Check it out at huntleyracing.com, I guess there in the final stages of finishing theirs? Available Jan 1st. Over 300HP the claim from a S2 motor? hmmmmmm...

 

Does SFR have dyno sheets yet?

 

Yellow, this is not the thread to be asking that question.
But to answer it. - No not yet.

 

Yeah, I shoudnt have asked that here. I'm just thankful that I was not involved in that 100+ post flamefest last week. I'm surprised it has cooled down.

 

Hmmm, 300hp from an S2 motor, eh? That would mean boost in the range of 8psi w/intercooler. Interesting to see how the dyno chart turns out.

 

Danno, it's not that big'a'deal really. I think the S2 had 208HP? So you'd only need to boost the power 32% to achieve 300HP. =).

 

the guys at SFR said that it is possible to get upto 100% power increase with their chargers. That means upto 300hp on a 944 NA. thats their top of the line one for 5500 but still.....i'd like to see what they will do with 968/944s2 chargers they are developing now.

 

I know for a fact that Derrek did not make 300hp! In a telephone conversation with him about two weeks ago, he made 40-45hp and thats it. He's been claiming 380 in the local pca magazine, but its not going to happen. I hope he didn't paint himself into a corner on this one. It would be bad for all if he continues making claims that cannot be proven safely. This will put a doubt on everyones product and thats not good as Tim and i have spent many long nights and days getting our system just right. And no, we have not posted numbers yet. its only because we do not want to p[ost numbers that are too high and not safe...or too low...until we get about 10 more hours on the dyno. At this point, we have played with many different pully sizes to experiment at different boost levels. We turn our own pullys so the process is a bit longer than just buying a preset off the shelf pully...after all, we are dealing with 1 psi tolerances.

Not to start a flame, but I really want you guys to know whats up.

Take Care!

 

Going back to the turbo/supercharger spread sheet from Howard Chu which, I calculate with no supercharger, 90% VE, 6000 RPM HP max, about 175 RWHP at 70 F. This corresponds to 210 Flywheel which is close to the book. I add 5 psi boost and no improvement in VE and I calculate 220 RWHP.

If you upcam which I am doing now, the VE should improve about 5% and RPM range extended to VE of 95% at 6200 RPM. I calculate 230 Flywheel and 195 RWHP. This is pretty much in agreement with Garrity's impression of the Elgin mild cam. Note, I had to go up in RPM as well to get the full 20 Flywheel HP increase.

We now add the same 5 psi boost supercharger to the upcammed engine and we get 280 Flywheel and 240 RWHP. Of some concern, the fuel autoignition temperature of 725 is lower than the final compressed temperature of 768 F. Timing retard needed!!

You definitely want lower compression than 10.9:1 running for a supercharged motor. I used this value but I expect the running compression is less a la slight Miller cycle.

To John and all, I am going to predict for S2's about 210-220 RWHP and 260 Flywheel for a 5 psi, safe engine with no upcamming and no reduction in compression.

Patrick Perkins

88 Turbo S (in valve job and turbo upgrade)
90 S2 (undergoing upcamming)
90 S2 (rebuilt wreck, Porsche truck)
70 914-6 conversion, (still in garage with 240 HP Flywheel MFI motor waiting for assembly)

 

Yeah, definitely needs an intercooler. Maybe my 8psi needed for 300rwhp is a passing fancy on the S2. The most I've seen 10.8:1 Hondas do on boost is 5-6psi. But there are TONS of those guys running around, so I wouldn't doubt that's also possible on the S2. But 300rwhp? I'll believe it when I see the dyno chart. And considering it's taken me more than 18-months of calling and cajoling Huntley to try and get a dyno-chart of my actual run with my actual car at the dyno shop. And yet still no dyno chart, so I'm guessing getting a chart of vapor-ware is going to be even tougher.

 

Personally, I'm getting a little peeved at all of the HR/SFR claims with ZERO proof in the form of dyno sheets.

Red S2 brings about the core of the issue here. No matter what you claim your upgrades can do, there is nothing that will defy the laws of physics and the equations dealing with turning gasoline into power. No supercharged 944 or 944 S2 is going to make 300 RWHP at 5-8 psi boost without doing something -really- radical to the engine design to improve volumetric efficiency, or by increasing redline to super-high numbers (can you say S2000?)

Greg

 

I would just like to say that the only claim that I have seen made by HR is a 40% gain. This is consistant with 6psi, at least according to the Super Charger FAQ that claims HPafter = ((14.7 + boost)/14.7)*HPbefore. Though they do note that "This is an estimate, not an exact calculation so take it for what it is worth. In reality, it will likely be just a bit less than that due to inefficiencies and air density losses due to heating".

 

Hi Greg,

I understand your getting peeved at companies that won't back up their claims...thats precisely why SFR has not mad a HP claim. All we have made public to this point are the efficiency uotes on the SC's themselves. I know its in poor judgement to throw numbers out there as huntley has been doing...they started with 380HP in the windblown witness PCA mag, then in a call to me, it was an improvement of 45hp, now its back to just 300hp total...on the same kit? You ask, how is this??? My answere, Huntley does not know what the numbers are. I prefer not to follow in their footseps and would rather wait for the numbers we truely find. Infact, it won't be a bunch of internet hype when we make the final tuneing. We would like to invite everyone thats close enough to make it, to the dyno and I'll give the group the date. We plan to make a day of it. BBQ, door prizes etc etc...DANNO, your expected as our friend to be there!!!! I know you would mot miss this :-)

Take care all!

 

Hey John, I live in SoCal but San Diego isn't really my cup of tea (LA area here)! Sounds like a fun day planned though. Would one of the door prizes be a SFR SC maybe? *wink wink* That would make me a definite guest!

 

FYI

Not to get in the middle of SFR and Huntley (since they're both good friends), I thought I'd just point out a small clarification:

Huntley claims 300HP with their kit. They didn't say 300HP at the wheels. This means 300HP at the crank.

S2's and 968's make 208HP and 236HP respectively. If you add 40% to that, what do you get? ...."do the math"...


If you look at every engine that the aftermarket tuners bolt on superchargers to (mazda, honda, chevy, ford, etc...), they all get around 40%-50% increase in HP/TQ with approx. 6-7 psi boost on otherwise stock normally aspirated motors.

So... it's very reasonable to expect exactly what every Honda, Chevy, Ford, Miata, Porsche(993) etc.. gets when they bolt on blowers pushing 6-7 psi.

I'm not going to enter the debate, I'm just stating facts.