'86 951... Repaint time
04-04-2002, 08:23 PM
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'86 951... Repaint time
Hey everyone, I'm going through the process of getting quotes for a repaint, and I thought I'd post the info here. If anyone has any suggestions or answers to my questions, they'd be much appreciated.
Here's the background:
Just bought a 86 951 with 133k miles on it. The paint is in pretty poor shape (typical of a NW car) and it needs some body work. There is dent on the left rocker panel in the front (it is slightly bent in), the rear just above the left taillight (small dent), and the right rear quarter panel (pretty smashed, just above the tire.) Needless to say I got the car cheap with the idea of painting it in mind.
Paint quotes:
I have gotten 2 real written quotes so far, 1 other where the guy actually looked at it but didn't write anything down, and a half dozen over the phone quotes. All of the shops are in Portland, Oregon. The quotes run the gamut from $3000 to $12,000! I have noticed that its hard to find a shop that's somewhere in-between an insurance body work shop, and a hot rod/custom shop (the latter being more expensive, and the former being less focused on full repaints/quality/timely return of car.)
The first written quote came in at $4500. The guy quoted me at $3000-3500 over the phone, which is where a lot of the quotes started, but it seems like once they see the 944, the numbers start going up. This quote included door jams, taking off the front bumper, taking out rear windows, etc.. It did not include sanding the sanding the body down to the metal (none of the quotes did.) He claimed that the curing process the body goes through when it is first painted helps prevent rust, and should not be removed. Instead they sand it down quite a bit, and go over everything that needs primer with primer (the other shops told me they use the same process.) He said it would probably take about 3-4 weeks, and he could fit me in right away.
Second guy came in higher at $5500. This was more of an insurance body shop, he didn't seem real excited about doing a repaint. I didn't talk to him much about his process, but his price didn't include the door jams. He did come recommended by a couple different people I have asked.
Last guy didn't give me a written quote, but guessed $4000-$5000. To do a full quote he wanted to keep the car for a day, really give it a run down, and make some calls on parts and what not. Definitely seemed like the most honest/thorough of the three. He pointed out several things that the other guys didn't (like replacing stone guard, and some of the molding that was damaged.) I'm going to bring the car back in there next week to get a full quote.
None of the people I talked with were interested in taking out all the windows. All of them used good paint, and had a clear coat/wet-sand process.
One more interesting note: I was just about to call the first guy and tell him I wanted to do it when a friend told me I should check his record the Better Business Bureau. I did, and found that his membership had been revoked to "maintain BBB reputation." Hmmmm... Suddenly he didn't sound like such a good option.
I was hoping to spend less than 4k on the repaint, but I guess with all the body work, that might be a little too much to ask for. I'd also rather spend an extra grand or so if it means I get a really good quality job.
Anyway, that's my research so far. Sorry for the long post, but I know how this type of information can come in handy to other people in the same position.
Any suggestions welcome!
Thanks,
-D
Here's the background:
Just bought a 86 951 with 133k miles on it. The paint is in pretty poor shape (typical of a NW car) and it needs some body work. There is dent on the left rocker panel in the front (it is slightly bent in), the rear just above the left taillight (small dent), and the right rear quarter panel (pretty smashed, just above the tire.) Needless to say I got the car cheap with the idea of painting it in mind.
Paint quotes:
I have gotten 2 real written quotes so far, 1 other where the guy actually looked at it but didn't write anything down, and a half dozen over the phone quotes. All of the shops are in Portland, Oregon. The quotes run the gamut from $3000 to $12,000! I have noticed that its hard to find a shop that's somewhere in-between an insurance body work shop, and a hot rod/custom shop (the latter being more expensive, and the former being less focused on full repaints/quality/timely return of car.)
The first written quote came in at $4500. The guy quoted me at $3000-3500 over the phone, which is where a lot of the quotes started, but it seems like once they see the 944, the numbers start going up. This quote included door jams, taking off the front bumper, taking out rear windows, etc.. It did not include sanding the sanding the body down to the metal (none of the quotes did.) He claimed that the curing process the body goes through when it is first painted helps prevent rust, and should not be removed. Instead they sand it down quite a bit, and go over everything that needs primer with primer (the other shops told me they use the same process.) He said it would probably take about 3-4 weeks, and he could fit me in right away.
Second guy came in higher at $5500. This was more of an insurance body shop, he didn't seem real excited about doing a repaint. I didn't talk to him much about his process, but his price didn't include the door jams. He did come recommended by a couple different people I have asked.
