ZW 944

I'm looking to replace my struts and shocks for my '87 944 and have heard various things about different products.

I am looking for a suspension that provides roughly the same level of ride harshness as stock (not very harsh), but is better through the corners. Adjustability is nice because a. I love to tinker, and b. because some days I would prefer different ride characteristics. One thing to take into consideration is that I live in Ohio, the land of potholes and washboard roads. Would a stiffer/more compliant suspension lend itself towards better handling on these roads? I would also like to lower the front of the car 1' or so to give it less of a "highboy" stance. (I think the rear of my car is already lower by about an inch. would putting in new shocks/coils w tbars raise the rear back up?)


Here are the 4 main setups that I am considering:

The Koni hacksaw conversion setup from paragon --- Cost:$500-$600

Ground control full coilover setup --- Cost $1800

Ground control full coilover w/ double adj. fronts --- Cost: $2000

KW V3 coilovers from design911.uk --- Cost : $2300

Anything higher than the KWs will be probably too expensive.


Which of these products will most likely fit my needs? Any of these setups will also be run with the 968 M030 anti-sway bars. cost is a player here, for example if the KWs are only going to be a marginally better setup than the regular koni's then I'll take the koni's. If there are any other setups that I should look into, I'd love to know more about them.

This car is 100% astreet car at the moment, but I am planning on letting it see the occasional track day / DE / autocross this summer.

Van

Used Turbo S suspension.

Reimu

Konis

Anything else on your car is probably overkill, keep in mind these cars are known for their stock handling that has kept up with cars today. You don't have to go all out on a car that won't see much tracktime.

schwank

For a street 944 NA you don't need more than Konis with a height adjustment kit. IMHO. Heck most of us running NA cars race on them. Turbo suspension would be an upgrade too, but would likely need a rebuild if it hasn't been already which will add to cost. I am particular like that so your mileage may vary.

If you want to up the front spring rate you'll need to compensate with rear torsion bar upgrades. Also, to drop a full inch you will likely need to reindex the torsion bars anyway. Also look into 968 caster blocks as the 87 rubber ones have a lot of play in them after 23 years.

My opinion would be konis with ride height kit, with sway bars, caster blocks, uprated rear torsion bars (turbo or bigger) to match uprated front springs, and bushings front and rear. Don't skimp and use the old rubber... get new ones.

Given all the other stuff to upgrade while you are doing these jobs, konis are cheaper will be fine for your intended use.

Grandpa#3

What kind of front struts do have on your car now? If you have torn up roads with pot holes I sure would not lower the front end with 250# springs. The below is the cheapest place I've found for Koni's.

http://www.proamauto.com/koni.htm

Cheers,
Larry

arthropraxis

Paragon is $70 cheaper for a full set.

333pg333

Well I will say that there is 2 ways to look at this dilemma. For sure everyone is saying it's just a road going NA so why waste good money on expensive suspension especially as it's not going to see the track very often...and they're fair enough points. However I would contend that since you are driving your car on the road 99% of the time, and roads are hardly ever as smooth as circuits, then why drive around in a car with jarring suspension all day long. I've been in cars with basic Konis. Uprated Konis. Rebuilt Mo30 stuff etc and it's all hard and uncomfortable compared to KWs. Having been in my friends NA with modified Konis and approx 250lb/in springs all rubber bushings, 15" Fuchs and 45 series tyres, I couldn't believe how much harder and totally uncomfortable it was compared to my car with all metal bushings, 30 series R spec rubber on 18"s, adj camber plates and KW race suspension with 650/720 spring rates. So dial that back to the V3s and it would be way more drivable than mine yet way better handling than your stock Konis or even all the almost as expensive GC stuff.

Just saying.....

ZW 944

Ok, so by these posts, that more or less rules out the GC kits...

I cant seem to find anywhere that sells the new rubber pieces other than elephantracing, and they are quite costly themselves how important is it to replace these parts? I know that 20 year old rubber for the most part is no good anymore. Would the monoballs and polybronze stuff from ER also be worthwhile looking at?

I am not all certian that I would need to lower the rear if I lowered the front, as the rear seems to ride lower than the front as it is (measured 25" from the ground to wheel arch as compared to 26.5" in the front) If I opt for either the KW's which retain the torsion bars, or the Konis which keep the torsion bars would I need to reindex them? I want to do all the work myself, and that would cut back on alot of it

Oh, and Van, thanks for the suggestion, but I think I'd really prefer new as my car already knows how 20 years can take its toll on struts/shocks... plus wouldn't that require hubs/spindles/brakes too? as my car isn't M030.

Van

No, you can bolt on M030 struts, shocks and sway bars on to an NA suspension (I've done it before).

Why I suggested that is you really want to do it as a package - dampers, springs and sway bars. Just changing struts and or shocks, if you're not going to modify the spring rates or sways, will do little to reach your ultimate goal.

In my opinion, they factory spent a bit of time and effort to maximize the handling characteristics of the 944, but preserve the street compliance characteristics, with the M030 suspension on the turbo.

Just my 2 cents - otherwise, I see you going down a slippery slope of spending money! You'll do new coilovers in the front for a few grand, then you'll be converting the rear to coil overs for a few more grand, then you'll be getting adjustable sway bars... Then you'll try to adjust all of these components to work well together - and in the end, you'll have spent far more money than picking up some racer's discarded set (and having them rebuilt) and far more time than just bolting on parts that some very qualified engineers decided was a good combination.

ZW 944

Good, thoughts this too I shall keep in mind.

Quick queston: As my car has no rear sway bar right now, I realize to add one I need the droplinks and according to Paragon, whataver this is (http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/sb6910.htm). the question is, will the car need an alignment after installing?

Also, the reason that I would rather either not touch the t bars / delete them is due to how these mods will be done at home - (minus the alignment) and would prefer not to mess with them.

Van

I'll sell you a 17mm rear sway bar and all of the hardware you need for $75. Installing it will not affect your alignment.

ZW 944

Well, I'd really prefer a pair, and in a larger diameter -- I'd rather not be left wanting to upgrade again.

thanks but no thanks,

Van

No problem - you could always keep the hardware (drop links, camber eccentrics, brackets, nuts and bolts) and use it with a larger bar in the future.

originalmotorhead

FYI, all KONI stuff is 25% off at paragon right now. go to their website and take a gander and save yourself some money. (I did)

Tom

ZW 944

I know, that is an incentive, but I don't think I'll have the time to swap anything at least untill spring break And I want to take some time to research and gather opinions so that I may make the best decision.