Joining the opposition??(911?)
03-06-2002, 09:20 AM
#16
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Dear Dan,
I think you need to get out more and meet some normal 911 drivers. I drive a 911, daily driver all year. I do not own a rolex, I do not wear tan clothes except a 50th Anniversary of Porsche in Switzerland t-shirt and I know many other 911 drivers who you could never pick out. I have never seen a 911 driver dressed or acting in such a way. Now I admit that only covers Europe and my travels but the US guys I know who own and drive 911s are also not identifiable from your post. I think if you stop reading the nonsense and get out and meet people, only in rare cases will you meet the 911 driver that you seem to think we all are. There are posers out there driving all kinds of autos. However I believe they are the rare ones the vast majority are down to earth people, normal guys. Posts like I constantly read on this subject elevate us to places where we do not want to be and are not,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: I also own a 944 (well I gave it to my daughter).
I think you need to get out more and meet some normal 911 drivers. I drive a 911, daily driver all year. I do not own a rolex, I do not wear tan clothes except a 50th Anniversary of Porsche in Switzerland t-shirt and I know many other 911 drivers who you could never pick out. I have never seen a 911 driver dressed or acting in such a way. Now I admit that only covers Europe and my travels but the US guys I know who own and drive 911s are also not identifiable from your post. I think if you stop reading the nonsense and get out and meet people, only in rare cases will you meet the 911 driver that you seem to think we all are. There are posers out there driving all kinds of autos. However I believe they are the rare ones the vast majority are down to earth people, normal guys. Posts like I constantly read on this subject elevate us to places where we do not want to be and are not,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: I also own a 944 (well I gave it to my daughter).
03-06-2002, 11:12 AM
#17
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I agree - my garage will one day have an 89 951 next to an 80-something 930. Way before they went high-techno on her.
Adrian - you're daughter drives the 944? How cool is that!
Adrian - you're daughter drives the 944? How cool is that!
03-06-2002, 12:11 PM
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03-06-2002, 12:29 PM
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Dan P: Although I don't like generalizations, I won't disagree entirely with your post. Society quickly knows and identifies with 911's a Porsche's, and the infamous joke of "reverse porcupine" syndrome associated with Porsches. Her in San Diego the folks in the PCA, and who I've met from POC are really great people. It has been the people in the PCA that made me join the club, not the cars. Most of the people I meet, I don't know what kind of P-car they drive. They are all really great people.... with a few exceptions. For those rare few outside the 'great people' list.... those who give me grief about motor in the wrong place/what's with that water stuf/yada yada yada.... I just put their squirrelly rear-engine butts on the track with me..... they suddenly go real quiet. See "Justice at a time trial" that I posted earlier. Pictures say a thousand words.
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03-06-2002, 04:39 PM
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Dan P et at,
The crowd you describe more closely identifies the typical Corvette owner rather than the typical 911 owner. Just because someone may not prefer to eat hot dogs and drink beer at a cookout or have enough money to purchase a Rolex doesn't mean they are unapproachable or status conscious. Just because you may prefer to do something that may be less expensive or you don't want a Rolex doesn't make you a positive person or unconscious of status. I've got a news flash for you, people that can truly 'afford' a Rolex don't wear it for status. It sounds like you are made to feel bad by these so called 'status conscious' people. If you were as down to earth as claim 'most' of the 'waterboys' are, you wouldn't really care how the 911 owners dressed. When I was a PCA member in Jacksonville Florida most of the active members were 911 owners. It was rare that you would encounter someone as you have described. We had a few but they were very few. We also had a few 944 owners that obviously bought the cheapest Porsche they could buy so they could go around saying that they owned a Porsche.
Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason but I really hate it when someone makes grossgeneralizations to support their opinion. This is NOT personal and I don't have anything against Dan P or anyone else on this board but lay off the 911 crowd. What is the big damn deal? When I owned my 911 I never tried to make a 944 or 924 owner feel like they owned a lesser Porsche than I and were therefore unworthy. What the hell does that mean anyway? I appreciate the design of everything Porsche has built. Some of their products have been better than others, some I just prefer better than others. Porsche has made significant mistakes on all their models and have really boned up some basic construction issues. However, I still love these cars. Sorry for the rant.
Regards,
Max - (in typical Jim968 fashion, I am standing by with my flame-retardent undies)
The crowd you describe more closely identifies the typical Corvette owner rather than the typical 911 owner. Just because someone may not prefer to eat hot dogs and drink beer at a cookout or have enough money to purchase a Rolex doesn't mean they are unapproachable or status conscious. Just because you may prefer to do something that may be less expensive or you don't want a Rolex doesn't make you a positive person or unconscious of status. I've got a news flash for you, people that can truly 'afford' a Rolex don't wear it for status. It sounds like you are made to feel bad by these so called 'status conscious' people. If you were as down to earth as claim 'most' of the 'waterboys' are, you wouldn't really care how the 911 owners dressed. When I was a PCA member in Jacksonville Florida most of the active members were 911 owners. It was rare that you would encounter someone as you have described. We had a few but they were very few. We also had a few 944 owners that obviously bought the cheapest Porsche they could buy so they could go around saying that they owned a Porsche.
Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason but I really hate it when someone makes grossgeneralizations to support their opinion. This is NOT personal and I don't have anything against Dan P or anyone else on this board but lay off the 911 crowd. What is the big damn deal? When I owned my 911 I never tried to make a 944 or 924 owner feel like they owned a lesser Porsche than I and were therefore unworthy. What the hell does that mean anyway? I appreciate the design of everything Porsche has built. Some of their products have been better than others, some I just prefer better than others. Porsche has made significant mistakes on all their models and have really boned up some basic construction issues. However, I still love these cars. Sorry for the rant.
Regards,
Max - (in typical Jim968 fashion, I am standing by with my flame-retardent undies)
03-06-2002, 05:03 PM
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Ok, I started with a 993 as my first Porsche and then went to a 951 and a 964. Both cars are great cars but provide a different experience. I have placed my 951 twice for sale and twice I have taken it out because I simply enjoy the car too much (and yes, that also includes the joy of working to fix everything that goes wrong with it 
).
How do both cars compare?
I like the roughness of the 964 or 993. Although more civilized, they still feel rough, and I like that. By rough I mean that you can feel the road more, the car looks aggressive, handling characteristics are different, etc. A/C on both cars (964 and 951) is excellent. I enjoy the 951 for its neutral balance, comfort, and the looks (low and wide. Now that I think about it that is maybe why I also would like to own a Lotus… nah!! the wife would not let me have a two seater...). I would use either one as a daily driver.
As long as finance permits I will keep both cars and hope that I never be in a position to have to make a choice.
Adrian, in my case I have promise my wife that the 964 will go to my daughter and I will still keep the 951… … and a 993 (wishful thinking, you know! )
Porsche drivers? They come in all flavors. Just like any other sport car crowd. I agree, generalizations are just that, wrong from the beginning. I cannot judge a person by the car he/she drives. Once you know the folks, the majority are very nice people who enjoy driving/working on fast cars. That simple. The others, I listen to them and wish them a happy life. Humbling experiences do happen to a few of them and if not, well… I just make sure I do not fall in the same mistakes they do. Life is to short to focus on stuff like that, I rather enjoy life to the fullest and help people along the way.
).How do both cars compare?
I like the roughness of the 964 or 993. Although more civilized, they still feel rough, and I like that. By rough I mean that you can feel the road more, the car looks aggressive, handling characteristics are different, etc. A/C on both cars (964 and 951) is excellent. I enjoy the 951 for its neutral balance, comfort, and the looks (low and wide. Now that I think about it that is maybe why I also would like to own a Lotus… nah!! the wife would not let me have a two seater...). I would use either one as a daily driver.
As long as finance permits I will keep both cars and hope that I never be in a position to have to make a choice.
Adrian, in my case I have promise my wife that the 964 will go to my daughter and I will still keep the 951… … and a 993 (wishful thinking, you know! )
Porsche drivers? They come in all flavors. Just like any other sport car crowd. I agree, generalizations are just that, wrong from the beginning. I cannot judge a person by the car he/she drives. Once you know the folks, the majority are very nice people who enjoy driving/working on fast cars. That simple. The others, I listen to them and wish them a happy life. Humbling experiences do happen to a few of them and if not, well… I just make sure I do not fall in the same mistakes they do. Life is to short to focus on stuff like that, I rather enjoy life to the fullest and help people along the way.
03-06-2002, 09:42 PM
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This is an interesting topic, and one I think many early Porsche owners feel almost everyday. It seems no matter where you are with your car, and how happy you are to own it, you always seem to dream of the next stage or model you want.
This is my view on the subject. I have a 944 na currently btw.
In the 951 you are already in a 1986/7/8 Porsche which has many interior goodies over the SC. It also is years off being a VERY old car. Imagine in 5 years the 951 would be 20 years old. A 77 911 would be 30 years old. Frankly I couldn't see myself going from a 1986 car back to a 1979 car unless it was amazingly well looked after for a bargain price.
The next step up is to get a 911 that's the same year. It would be frustating to find so many features that are the same in both cars, when you pay so much more for the 911, but overall the 3.2 L engine would be a worthy upgrade from a 951 and probably worth upgrading to if the price was right again.
Upgrading to a more recent 911 is almost surely what I'd like to do. Put a big """" around like because it'll probably not happen, and at least won't happen for a while yet. A 964 model even though it has flaws is easily a worthy upgrade to a 951. You get technology upgrades, interior upgrades (a few) and a refined 911 motor and chassis. All good. Not cheap however.
