Mods to Increase N/A power???
08-28-2002, 10:35 PM
#61
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[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
<strong>
Besides, what would you pay for a blower? 5K? Crap, for 5K you could have a NA 250 rear wheel engine. Just as much power as the blower, without the mess.
:-)</strong><hr></blockquote>
What if you spent 5 k for a 250 rwhp 944 then you got a supercharger? You're talkin about big power
<strong>
Besides, what would you pay for a blower? 5K? Crap, for 5K you could have a NA 250 rear wheel engine. Just as much power as the blower, without the mess.
:-)</strong><hr></blockquote>
What if you spent 5 k for a 250 rwhp 944 then you got a supercharger? You're talkin about big power
08-28-2002, 11:56 PM
#62
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by originalsterm:
<strong>Manning-
bhp is at the crank, if someone puts their CAR on a dyno, that is wheel horsepower. I have seen usually around 20% loss from the crank to the wheels.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are actually brake dynos that attach to the drive wheel hubs, but you're right, bhp typically refers to crank hp.
<strong>Manning-
bhp is at the crank, if someone puts their CAR on a dyno, that is wheel horsepower. I have seen usually around 20% loss from the crank to the wheels.</strong><hr></blockquote>
There are actually brake dynos that attach to the drive wheel hubs, but you're right, bhp typically refers to crank hp.
08-28-2002, 11:58 PM
#63
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>
There are actually brake dynos that attach to the drive wheel hubs, but you're right, bhp typically refers to crank hp.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's why I included CAR in my quote.
<strong>
There are actually brake dynos that attach to the drive wheel hubs, but you're right, bhp typically refers to crank hp.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's why I included CAR in my quote.
08-28-2002, 11:59 PM
#64
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Paul Bloomberg:
<strong>I HAVE dyno'd the chip in question. I have seen other charts too! It actually lost power due to the fact that is was too rich. Maybe it was rich due to the improved VE of the bolt ons of my car.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, improved VE would result in a leaner mixture, unless you have an MAF which will adjust for changes in VE.
<strong>I HAVE dyno'd the chip in question. I have seen other charts too! It actually lost power due to the fact that is was too rich. Maybe it was rich due to the improved VE of the bolt ons of my car.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, improved VE would result in a leaner mixture, unless you have an MAF which will adjust for changes in VE.
08-29-2002, 12:05 AM
#65
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Paul Bloomberg:
<strong>I HAVE dyno'd the chip in question. I have seen other charts too! It actually lost power due to the fact that is was too rich. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You know, with all the 944 Cup and 944 Spec cars floating around now, perhaps we can find someone to make a race chip for a car with intake, header, and race gas. It would take some dyno tuning, but it sure would be nice. I'd like to have something other than a performance chip for pump gas (assuming additional advanced timing would yeild additional power with race gas). In any event, it would be nice to have a well developed chip for racing. The Cup and Spec cars are close enough to IT that it should work well with a proper IT engine.
<strong>I HAVE dyno'd the chip in question. I have seen other charts too! It actually lost power due to the fact that is was too rich. </strong><hr></blockquote>
You know, with all the 944 Cup and 944 Spec cars floating around now, perhaps we can find someone to make a race chip for a car with intake, header, and race gas. It would take some dyno tuning, but it sure would be nice. I'd like to have something other than a performance chip for pump gas (assuming additional advanced timing would yeild additional power with race gas). In any event, it would be nice to have a well developed chip for racing. The Cup and Spec cars are close enough to IT that it should work well with a proper IT engine.
08-29-2002, 12:31 AM
#66
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I tried to work with the chip maker to make a race chip after I shared the disappointing results with him. After not hearing from him for a month after he told me he would work on it and send me a chip.
After not hearing from him again, When I did contact him he became insulting and questioning the guy that works on my cars tuning ability(which was the biggest joke of all). After some RANTING he finally offered to refund two hundred dollars. Which I thought was the right thing to do but alittle too late after the insults and the BS. I figured he of needed that $200 far more than I do!
So no race chip! You would think that with the series gaining popularity across the country just some advance for the race gas would net a gain.
Paul
After not hearing from him again, When I did contact him he became insulting and questioning the guy that works on my cars tuning ability(which was the biggest joke of all). After some RANTING he finally offered to refund two hundred dollars. Which I thought was the right thing to do but alittle too late after the insults and the BS. I figured he of needed that $200 far more than I do!
So no race chip! You would think that with the series gaining popularity across the country just some advance for the race gas would net a gain.
