odurandina

yes, i took a call today where the long time Rennlist member mentioned to me that i need to be much more careful in the way that i had presented Bob the Oil Guy's contrarian views about lubricating at start up vs the way many of us drive our 15-26 year cars. he obviously has a point.

obviously, i hope the oil threads don't cause any negative issues with anyone's cars.


reposting from the other thread;





according to Bob:


"...Some people have said they use thicker oils because they only use their cars every 2, 3 or 4 weeks. They are afraid that thin oils will fall off the engine parts and result in a lack of lubrication at startup.... oil on the surface of parts does not lubricate. It is the FLOW of oil between parts that lubricates...."




according to Bob a 30 weight synthetic is even heavier than a 10w-40 conventional mineral-based oil:


"This is worth repeating: The synthetic 10W-30 grade oil is based on a heavier 30 grade oil while the mineral based 10W-30 oil is based on a thinner 10 grade oil. They are both similar at operating temperatures yet the 30 grade based synthetic is actually less thick at startup and much less honey-like at low temperatures. This is the opposite of what common sense dictates...."





"It seems that many engines work best with multi-grade 30 weight grade oils. Others would do better with a 20 grade oil and few would require a 40 grade oil. You can only determine what is best by experimenting. Admittedly I did not think my Ferrari Maranello would need a 20 grade oil. In truth I could actually have used a 10 grade oil. A 0W-10 would be good but it simply does not exist for normal use. Red Line does make 2W, 5W and 10W oils (this acts as a 0W-10 multi-grade oil) but they are for racing only. One Formula 1 team has actually used these very oils off the shelf from Red Line."




i have to admit that seems pretty wild. and then Bob goes racing:


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...=article&id=79

n_hall

so if you go synthetic should you run something other than 20w50?

boston951

I went with 10W-40 Agip dino oil and added ZDDP Plus to protect the engine.

I drive my low mile car right up until the first snowstorm hits Beantown, so it does get cold. No synthetic because of sludge removal properties that i fear will lead to leaks in my original engine.

Not to start another "storage war" or anything, but I start my car up every month over the winter and the car is parked in an unheated garage. This led me to choose 10W-40 weight.

odurandina

i have been running Mobil 1 15w-50 for 3 summers and Mobil 1 0w-40, the 2 previous winters..... this is the third winter running the 0w-40. i have 50 thousand miles on this car since i got it and i run it very hard.... and 3 thousand miles on this fresh batch of the 0w-40... after such driving, no issues whatsoever... no noticable loss of oil pressure downconverting from the 50 weight oil in the cold weather. my engine has had the Mobil 1 since it was new, and the car now has 125 k miles.


i still want a bigger engine in my car, but, quite frankly i'm blown away by the performance of the 968 engine. it's the best 4-cylinder motor ever. and i'm super happy with the synthetic oil.


the 944 guys know way more about the 944 than i will ever know. they say run a thick oil. i think they are right.


for a 944, you may do better running Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-40 during the winter. read the bottle, or go to the Mobil 1 website, it sounds perfect for a 944..... i would run 15w-50 synthetic during the summer. that will be fine. the zddp additives extend the life of the synthetic oils to 15~18 thousand miles without any worries, so this is what you should top off with. you would want to be changing the filters at least every 6 thousand miles.


people talk about Mobil 1 taking out some of the additives that they once had in their oils.

that's true for some of their oils and not true for others. the Mobil 1 high mileage oils, extended perfomance, and the 0w-40 oil seems to still have the maximum additives. not 100 % sure, but that's what i've heard.

i take a lot of **** about this, but i'll stand by it. 0w-40, 10w-40 Mobil 1 oils are thick, super high tech oils. significantly thicker at operating temperature than conventional 10w-40 oils. but, there's even more of a difference between the syntheic and conventional oils after they run in your engine for a few thousand miles,


read the first 4 pages thoroughly. Bob the oil guy is telling the truth.

research what he says. his work is spot on. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/


at 212 degrees farenheit your 0w-40 oil is about a 12 weight oil.

your 20w-50 conventional oil about a 13 weight at that same temperature....


at the highest temperature your oil will ever see, about 300 degree farenheit,

the 0w-40 Mobil 1 is about a 4 weight oil. 20w-50 conventional oil about a 5 weight.

a few thousand miles later it's back down to a 4.


so by definition what does this represent ? a compromise right ? yes.


but when it's cold outside, the 0w-40 oil is already lubricating your engine at startup...


for normal driving operating temperature, having that Mobil 1 running in your engine is fine.


ask all the scientists. or see for yourself.... try this:


the next time we have a 20 degree overnight low...


let a bottle of 0w-40 and right next to it a bottle of conventional 20w-50 oil sit in your driveway overnight.


pour out a little of both bottles into an empty bottle.


now tell me which oil you want at startup when it's going down past 30 degrees.


synthetic oils are nothing like conventional oils.


i'm not some oil guru. what i've explained here is what all the research says.

