Mr_Underhill

Does anyone here Autocross there front engine porsche? I have never raced before but i have some friends that are really into it and i would like to give it a try. So my question is how good would a 924/944 be in an autocross? it seems to me like the 924's body styling would alow for more shock travel without having the tire rub against the wheel well. but then again i really dont know much about this subject.

ian

The front engined porsche are good for auto-x because they are so balanced, you have a 50/50 balance. Auto-x is not about power, but more about handling, this is why a miata does so well.

If I had to pick a front driver to set up as an auto-x car, it would be an early 944 with as few options as possible. You would have the benifit of the wider track of the 944 (over the narrow 924) and would still be light weight.

But really nothing beats seat time, you can have the best setup car ever and still come in last on the time sheets because driver skill matters so much. When you are just started if you want to be competitive it is best to stay in the stock class, to do that you can change struts/shocks/tires/Wheels(if they are similar offset and size)/brake pads.

And as always the most important thing is to have fun.

exc911ence

I autocross my 87 924S and do very well with the car. The narrow track is not a liability even though you're limited to a 205 tire, but is a plus really when you are able to drive nearly straight through a slalom that the 944's are weaving their wide hips through. That, and the 250lbs or so less that you haul around in a 924S makes it a better autocross car. As for the early 924/924 Turbo, I have no experience with them so you're on your own. Still, no matter what car you choose, you'll have a blast at an autocross! Sure beats shining a showing a car.

Skip

I autocross heavily in my 86 944na (~20 events per year), though it is slightly modified. Out-of-the-box, the 944 does great as a stock car, but is usually classed mid-pack (with rotary Mazdas and early Civics beating them up). With some mild modifications to the suspension and tires/wheels you can have a very capable car. Best thing to do is drive it bone-stock first, then decide if that's for you. Then, choose the club and class that you'd most like to run with (SCCA, PCA, other) and build the car and your abilities to match that of the competition (or moreso as allowed by the rules).

The best bang-for-the-buck stock car = 88 924S/SE - lightweight 924 chassis, 160HP motor (same as ROW), Koni dampers, large stabilizers, etc.

Let your addiction be your guide I currently have a modified 944 that is set up for SCCA ITS Club Racing - next year I should be able to capture the regional SCCA CSP title, and be very competitive nationally - *IF* I can drive the car as fast at it will allow

Good Luck!

Skip

Mr_Underhill

Sounds good to me! i fully intend on autcrossing, be it in a 944/924 or someting else (although i hope its in a porsche). I live in southern california and plan on racing in SCCA events. But would also like to know how PCA events differ, and if there as much fun? Im not a current member of the PCA but with any luck i will be soon. Is it a good idea? I just have this mental picture of a group of rich 50 something execs drinking brandy, and talking about their 911's (joke). Im just currious as to what the general scence is like. I must sound like a total newbie....

Raceit

I just did my first AutoX event last Saturday and let me just say that I am hooked.

The one I went to was a PCA event. There was about 6 total cars. A 70's 911T, a real slant nose turbo, an Intrega, a Corvette, a go-cart (that was something to watch), and then mine.

I've got all season tires on my car and it had major oversteer. I couldn't grip worth anything, but I still pulled in a better time then the Corvette.

But it was a blast. Everyone was very cool and there to have a good time. However the SCCA is going to be a much more serious event.

If anyone's interested here is a Quicktime video my friend took of me as I ran to the finish line.

<a href="http://www.marsmonkey.com/images/autox/92102/movies/944S2%20Autocross.mov" target="_blank">944S2 Autocross.mov</a> (3.0MG's)
(Right Click and Save As for the Video)

RS 2.7

the vid didnt work for me....but youre right, after your first time you are hooked!

M758

These cars make great Autocrossers.

I have been doing PCA Ax in my 84 for 2 years. I it has been consistanly a top 4-5 car overall. (Unfortuantly no TTOD... driver maybe?? )
I first started it with Kumho Victoracers, 100% stock suspention & OEM shocks and completly gutted. It has been in the top 4-5 ever since. I was two seconds FASTER in it vs than my stock 944 turbo S on street tires.
Since them I have upgraded the suspension for track duty & added in all race safety equipment. It is not longer ideal for Ax since I have a track set-up on it, but I could easily adjust it and make it an autocross killer if I really wanted to. It still will run top 4-5 overall in my local region even with a more Race biased set-up.


Bottomline.... great cars that only need stiffer springs in stock weight to perform really well with all other competitors in Ax.