Paul
08-29-2002, 12:37 AM
#67
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by Paul Bloomberg:
<strong>Dave,
Where did I say ALL chips are BS? I don't remember that. This was also w/multiple runs/cars not one or two pulls. Also they were tested on the same dyno in the same month.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Paul, I didn't mean to imply that you said "all", but I also notice that you did NOT say "some". You DID mention having done some testing and I was/am curious as to the extent and your findings. IS there anything out there that you are willing to say looks better or worse?
<strong>Dave,
Where did I say ALL chips are BS? I don't remember that. This was also w/multiple runs/cars not one or two pulls. Also they were tested on the same dyno in the same month.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Paul, I didn't mean to imply that you said "all", but I also notice that you did NOT say "some". You DID mention having done some testing and I was/am curious as to the extent and your findings. IS there anything out there that you are willing to say looks better or worse?
08-29-2002, 12:58 AM
#68
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Dave,
Fair enough! I was extremely disappointed with the results from dyno testing the chip that I bought from FR Wilk. To make matters worse after contacting him to try to get him to make another chip maybe more geared towards race gas, which he implied he would. He became what I thought was very unprofessional...
I would still like to buy another chip from someone else maybe geared towards race gas if they guarantee a gain of say 5WHP or more. I hope they would have office or shop that I could go to in person if their is a problem! The internet is pretty anonymous you really don't know who you are dealing with, some guys don't even use their real names combine that with-out a physical address....
I hope this is clear enough!
This is my personal experience if someone has different experience. GOOD!! But this was mine.
Paul
Fair enough! I was extremely disappointed with the results from dyno testing the chip that I bought from FR Wilk. To make matters worse after contacting him to try to get him to make another chip maybe more geared towards race gas, which he implied he would. He became what I thought was very unprofessional...
I would still like to buy another chip from someone else maybe geared towards race gas if they guarantee a gain of say 5WHP or more. I hope they would have office or shop that I could go to in person if their is a problem! The internet is pretty anonymous you really don't know who you are dealing with, some guys don't even use their real names combine that with-out a physical address....
I hope this is clear enough!
This is my personal experience if someone has different experience. GOOD!! But this was mine.
Paul
08-29-2002, 01:20 AM
#69
Race Car
Thanks Paul, sounds like you need something custom burned for your mods. I guess "stand-alone" isn't allowed. I haven't looked into it myself yet but I've heard that Autothority will tweek a chip based on your dyno results, for a price of course and I don't know to what extent they will stand behind it.
08-29-2002, 01:42 AM
#70
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Paul, there was no reason to reply like you did. All I asked for was the brand of your chip...for the third time(on a couple threads)and have only gotten nasty replies in return. I just now found out that you had one from your latest post.
The differences I wanted to investigate were things like ignition timing advance, fuel tables, and air/fuel ratios. I just wanted to see what type of tweaking all the other 944 chips were utilizing. I have yet to make any negative remarks towards you. What a poor attitude.
The differences I wanted to investigate were things like ignition timing advance, fuel tables, and air/fuel ratios. I just wanted to see what type of tweaking all the other 944 chips were utilizing. I have yet to make any negative remarks towards you. What a poor attitude.
08-29-2002, 02:11 AM
#71
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Paul Bloomberg:
<strong>So no race chip! You would think that with the series gaining popularity across the country just some advance for the race gas would net a gain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Paul, how about contacting some of the east coast 944 Cup folks and try to find someone close to Autothority work with them to come up with a chip with maps optimized for race gas. Even better would be one with dual maps. I'd like a race gas program and a premium pump gas program.
<strong>So no race chip! You would think that with the series gaining popularity across the country just some advance for the race gas would net a gain.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Paul, how about contacting some of the east coast 944 Cup folks and try to find someone close to Autothority work with them to come up with a chip with maps optimized for race gas. Even better would be one with dual maps. I'd like a race gas program and a premium pump gas program.
08-29-2002, 02:22 AM
#72
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fomulaone10,
All I asked was what are your qualifications?
To determine what all the parameters do in conjunction with each other I would think you must be a tuner or somebody that really knows how the electronics affect the motor.
Most of the real tuners use their real names, cause they are probably proud of their work and stand behind it. I guess that is "mean spirited".
I will no longer waste the space debating on some lame chip , if you want to contact me PM, please feel free, but please use your real name.
Paul
All I asked was what are your qualifications?
To determine what all the parameters do in conjunction with each other I would think you must be a tuner or somebody that really knows how the electronics affect the motor.
Most of the real tuners use their real names, cause they are probably proud of their work and stand behind it. I guess that is "mean spirited".
I will no longer waste the space debating on some lame chip , if you want to contact me PM, please feel free, but please use your real name.