Last guy didn't give me a written quote, but guessed $4000-$5000. To do a full quote he wanted to keep the car for a day, really give it a run down, and make some calls on parts and what not. Definitely seemed like the most honest/thorough of the three. He pointed out several things that the other guys didn't (like replacing stone guard, and some of the molding that was damaged.) I'm going to bring the car back in there next week to get a full quote.
None of the people I talked with were interested in taking out all the windows. All of them used good paint, and had a clear coat/wet-sand process.
One more interesting note: I was just about to call the first guy and tell him I wanted to do it when a friend told me I should check his record the Better Business Bureau. I did, and found that his membership had been revoked to "maintain BBB reputation." Hmmmm... Suddenly he didn't sound like such a good option.
I was hoping to spend less than 4k on the repaint, but I guess with all the body work, that might be a little too much to ask for. I'd also rather spend an extra grand or so if it means I get a really good quality job.
Anyway, that's my research so far. Sorry for the long post, but I know how this type of information can come in handy to other people in the same position.
Any suggestions welcome!
Thanks,
-D
04-04-2002, 09:04 PM
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A normal, stock quality strip and re-paint, or etch and re-paint will run you about $5000 and a shop who cares. Call your local Porsche dealer and ask who the contract out to do body work on damaged cars under 5 years old.
My dealers out here use a very small shop, unlisted in the phone book. It is called Dave Orr's Autobody. He has a very plain 5 bay shop, and probably 15 cars on the lot. When I went for a quote on getting a dent out of my fender, they had just rolled out a black 993 TT. I know paint, and so do they. I could not find a flaw. He later told me it had been hit hard in the right rear, insurance totaled, and painted it for a friend.
Moral of the story is ask dealers in your area who they use, and then talk with the manager. Most time it is a mom and pop place like this one where they will shoot the breeze with you for a few hours while you wander around their shop.
And as far as what to have done. An etch and repaint is good. 90% of a good paint job is prep work. The more things you take off the car and tape off, the better. This way you have no paint lines, and everything from fender lips to door sills are painted. If it is done well, sometimes it is hard to tell if it was ever repainted.
My dealers out here use a very small shop, unlisted in the phone book. It is called Dave Orr's Autobody. He has a very plain 5 bay shop, and probably 15 cars on the lot. When I went for a quote on getting a dent out of my fender, they had just rolled out a black 993 TT. I know paint, and so do they. I could not find a flaw. He later told me it had been hit hard in the right rear, insurance totaled, and painted it for a friend.
Moral of the story is ask dealers in your area who they use, and then talk with the manager. Most time it is a mom and pop place like this one where they will shoot the breeze with you for a few hours while you wander around their shop.
And as far as what to have done. An etch and repaint is good. 90% of a good paint job is prep work. The more things you take off the car and tape off, the better. This way you have no paint lines, and everything from fender lips to door sills are painted. If it is done well, sometimes it is hard to tell if it was ever repainted.
04-04-2002, 09:05 PM
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Dax951
I'm doing the same thing my car's got 220+ on the milage so I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on paint.. I got a shop that dose ok work ( some orange peel ) so what I'm doing is stripping down the car myself. locks, door handles, side windows, hatch , bumperettes, side lights.. they are going to pull the dent in the left quater and use lead to fill it then sand and paint with Immaron paint.. I'm going to pay an extra $50 for a second coat of paint.. get the car back wait six months for the paint to cure then have a detail shop color wet sand it back to smooth.. should look great and I'll be into the paint job for about $1300 total
Matt
I'm doing the same thing my car's got 220+ on the milage so I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on paint.. I got a shop that dose ok work ( some orange peel ) so what I'm doing is stripping down the car myself. locks, door handles, side windows, hatch , bumperettes, side lights.. they are going to pull the dent in the left quater and use lead to fill it then sand and paint with Immaron paint.. I'm going to pay an extra $50 for a second coat of paint.. get the car back wait six months for the paint to cure then have a detail shop color wet sand it back to smooth.. should look great and I'll be into the paint job for about $1300 total
Matt
04-04-2002, 11:54 PM
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Paint should be color sanded and buffed no earlier than 3 days after shooting it, and ideally no more than 10 days. Color sanding it fresh is easier, and you get a better finish.
04-05-2002, 12:07 AM
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after i painted my recently aquired turbo front bumper (courtesy of SFR) i color sanded ONE day after letting it dry out in the sun.. i was doubtful about doing it so soon, but if your paint isnt very deep, then it is fine. didnt get any problems.. if your paint has ANY runs in it, its better to color sand when its not COMPLETELY cured because the paint comes out in GRITS rather than in DUST..
SHAUN
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04-05-2002, 02:13 AM
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They do seem to cost more than the car.
That is why i am going with mideast and doing it myself. Not the whole car, most of it is great. I have a hookup on getting paint through a local french car dealer, and i am painting it the same color (LAY1). I was just thinking about all of the work that goes into changing the color of your car.
That would really suck to do the engine bay and sorts of places like that.
I am just doing panel at a time. I'm doing the easy things like mirors and lights right now. Not the best thing to do, but definitly the cheapest in my case. It doesn't get much better than free.
That is why i am going with mideast and doing it myself. Not the whole car, most of it is great. I have a hookup on getting paint through a local french car dealer, and i am painting it the same color (LAY1). I was just thinking about all of the work that goes into changing the color of your car.
That would really suck to do the engine bay and sorts of places like that.I am just doing panel at a time. I'm doing the easy things like mirors and lights right now. Not the best thing to do, but definitly the cheapest in my case. It doesn't get much better than free.
04-05-2002, 03:05 AM
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Like other people seem to be saying:
Seems to me that if you had a ?$5k car, and you wanted to slap a ?$5k paint job on it, you could almost certainly find a nicer ?$10k car out there to buy. Unless you have some emotional attachment to your current one (I'm not mocking anyone who does, that's a reasonable thing) I would really think about A) living with it B) fixing little bits of if, not doing a whole repaint C) getting a new car.
Hell, for $10k, you can sure find some sweet looking turbos. With good paint even!
Seems to me that if you had a ?$5k car, and you wanted to slap a ?$5k paint job on it, you could almost certainly find a nicer ?$10k car out there to buy. Unless you have some emotional attachment to your current one (I'm not mocking anyone who does, that's a reasonable thing) I would really think about A) living with it B) fixing little bits of if, not doing a whole repaint C) getting a new car.
Hell, for $10k, you can sure find some sweet looking turbos. With good paint even!
04-05-2002, 03:47 AM
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I gave the PO 2700 for my 951, with the idea that it needed about 2k-3k in mechanical work, and a paint job. I considered waiting around for a turbo with a better paint job to become available, but to be honest with you, I don't know if it exists. I personally have not seen a 951 up here with much of a better paint job than the one I got. They just don't exist in the NW (or do they?)
All things considered, won't a car with a GOOD brand new paint job look better than one that's 16 years old? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like common sense to me...
I will take perry's advice and give the local Porsche dealer a call tomorrow... but I get the feeling I'm going to hear more numbers I won't like. I would think that the Porsche dealers are probably paying a pretty penny for the work they have done (wouldn't you for cars that are that expensive to start with?) We'll see though.
Thanks for everyone's comments!
All things considered, won't a car with a GOOD brand new paint job look better than one that's 16 years old? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like common sense to me...
I will take perry's advice and give the local Porsche dealer a call tomorrow... but I get the feeling I'm going to hear more numbers I won't like. I would think that the Porsche dealers are probably paying a pretty penny for the work they have done (wouldn't you for cars that are that expensive to start with?) We'll see though.
Thanks for everyone's comments!
04-05-2002, 03:58 AM
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why would you NEED a flex agent?
as long as the bumper is retaining its form and not being bent around, then you wouldnt need it.. the only plastic part on the car that actually is capable of MOVING enough to crack paint is the front spoiler.
if you REALLY want to get into that, you can buy many kinds of UNDERCOAT that will give you flexibility with the paint.. IE: "rubberized undercoat"
SHAUN
as long as the bumper is retaining its form and not being bent around, then you wouldnt need it.. the only plastic part on the car that actually is capable of MOVING enough to crack paint is the front spoiler.
if you REALLY want to get into that, you can buy many kinds of UNDERCOAT that will give you flexibility with the paint.. IE: "rubberized undercoat"
SHAUN
04-05-2002, 04:10 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by mideastmafia:
<strong>why would you NEED a flex agent?
as long as the bumper is retaining its form and not being bent around, then you wouldnt need it.. the only plastic part on the car that actually is capable of MOVING enough to crack paint is the front spoiler.
if you REALLY want to get into that, you can buy many kinds of UNDERCOAT that will give you flexibility with the paint.. IE: "rubberized undercoat"
SHAUN</strong><hr></blockquote>
DING... sorry, the rubberized undercoat stuff is for... get this, under the car. IE, the name undercoating
Pro paint shops add a flex agent to the paint when sparaying on any part that is not metal. So, if its plastic, fiberglass, carbon or whatever, you need a flex agent added to the paint. This lack of flex agent is the number one reason the low buck jobs look like crap after just a few months.