Raceit

[quote]Originally posted by RS 2.7:
<strong>the vid didnt work for me....but youre right, after your first time you are hooked!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry about the vid. I think you'll have to right click on it and select save as. To save it to your hard drive.

rfuerst

I went to my first autocross yesterday,I did not compete but just observed.After watching 2 Boxsters smoke everyone there I started to get the itch.I think I am going to run this weekend.Good luck to all that try. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

FirstPorsche

I just ran my first PCA autocross yesterday in Massachusetts. What a great time! I am running street tires and I still have not figured out what pressures to run. The car ran great and handles well (except for A LOT of body roll).

I have Michelin Pilot XGT V4 all season 215/60-15's. I noticed the gentleman who whupped me was using Yokohama AV1-60i's in the same size with a wear rating of 160. My tires have a wear rating of 300. Does this make a big difference in their "stickiness?"

Also, my car did not come with a rear sway bar. Can I retrofit one to my car and still be "stock?"
Thanks!

M758

Autocross times are all about tire grip. Going from hard street tires to sticky street tires to super sticky DOT "R" compound race tires makes a huge difference.

I can't say that 300 vs 160 WILL be a stickier tire, but most likely yes.

Treadwear ratings are slighly different from all Makers of tire and are not always directly compareable. Grip & treadwear rating are not exactly relately, but are close. Typically when tires have more grip they also wear faster and thus have a lower treadwear rating.

My Kumho Victoracers have a rating 50. They stick like glue on the ax course and HOT glue on race track when hot. They have only lasted me about 500-600 miles though .

I believe you can add a sway bar IF it its a factory part avalilbe as an option on you car. Putting one that was not optional in you car MAY be a different mater. Then again sometimes you can change sway bars legal and still remain stock. Need to check your rules to find out for sure.

AutoXdriver

[quote]Originally posted by Raceit:
<strong>The one I went to was a PCA event. There was about 6 total cars. A 70's 911T, a real slant nose turbo, an Intrega, a Corvette, a go-cart (that was something to watch), and then mine.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

6 cars??? Man you are so lucky. The autocrosses I go to usually have 100-120 cars and you hand there from 8am to 4-5pm in the hot sun and get 3-4 60 sec. runs. Sure its still worth it but 6 cars? Can I come? ;-)

Raceit

[quote]Originally posted by AutoXdriver:
<strong>

6 cars??? Man you are so lucky. The autocrosses I go to usually have 100-120 cars and you hand there from 8am to 4-5pm in the hot sun and get 3-4 60 sec. runs. Sure its still worth it but 6 cars? Can I come? ;-)</strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL Sure!!!


Actually with only 6 cars you barely have enough time to run to the john before you have your next run. We finished up at Noon BTW.

Mark Parker

Yesterday I competed in my seventh SCCA AutoX, and I'm hopelessly addicted. With helpful advice early-on from folks here on the board (thanks Skip)and folks at the events here locally, plus having attended a one day course followed the next day by an event, I can confidently say,,,I still got a lot to learn,,but I'm definitely gettin' better. My overall position has come steadily up from the bottom to just north of mid pack. I have to give props here to the local SCCA for running these events with profesionalism and skill. We regularly run 120 cars and 130 competitors, first car out at 11:00 am, everybody gets 5 runs, and by no later than 6:15, trophys have been awarded and we're on our way home. I like running against all comers, as do the guys in the local Porsche club who represent very well. You'll see everything from the B mods and Vipers to a '75 Ford Galaxie, looking like a renegade from the roundy round tracks, but don't laugh, the dude will dust your *** with it. Oh, and pickup trucks,,,a couple of late '90's S-10s are always competetive. As far as the 944. Autox really doesn't seem top be its natural habitat. Our cars were built for raw speed as much as handling and the very nature of autox is to regulate speed, so the Jap cars seem to be better suited to it,,,, there's an absolute infestation of Miatas and Civics at the events. But that's not to say that German iron doesn't do very well,,both Porsches and BMWs represent themselves well, depending a lot on the course layout for the day. We seem to do better with a more open, faster course, the kind which favor the Corvettes. For strictly autox purposes, the NAs seem to have the advantage over the turbos, because in stock trim the turbos spend as much time in lag as in boost, and the only one I've competed against (who runs B stock as opposed to my E stock)I've consistently run several seconds better. It's come to the end of the points season this year, although there are still two fun events scheduled, but I've got my plan for next year. The guy who's owned E stock this year (in a Miata) has preached at me for the last three events to break down and get a set of Hoosiers. He tells me that he too was reluctant to spend that kind of money, but after he did, he wondered why he resisted. That's just the kind of folks you'll meet at autox, a man who might have every reason not to give me advice is telling me how he thinks I can be faster. No matter what you finally get, get something and go autocross. I think you'll love it. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />