My944Turbo

$5,988, that's right, local market value of my 87 944 Turbo is only $5,988. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

K, now the better part, they add money for things I have on the car like:
$625 low miles
$53 Power Door locks
$53 Power Steering
$53 for something else
$212 Leather seats
$80 for something else
$106 CD player
$319 Power Sunroof
$106 Driver's Airbag
$80 Passenger's Airbag
$265 Antilock Brakes
$89 Dealer ready paint
$166 Dealer ready body
$268 immaculate interior

This totals to $7,950, plus I get 7.46% tax, of $632.09, transfer fee, $9.50...
So with everything it totaled $9,114.59...then of course my deductible of $1,000 + 10% of all damages..(that hurt) -$1,911.50
So the check if I gave them the car would be $7,203.09....but I want my car back so she is going to call me back with a salvage value of my car after she makes some phone calls.

I just thought that my list my help anyone else who was dealing with insurance, as this is what they did for me. Now my problem, I know some of you think the ending value of 9K is fair, but if you saw my car and knew that I have over, well let's just say there is a lot of money in my car, i'm not so sure this is the greatest deal. I can probably fix it, but then I still have that salvage title that kind of ruins everything. Oh well, I guess I'll wait till she tells me how much to buy the car back.

Do you guys think this is a fair amount of money? And, NO, NO, NO, <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> i'm not parting out my car so don't ask for parts.

Thanks guys... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

tifosiman

That bites ***. I think anyone that loves these cars and does any improvements on them is going to get hosed if a claim ever becomes necessary. I would be royally hosed due to my N/A status.

But, I've been down your road before with a XR4Ti modded to full Cosworth specs. It was totalled and I had a huge battle with the insurance company, and ended up with about half of my money back....

You might want to do what Perry951 did, get the max amount you could get without them giving it a salvage title.

Tifo

Dave in Chicago

When I became a PCA member, I was able to get a letter from PCA, suitable for insurance valuation, with real prices on real cars (versus any Bluebook nonesense). You might want to find someone who has such a letter for your vehicle (mine is for the '88 NA, think it valued car at about $7,920 average 2.5 years ago). Now, a Turbo, today, ???.

Keep the shiny side up,

Mike S.

My944TURBO,

I also did what Dave did. Then I sent a copy to my insurance agent. IIRC the PC valuation letter gave a range and some gross description of what percent of cars fall into each range. I think my '88 Turbo S (which is excellent condition) came in with a market valuation of about $18K. The blue book values grossly underestimates the market value of very nice examples.

For the most part, forget about the "what I have into the car" logic. An insurance company generally has clauses and limits that will prevent you from getting meaningful reimbursement on many items that are enthusiast improvements.

Not that the following info will help you with your current dilema, but you can get an Agreed Market Value policy from insurance companies who write limited use or classic car policies. State Farm for example will write this policy (at least in NY) when a car gets to be 15 years old. Other companies use 20 or 25 years. Leyland-West has no age limit to my knowledge.

If you know that $9K is definately light, you'll need to substantiate it's value and that burden will fall to you. The PCA letter is a good start.

Give us some more particulars on your car so we can develop an idea of it's value. Also, how bad was the fire? For instance, if you get $6K plus the car back with a salvage title, can it be restored to original health for the $6K? Of course a salvage title is an albatross. How about ask for $6k, the car with a salvage title, and then part it out for $5K. So many options.

Mike

cruise98

My944turbo:

I have an 87 951, and the PCA valuation in April of 1999 was $12,820. At the time it had 115k miles on it and was in great condition.

Ask the insurance company to replace the car with one in similar condition/mileage and maybe they will get a reality check. So, your deductible applies to the comprehensive too?

I am very sorry to hear your tale.

Get up a thorough parts list and price it out so you know for sure where you are. If it burned for long, there are sure to be hidden issues.

Jon-D

Did you happen to keep any recipes for any modifications you made to the car itself? If you did, take those numbers, subtract them from the cost of the OEM parts, and then present the figures to the insurance company. You may get them to reimburse you the difference in cost. Depending on what type of coverage you have (probably bare-minimum by the looks of your deductable ), some insurance companies cover, not just the car, but anything in the car that is damaged or stolen. Check your policy to see exactly what is covered and what you can definitely get money for.

Jon

triscadek

Since they are required to make you whole on a claim . I like the idea of having them find you another in like condition for that price. It would be a reality check. When my Accord got hit they offered to find me another.

My944Turbo

First off, thanks for all the responses guys, I appreciate every one of them. I didn't get a chance to address everything, so i'm sorry but trust me, i've read all of it, and all are good suggestions.

tifosiman: Sorry about your other car, I think I might get a chance to know how you feel... , and I should probably try and do what perry did, but we'll see.

Dave: I ordered the evaluation last thursday, but it hasn't come yet...

Mike: I'll have to look into that agreed upon market value later, but I don't think that works on salvaged titles.
Now the fire wasn't that bad, i'll have to explain later, (it's 3:30am here and i'm tired, so i'll explain the fire later...ex-girlfriend came over--but that is a whole other topic) <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> ,but if one wasn't real **** like me, and didn't care what the engine looked like, but just that it ran...my guess, $2,000 and it would run perfect, a little ugly but perfect. Heck, to be honest I bet for $2,000 most people wouldn't even know there was a fire, except me.
For $6,600 in parts I could replace everything the fire touched with new OEM parts...but that might be even too **** for me. As for what is all on my car, i'll do that soon too, but to be honest, I still can't figure out how I have over $20k into it, and not much to show... As for parting the car out, not a chance in...well you know that hot place where bad people go...yeah that place.

cruise98: Thanks for the $$#, I wish PCA would send my evaluation quicker. And yes, my deductible applies to comprehensive and collision, and I used to think of myself as intelligent, but with that deductible you would never know...

