cb944

First off, let me say I generally know what I'm doing mechanically with a car - I've worked on my cars a lot - but never needed to do much with suspension except replacing stock-for-stock.. so I'm a bit in the dark here. I've been reading up, but it seems a bit like everyone has different setups on their 944s and I'm not sure which way to go.... I think I could do with some help!

My 85.1 944 NA, just before I bought it, had Koni adjustable shocks fitted to the front. I've found the setup on these to be quite stiff, but never attempted to adjust them - and I don't know if the springs were replaced along with the shocks.

However, the rear has always been a lot softer than the front, so it feels a bit weird on the road where the front remains rock solid while the back wallows a bit. I don't think the shocks are too worn as they bounce correctly, I just don't get the feedback from the back of the car that I feel from the front.

I want to stiffen the back up and use the car on the occasional track day. Here's where I'm getting lost. I've heard of people replacing the rear torsion bar with a coilover setup, similarly I've read that you can put in coilovers alongside the torsion bar setup. Alternatively should I just get some stiffer shocks?

I've thought about swaybars as well, but I'm of the impression I'm really not going to see much difference if my suspension is bad to start with.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? What would be a good 'first step' to improving the ride which will open up more options further down the line as I begin to tinker with the suspension more? (which undoubtedly I will once I get started!)

Chris.

Potomac-Greg

My recommendation would be to go with a new set of shocks, AND buy an upgraded rear sway bar (M030). If you want to radically change the suspension, then that means changing the torsion bars, or removing them and going with coilovers, and that's a big job and investment. The torsion bar + coilover is not a good compromise (ask me how I know).

With new shocks and sway bar, you'll pick up a lot of handling, and if that's not enough, you can always move on with a stiffer torsion bar.

M758

First step is sway bars. However the key is balance between front and rear. If you don't have balance it could be a problem.

Stock springs are soft, but balanced front and rear.

Worn rear shocks can create a problem in balance. Also their could be difference in sway bars from stock. Stock the cars no rear bar, but they were an option. Get us the diameter of the front sway bar in millimeters and the rear bar.

Also if the previous owner put stiffer springs infront it could create a softer feeling rear.

So there is alot you can do, but first you need to know what you have now.

cb944

thanks for the advice.. maybe I should rethink the sway bars - I will definitely check out the diameters front and back (I'm *fairly* sure I have a rear sway bar... but I could be wrong). I'll report back once I know what I've got. I think the rest of the car is stock except for the front shocks.

Does anyone have experience of running Spax rear shocks like these:

http://www.design911.com/Adjustable-...urbo-/prod583/

They seem a pretty good price compared to Bilstien and Koni, which sort of worries me but at the same time I'd prefer to spend less than more!

Might take me a couple of days before I can get under the car and have a good look, but would like to order some decent shocks as a first step.

Thanks,

Chris.

roman944

what's your opinion on mixing sway bars? I've always heard the bigger, the better

how about 30mm M030 front and 22mm Weltmeister rear?

and as far as shocks, billstein HD or Koni? billsteins are a little cheaper, can the Paragon spring kit be used with billsteins?

M758

Get the Koni rear shocks. They are moderatly priced and work great. You can spend alot more and get better shocks, but the improvment will be alot more subtle and most 944 owners are not realdy to dump 2k just on shocks.

Roman,
Mixing sway bars is fine. However you can't just do it at radom. It needs to be part of a plan. If you are just looking to stiffen the car go with the mathcing pair. Either turbo bars, M030 bars, etc. If you are looking to adjust balance front to rear then mixing and matching work fine. However you need to know what balance is now and how you want it to change. The combination you chose may not get you the desired result.

On my 944 spec car I use Weltmeister adjustable sway bars front and rear. I adjust them to create the balance I want in race car. I am just starting to adjust them for each track I visit. This year for Nationals I will spend 1 entire day testing and adjusting bars to get the balacne that I think will make me fast. Last year that paid off, but this year I am running onthe RA1 instead of the R888. The differece will require some set-up changes so I cannot duplicate last years settings.

As for bigger being better it is not always the case. Over the years I have gone "Too stiff" on a sway bar and it makes the car handle worse rather than better. In general bigger means less body roll, but once you start tracking the car sway bars are but one tuning option. You infact need to evaluate all of them to properly set-up a car.

Most stock street cars will benefit from a set of Turbo sway bars.

Mark944na86

Overall balance is more important than the size of any one component.

If you stiffen up the front but not the rear, you will get understeer. If you stiffen up the back but not the front, you can get oversteer.

If you overstiffen everything, you might end up with a car that is good on the track, but thoroughly unsuited to street driving, etc.

So no, bigger isn't necessarily better.

Potomac-Greg

As noted, with a plan and a goal, mixing is fine. I have the M030 hollow bar up front and the MO30 adjustable in back (set to its firmest setting), and honestly, I think I would be better off going back to the stock bar up front. That's b/c I have hard enough springs up front (450#) that I really don't need the added stiffness of the big sway bar.

cb944

Thanks for all this info. It sounds like a good first step for me since I'm only just starting out on my suspension/handling adventure will be to get myself some bigger sway bars then, and some better rear shocks and take it from there.

Since I'm not entirely sure what's been done to the front, I guess once I've modified the back, I can see what affect it has, then take that info and decide the best way to balance it out.

Oddly, I'd say that the only thing I've ever experienced in this car is oversteer rather than any understeer (which would be expected with a softer rear?), however I think that would mainly be on power-on and with bad tyres. I know I need new tyres when I get the back out on roundabouts :P

I don't think I've ever really got near the limit on the road anyway, but I'm a member of a race club now and I really want to start taking part in some track days.

Thanks for all the info, it's really helpful

Eric_Oz_S2

Don't think this is completely true. I have coilovers with tbars, and provided you get the balance between the two correct (in terms of reindexing bars) they work really well. Admittedly, if you get this wrong the handling can get a bit funky.

Coilovers without tbars may be better, I just wasn't convinced about carrying all the load through that 14mm bolt, especially given the lever arm of the wheel loading on the bolt.

wchoffman

I have QA1 coil overs that i want to install on my 87 Porsche 944s. They don't fit right now so it looks like I need to extend the 14mm bolt to move the lower coilover mount out away from the control arm. Likewise need to add some bracketry or extent the upper bolt away from the side wall. The springs hit the control arm and prevent installation into the factory upper shock mount.

Anyone been here before??

Thanks
Bill


eporsche 944s

catamax944

Look here http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=25272

Funn944

I use 250lb Eibach front springs, Ground Control camber plates and struts (with Koni Sport inserts set to two clicks harder than full soft), Weltmeister Stage II front and rear sway bars and contol arm Poly bushings, stock rear torsion bars lowered all the way with the eccentrics. Got an aggresive 4 wheel alignment after it was all put together.
It's been a really good setup, on track and actually pretty comfortable on the street. I talked to the guys at Ground Control and they didn't feel that going to coil overs in the rear would of a great benefit.