944J

what is the difference between

stock na brakes

951 brakes

951 S brakes

M030 brakes

I have an 1986 na with koni yellows all around and cross drilled rotors on the front. I'm wondering what I will really get by considering upgrades?

Waterguy

My understanding is that the N/A brakes are pretty good. However, the only direct bolt-on upgrades for a pre-1987 car are the '86 951 brakes (spindles and wheel offsets were changed in 1987 to accomodate ABS.) Somebody with experience needs to jump in and explain benefits and difficulties in adding later brakes to an early car.

Brakes used on 944s:

944 N/A, S, 924S: front 282.5 mm x 20.5 mm rotors, single piston calipers, 54 mm piston.
Rear 296 mm by 20 mm rotors, single piston calipers, 36 mm piston.

1986 951: front 298 mm x 28 mm rotors, four piston calipers, 2 x 36 mm + 2 x 38 mm.
Rear: 299 mm x 24 mm rotors, 4 pot calipers, 2 x 28 mm + 2 x 30 mm.

1987/88 951: front 298 mm x 28 mm rotors, four piston calipers, 2 x 36 mm + 2 x 40 mm, slightly larger master cylinder.
Rear: same as 1986 951

951 S2, 1990 951 (non-M030): same as 1987/88 951

1988 951S, 1989 951, 944 S2 with M030 & 1990 951 with M030: front 304 mm x 32 mm rotor, 4 pot calipers, 2 x 36 mm + 2 x 44 mm.
Rear: same as 1986-88 951.

ian

Ok well because there is only 20 min left at work I'll give the quick and dirty responce, i'm sure someone could post diamater and width of the rotors and the piston size in the calipers...

But anyway,

stock na brakes are single piston calipers with fairly small vented rotors.

turbo brakes add larger still vented rotors of course, but they also have brembo 4 piston calipers all around. (stayed the same for 86 to 88 except the piston sizes changed after 86 on the front calipers only IIRC)

turbo s and 89 brakes are one and the same with the M030 brakes, they again increaced the size of the rotor, whats most impvressive is the width now being 32mm over the 28mm of the preivous brakes. The include the S4 calipers which are also a brembo product, but are also larger.....

Edit: see I told you someone could it for you....

DangerIsland

I always thought the NAs were single piston, like Ian said.

944J

so here's what I get

na - 11.1 diameter rotors
951 - 11.7
s - 11.9

then you get .5 inch thicker rotors and more pistons with the S cars compared to the na.

doesnt seem to me like it makes sense to upgrade for a street car, even one with huge power?

am I wrong?

Waterguy

By golly, you're right DangerIsland, they are single piston. I guess that comes from having actually seen them. Post edited, thanks.

944J

yes, they are single... I've seen them recently...

what are people recommendations for a cool cool street car that will never see track?

Dave in Chicago

The brakes on the NA are more than one needs for the street. I flog the NA brakes at Road America all day and have only upgraded the pads.

Best street pads are probably the MetalMasters. They dust less, last longer, and wear pretty well. They don't seem to eat rotors either.

It's worthwhile to clean and lube the calipers every couple of years. Also, for street only, flush (not just bleed, but flush) the brakes with fresh fluid once every year of two. You'd be amazed how much gunk can build up in there.

I'm starting to sound like a "keep it stock" broken record, but the truth is a street car does not need any more brake than the rather competent ones Dr. Porsche installed.

DangerIsland

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 944J:
<strong>so here's what I get

na - 11.1 diameter rotors
951 - 11.7
s - 11.9

then you get .5 inch thicker rotors and more pistons with the S cars compared to the na.

doesnt seem to me like it makes sense to upgrade for a street car, even one with huge power?

am I wrong?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">The turbo brakes aren't "just" thicker rotors and more pistons. Those things make a huge difference. But for a street car, no, it's probably not worth it. More power means you need more brakes though, and when it comes to safety, it would be a bad idea to have more power than your brakes could handle, track or street.

wjk_glynn

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Dave Swanson:
<strong>I'm starting to sound like a "keep it stock" broken record, but the truth is a street car does not need any more brake than the rather competent ones Dr. Porsche installed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What you're saying is absolutely correct...

But let's not let logic and common sense get in the way

If you can afford to do it, the big reds/blacks are very nice.

Tome Pultz has a very nice write up at <a href="http://www.944s2.com/brakes/brakes.htm" target="_blank">http://www.944s2.com/brakes/brakes.htm</a>

Karl.

944J

those brakes would put me over my $500 limit for my whole car

scular

Saved by Rennlist archives again.

With a tape measure and the rotors still on the cars, it was too close a call to determine the difference in size between my NA and Turbo (parts car). Now I just need to decide which type of rotors to buy since the ones on the turbo are shot. Off to more archives.

Thanks

SCular

Shutemup

I have been wondering something about my brakes. PO said re-did them all around. They seem to work okay with out any problems. It just seems like they take a little more pressure on the brake pedal than I'm used to. They don't leak down and there isn't any air in the system.....just seems like it takes a little more pressure than it should. I suppose the 20 year old break booster could be the cause. Or maybe it's just that the pedal positing is ALOT different than I'm used to.

On the subject of brake boosters......way to expensive for me to be replacing with another stock unit.

Has anyone replaced one with a different unit with good results?

My 69 chevy p/u with 4 wheel drums and the corvette brake booster I installed comes to mind, worked great but 0 peddle feedback, if someone ever stole it......first stop sign they would have been on the hood...lol

tifosiman

On an early offset car, you can go larger than 86 951 front calipers. You need adapter brackets (sold by Powerhaus and others), and custom rotors, but you can bolt up 928S4 calipers or even Big Reds. You will also need 951 spindles/hubs, and 951 or late offset 944 struts. Don't forget the bias valve.

I have the S4 brakes on the front, and 951 on the rear. Are they overkill for street driving? Yes, especially if you drive the car in ANY rain (no ABS + huge brakes + lightweight = SCARY). For DE's and Auto-X? Maybe overkill, but NEVER any brake fade. For cool factor? A+.