<strong>why would you NEED a flex agent?
as long as the bumper is retaining its form and not being bent around, then you wouldnt need it.. the only plastic part on the car that actually is capable of MOVING enough to crack paint is the front spoiler.
if you REALLY want to get into that, you can buy many kinds of UNDERCOAT that will give you flexibility with the paint.. IE: "rubberized undercoat"
SHAUN</strong><hr></blockquote>
DING... sorry, the rubberized undercoat stuff is for... get this, under the car. IE, the name undercoating
Pro paint shops add a flex agent to the paint when sparaying on any part that is not metal. So, if its plastic, fiberglass, carbon or whatever, you need a flex agent added to the paint. This lack of flex agent is the number one reason the low buck jobs look like crap after just a few months.
04-05-2002, 04:13 AM
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I posted a similar question on Pelican today...
This weekend grommit and I bought a black 86 951 (Actually I bought it and grommit lent me the money...lol). I'm looking to make this a serious bang for the buck car that can be run in the Silver State Challenge, but also be presentable for Pizza Runs, etc. Currently, the paint is shot (it was a bad repaint and color change).
The first step (besides wheels of course) is to paint the vehicle. Any cheap painting tips would be appreciated. Basically I don't have any fantasies about painting the car myself, but I'm looking forward to doing some of the prep work.
I took the car to 1-day and they quoted me $750 for a base and clear coat (in black). They also said that they'd have the car finished in 2 days (they use an oven).
According to 1-day, I can color sand the clear to bring the car out to a great finish. Apparently, their guys use 220 to rough the existing paint up and then paint over that.
My question there is what if the existing layer of paint is peeling? Do they just sand over that?
Anyone here know some prep basics that I should consider? I'm not going the $3500 paint route but I would like the car to look great and the finish to last for at least 5 years.
My plans are to remove the front bumper, turn signals, SR, batwing, hatch, rear 1/4 window and push the windshield seal up with some string. What do you guys think?
TIA
This weekend grommit and I bought a black 86 951 (Actually I bought it and grommit lent me the money...lol). I'm looking to make this a serious bang for the buck car that can be run in the Silver State Challenge, but also be presentable for Pizza Runs, etc. Currently, the paint is shot (it was a bad repaint and color change).
The first step (besides wheels of course) is to paint the vehicle. Any cheap painting tips would be appreciated. Basically I don't have any fantasies about painting the car myself, but I'm looking forward to doing some of the prep work.
I took the car to 1-day and they quoted me $750 for a base and clear coat (in black). They also said that they'd have the car finished in 2 days (they use an oven).
According to 1-day, I can color sand the clear to bring the car out to a great finish. Apparently, their guys use 220 to rough the existing paint up and then paint over that.
My question there is what if the existing layer of paint is peeling? Do they just sand over that?
Anyone here know some prep basics that I should consider? I'm not going the $3500 paint route but I would like the car to look great and the finish to last for at least 5 years.
My plans are to remove the front bumper, turn signals, SR, batwing, hatch, rear 1/4 window and push the windshield seal up with some string. What do you guys think?
TIA
04-05-2002, 04:26 AM
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AKA... Peterson publishing.. the guys who spit out things like "Hot Rod" magazine and the likes, print an excelent soft cover book on basic car paint and bodywork tips and tricks. It's a must read before you try this stuff yourself as it will help you get the most bang for your hard earnd dollar. The shop you mention that does the 220 thing... Just say no... you can get better results if you prep the car yourself... Ask some of the ahemm "Rice guys" who shot the paint...(dont waste your tiem on teh fancy cars, ask teh simple ones.. they are more likely to share some true info... just dont let them know you are a p-car driver) you never know, it could be from a local guy working out of a home type shop that will cut you a deal if the car is preped and ready to go... so, get a book or magazine... check web sites and set a realistic value for your happyness... try something like $1, 000 for the by "the time is was all done and over" price