On a side note the 928 S4 or GTS is almost the best of both worlds, however the prices seem to drop so badly all the time, it's hard to imagine it holding it's value as well as the 951 or 911.
Overall it's up to you to test drive anything and everything you can afford at the moment, and you'll be able to determine a lot better than what I or other people think.
My tip: If you get the SC, which sounds like it may happen, you'll be craving a Carerra or 964 before you know it.
Good luck, have fun test driving,
Sam.
This is my view on the subject. I have a 944 na currently btw.
In the 951 you are already in a 1986/7/8 Porsche which has many interior goodies over the SC. It also is years off being a VERY old car. Imagine in 5 years the 951 would be 20 years old. A 77 911 would be 30 years old. Frankly I couldn't see myself going from a 1986 car back to a 1979 car unless it was amazingly well looked after for a bargain price.
The next step up is to get a 911 that's the same year. It would be frustating to find so many features that are the same in both cars, when you pay so much more for the 911, but overall the 3.2 L engine would be a worthy upgrade from a 951 and probably worth upgrading to if the price was right again.
Upgrading to a more recent 911 is almost surely what I'd like to do. Put a big """" around like because it'll probably not happen, and at least won't happen for a while yet. A 964 model even though it has flaws is easily a worthy upgrade to a 951. You get technology upgrades, interior upgrades (a few) and a refined 911 motor and chassis. All good. Not cheap however.
On a side note the 928 S4 or GTS is almost the best of both worlds, however the prices seem to drop so badly all the time, it's hard to imagine it holding it's value as well as the 951 or 911.
Overall it's up to you to test drive anything and everything you can afford at the moment, and you'll be able to determine a lot better than what I or other people think.
My tip: If you get the SC, which sounds like it may happen, you'll be craving a Carerra or 964 before you know it.
Good luck, have fun test driving,
Sam.
03-07-2002, 12:12 AM
#24
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Sorry, guys.
Sorry, guys.
03-07-2002, 09:38 AM
#25
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Well guys, thanks for the responses--I didn't want to start a mini-war here between 911ers and 944ers. I typically don't post the "x" vs. "x" threads, but, to me, the 911 is just a foreign animal. I am familiar with the 924/944/928 and the 968--to some extent, but all the nuances of the 911 were/are unknown.I wasn't even thinking about a 911(although I have always liked the SC since seeing a blue 83 cab. back in the day) untill I started looking for a new car and realized that, what do you know, they are within my price range . Now, my searching for a replacement Porsche is starting to reach a fevered pitch and by throwing the SC into the mix(with the 951, and 928) I have even more research to conduct--I spent last night pouring through Excellence back-issues. I will still take my time and purchase the "right" car--I plan on holding on to the next one for a loong time--but my goal is to have one by the PVGP this July.(I don't think my F250 would look right in the Porsche paddock). So, once again, thanks all for the input--and if anyone knows of an SC without a tail, a 951(all years considered), or a 928(86.5-90) for sale, please give me a heads-up . I may even offer a "finder's fee" <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> .
PS One of my buddies has a Rolex, and it keeps such crappy time(after two trips to the jewelers) it now resides in his dresser drawer.
. Now, my searching for a replacement Porsche is starting to reach a fevered pitch and by throwing the SC into the mix(with the 951, and 928) I have even more research to conduct--I spent last night pouring through Excellence back-issues. I will still take my time and purchase the "right" car--I plan on holding on to the next one for a loong time--but my goal is to have one by the PVGP this July.(I don't think my F250 would look right in the Porsche paddock). So, once again, thanks all for the input--and if anyone knows of an SC without a tail, a 951(all years considered), or a 928(86.5-90) for sale, please give me a heads-up . I may even offer a "finder's fee" <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> .PS One of my buddies has a Rolex, and it keeps such crappy time(after two trips to the jewelers) it now resides in his dresser drawer.
03-07-2002, 10:06 AM
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Dan P,
My apologess for the typo. With regard to the rest of your comments and direct insults, I am not going to address them. I don't post to Rennlist for this type of interaction and I am saddened that it took this turn.
Regards,
Max
My apologess for the typo. With regard to the rest of your comments and direct insults, I am not going to address them. I don't post to Rennlist for this type of interaction and I am saddened that it took this turn.
Regards,
Max
03-07-2002, 10:15 AM
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Funny thing happened to me on the way to the forum today... LOL.. this is nearly the same discussion that Harley owners have with ricers.. except backwards.. The expensive harley owners are dressed in vests with gang logos on the back. I say get what you want! and drive the crap out of it..and Smile!
03-07-2002, 10:21 AM
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<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
