 2 cards from the 2 major camps (Nvidia/ATI) - one of them is a $300 high-end card and the other will just barely support 1280x1024 (which happens to be what the LCDs work with best anyway).
Why did I do this? Uhh.. the older card was free, laying around and unused. I'm to cheap to buy something new.
Also, the newest of the Nvidia (Gforce) chipped cards have dual ability on one card - you just need a DVI LCD or a converter.
I love my ~29" of horizontal real-estate.
<strong>
Piece of cake! Just get a second video-card and plug it in! Best to get the same brand/model as the first one you have in there so there's no video-driver sabotage.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe this is a good idea - but being who I am, I never intended to try it. Not only do I NOT have the same type of card, I have 2 cards from the 2 major camps (Nvidia/ATI) - one of them is a $300 high-end card and the other will just barely support 1280x1024 (which happens to be what the LCDs work with best anyway).
Why did I do this? Uhh.. the older card was free, laying around and unused.
I'm to cheap to buy something new.Also, the newest of the Nvidia (Gforce) chipped cards have dual ability on one card - you just need a DVI LCD or a converter.
I love my ~29" of horizontal real-estate.