Jon: I've got my receipts, but the original adjuster said that they wouldn't matter much, cause I could just take them out of the car before I gave it to them, hence, no more money for me. And I can't find my policy statement for the life of me...DOH.

triscadek:I think since they know I want to keep it, telling them to find me a car in like condition might be a waste. However, I might ask her anyway and see if she gets my point. Besides they don't seem to care that I just put 17" chrome C2 wheels on it, and yes they are the OEM ones, I called the dealer and the rears are like $800 a piece

Again guys, thanks for the replies, i'll keep you updated...even if you don't want to know. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

triscadek

FWIW to run down some "market values" traderonline searches bargain post and cars.com searches newspaper ads.

When the Accord got hit they just went on local values.

UDPride

How does PCA do those evaluations? They send someone out? I just registered with PCA today so obviously I dont have paperwork yet for a couple weeks. I signed up if for no others reason to get my 951 properly valued. That lone could save me oodles. Im wondering what mine could be worth. See signature.

DMB

Sorry to hear about your loss. Recently my '87 944 N/A was hit pretty hard on the drivers side. The car was declared a loss.
I've been fighting with the insurance company just like you. For my 87 N/A they offered something around $7k for the whole car, which included about $400 for the recent upgrades/mods (mostly suspension related with receipts totaling ~$4500).
I have Allstate, which refuses to pay out anything other than the stock car as it came from the factory. I provided them the PCA evaluation, which they completely dismissed,. They also dismissed the the market evaluation I sent them from Excellence.
Stay strong, I am still working on mine and it has been 6 weeks now! At this point, I am debating to see what car they can find to replace mine or if I can get another 944 and take the salvage and part it out to make up the difference.
Good luck.

David

Dan Gallagher

in your pca evaluation does the pca care about upgrades (engine, suspension etc.) or after market cosmetics ? or do they just care about the condition of the car

UDPride

DMB-

I used that exact tactic when someone totaled my Integra GS-R and they wanted to give me $4500 and I wanted $5200. I was aruging with the total morons at Progressive. After two weeks of arguing over it, they wouldnt budge a nickel past $4900, so I told them if they could find me the exact same year, model, and color Integra GS-R, in the exact same condition, with the exact same mileage, with the exact same vehicle paperwork history, with the exact same options, I'd take the car instead of the money and they could pocket the difference. We settled on $5200 about 30 seconds after that.

Insurance companies, while they may have differing policies on aftermarket options, must insure the vehicle's factory trim at the very least. That includes all the options on it -- even if certain factory options dramatically inflate the car's value over similar vehicles.

If my 951 gets totaled, I want another Graphite Metallic, and there are damn few floating around. However big or small, theres a value there my insurance agency must be prepared to pay. Or they will have to find me one in the same condition in a different color and repaint it for me. You just have to play hardball with insurance folks. Car insurance people think they are Gods gift to intelligence and whatever they say is law. Ive got news for them. Its only law if I agree to it -- and it may not mean diddily squat if some technical legality is buried in 40 pages of fine print either. Once you send the message to insurance folks that you are the one calling the shots, they usually put their tail between their legs and back down.

Part of the problem with Blue Book is it hands a price to vehicles like ours that have niche markets with niche buying habits. If you put your Porsche for sale at the end of your driveway, you may get KBB. Market it where PORSCHE ENTHUSIASTS live and breathe, and you'll get a lot more for it. I mean, you dont sell ice to Eskimoes for criminy. Most people wouldnt pay $50,000 for a Ferrari, but Ferrari folks will throw down 250 large ones. Why? Because you are targeting their lifestyle. Any good salesman knows that. Unfortunately, insurance folks are predispostioned to think you are inherently stupid and will try to sell your Porsche in the worst neighborhood in Harlem rather than Manhattan.

OK end of sidebar. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

DMB

Hi Dan,

The PCA valuation does not really include particular modications. It is more of a general valuation based on condition. The most important thing they point out in the letter is that the valuation is only useful when combined with a statement from other knowledgable people familar with the car, a mechanic, PCA officals, etc.
The letter states, "This is the reason the PCA Valuation Committee was formed: to determine the market value of the typical, 'well maintained' PCA Porsche as a function of condition of the car."
The valuation form for my 1987 944 goes into detail about how PCA determines the value. They include a Nationwide search of Newspapers (NY, LA, DC, Denver, Atlanta, Houston, Chicago, Seattle), Hemmings, Panorama, and NADA Blue Book.
They go on to say they ignore anything listed as a parts car or a wreck. The drop the highest and the lowest values. Everything else is averaged, and they apply a standard statistical model to determine the high and low end of the market.

For my valuation dated July 2002:
Lower Price of $6160
Average Price of $8460
Upper Price of $10750

There you have it. Of course at this point, Allstate completely, and totally dismisses the valuation. This is the current source of my stalemate.

David

DMB

I just called Allstate to tell them instead of paying out the claim that I wanted them to find me a similar car in similar condition and trim.
NO. My claim agent said that he has never heard of it and that they would do no such thing!
Argh! The fun never stops!

David