Darwantae951

In case anyone doesn't have their owners manual, here is the page on oil:

odurandina

and that was 20 years ago.

the synthetics they have today blow the old mineral oils from the 1980s away.

in like 1983 my father took me in to the Anis Porsche dealer on Rt 9 in Framingham, Mass.

right there in the shop were the cases of Quaker State and Castrol.

Mobil 1's website lists for my engine, (1) grade of oil to run in the crankcase.

Mobil 1 0w-40 - also an approved oem Porsche oil.

when that oil starts burning, i will change to Mobil 1 high-mileage, 10w-40 for the winter.

and keep running the 15w-50 in the summer.

boston951

Thanks ModdedEverything951S for the owner's manual image. I was thinking that this may clear things up for those that don't possess.


So are our cars.

New technology is great, but the lack of ZDDP that comes with the modern oils is a potential problem. Our cars were designed to run on the oil of-the-day. That is why adding ZDDP to the newer oils is important and worth serious consideration.

Darwantae951

I didn't post the page to argue, I did so people who don't have it can at least see what others are talking about.

odurandina

it seems the Mobil 1 people did indeed use some loophole to leave the high ZDDP in some of the oils.

the 0w-40 has the higher levels of the stuff you guys want in your oil.

the 15w-50 has even more w/ 1200 ppm phosphorus, and 1300 ppm zinc,

why ? because the oil is designed for Porsches ? apparently, yes,

read the comments next to the oils.... another myth busted.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

scroll down and see the 3rd oil and the 8th oil on this PDF chart.

these are the two oils i run !! look at the numbers !! from Mobil 1 site:

http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/...otor_Oils.aspx

"The engine manufacturers are confident that this level of phosphorus will protect both new and older engines. However, there are Mobil 1 products which have a higher level of phosphorus (phos) and can be used in engines in racing or high performance applications...."



amazing.

Darwantae951

Of course, referencing the Mobil website won't be biased...

gtroth

I don't think anyone will be able to convince me that I don't want 0W year round - starts out closer to operating viscosity, winter or summer...

...unless I decide I've got to have -50 since they don't make 0W-50.

odurandina

Mobil came out with their new, 0w-50 racing oil recently. it's represents a "zero-compromise" oil for all winter usage.




the stuff has quite a bit more zddp than their other oils... Mobil says you don't want to be using it if you're running cats. anyway, those numbers look pretty scary.... it's a zero weight oil right ? "oh ****, my engine's gonna blow up !"

no, not exactly, it's a 50 weight oil, but it has far-better cold temperature flow than regular oil, (the "0" is simply a rating... meaning that it flows exactly the same in extreme cold as a straight 0 weight conventional oil flows).... and offers more protection than their 0w-40 oil or other 10w-40 conventional oils can offer... Mobil doesn't use trickery to attain those numbers. it's just the chemical propeties of the oil -- at operating temperature it's identical to a 15w-50 synthetic.....

$16/quart....

Mobil developed this new racing oil (and also thinner grades) for Formula 1 and other racing engines.... they claim their new 0w-50 offers the most protection of any motor oil on earth -- period.... unfortunately, it's more expensive to make, and will cost you about $16/quart, making it one of the the most expensive oils. *(castrol racing oil might still be more expensive). but, it should prevent sludge from building up (photos by jds on OT forum):

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...il-sludge.html



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V2Rocket

i have torn apart every type of 944/968 engine with mileage approaching 300,000 on some and have never seen anything like that. hell, my mazda with 160,000 miles looked like it came out of the factory but with just a nice gold color on everything.


i dont know what the definition of "cold weather" is for some of you but here in socal temps range from ~30 to 120F and 20W50 dinosaur blood has never failed. no lifter noise, ever. no sluggish running, and the only poor gas mileage is because ive permanently welded my foot to the floor.

LP944

I use 15W50 year round (from Florida) and my car seems to love it!

jep32

So what weight do I use in the Philadelphia area?? M1 15w-50? Right now, I use Brad Penn 20w-50, car has 47K original miles.....seems heavy in the colder months. 20 minutes to get to normal oil pressures (3 bar @ idle) even in the summer....?