Paul
08-29-2002, 02:22 AM
#73
Three Wheelin'
Paul,
I don't need a pill <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
In any case, I appreciate your input on this. Until now, you are the only person I have seen state that they were not satisfied with their product from Mr. Wilk. This is what I wanted to hear. If you specifically tested his chip (which you did) and did not manage any sort of gain, then I completely understand your stance. Thank you for not taking my questions/concerns with your stance personally. I did not know (initially) that you had any experience with Mr. Wilk's products.
That having been said, I have forwarded this information on to Mr. Wilk and am awaiting his response. I doubt that Mr. Wilk is making up his positive feedback (as I have witnessed it from regular users on the e-mail lists here...) but I do agree that it is possible for someone to do this.
I'll wait for Mr. Wilk's response; and make my chip decision purchased based upon any insight he can provide. I'll let you know what happens.
Micah
I don't need a pill <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
In any case, I appreciate your input on this. Until now, you are the only person I have seen state that they were not satisfied with their product from Mr. Wilk. This is what I wanted to hear. If you specifically tested his chip (which you did) and did not manage any sort of gain, then I completely understand your stance. Thank you for not taking my questions/concerns with your stance personally. I did not know (initially) that you had any experience with Mr. Wilk's products.
That having been said, I have forwarded this information on to Mr. Wilk and am awaiting his response. I doubt that Mr. Wilk is making up his positive feedback (as I have witnessed it from regular users on the e-mail lists here...) but I do agree that it is possible for someone to do this.
I'll wait for Mr. Wilk's response; and make my chip decision purchased based upon any insight he can provide. I'll let you know what happens.
Micah
08-29-2002, 12:29 PM
#74
Race Director
IMHO Paul and M758 (what's your real name?) have the right idea. Dyno tests.
Butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate. Some things feel better, but make no more power. Then others produce power over the full range of rpm and don't really feel like they are making power as a result, but indeed make worthwhile power.
That said, I don't know if I will be testing individual components inititally. I know what my race car will need and unfortunately have to guess what is worthwhile. I've heard the Stahl header is a significant improvement over the MSDS, but when I ask for documentation, I get silence. At double the price, I'll test it later, if ever.
I will tune my car on the dyno. This is really under rated. I went to an (Nissan) SE-R club dyno day a couple of years ago that went on for 8 hours. I watched a friend never leave the dyno room and he never failed to get more power out of a car, mostly by adjusting the timing. He even got 7 hp out of an NA car just by playing with the timing. Oh, and he played with a Honduh and a Mustang and got more power out of them too, so it wasn't just a Nissan thing.
Butt dynos are notoriously inaccurate. Some things feel better, but make no more power. Then others produce power over the full range of rpm and don't really feel like they are making power as a result, but indeed make worthwhile power.
That said, I don't know if I will be testing individual components inititally. I know what my race car will need and unfortunately have to guess what is worthwhile. I've heard the Stahl header is a significant improvement over the MSDS, but when I ask for documentation, I get silence. At double the price, I'll test it later, if ever.
I will tune my car on the dyno. This is really under rated. I went to an (Nissan) SE-R club dyno day a couple of years ago that went on for 8 hours. I watched a friend never leave the dyno room and he never failed to get more power out of a car, mostly by adjusting the timing. He even got 7 hp out of an NA car just by playing with the timing. Oh, and he played with a Honduh and a Mustang and got more power out of them too, so it wasn't just a Nissan thing.
08-29-2002, 03:03 PM
#75
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Micah, I would also be interested in what FR Wilk has to say.
BTW, Paul I there is a good chance I will take my car to dyno eventually. After some more mods though. I don't see the point of paying near the price of a chip just to see precisely(down to each tenth of a horsepower) what it did to the car. Maybe with some more mods it would make sense to spend the money - but then I guess I couldn't really isolate the chip gains. BTW I myself am not an "engine tuner" per say. I have knowledge some limited knowledge about engine tuning but I don't have regular access to a dyno and programming equipment for a dme. However, I have consulted an engine and fuel design engineer on this matter (used to actually be involved with DME design). He has driven the car before and after and seen what type of tweaks the chip makes from FR Wilks website. He actually estimated a slightly higher HP increase than I have posted here. I gave a more conservative estimate. If and when I get my car on the dyno I will post my results.
BTW, Paul I there is a good chance I will take my car to dyno eventually. After some more mods though. I don't see the point of paying near the price of a chip just to see precisely(down to each tenth of a horsepower) what it did to the car. Maybe with some more mods it would make sense to spend the money - but then I guess I couldn't really isolate the chip gains. BTW I myself am not an "engine tuner" per say. I have knowledge some limited knowledge about engine tuning but I don't have regular access to a dyno and programming equipment for a dme. However, I have consulted an engine and fuel design engineer on this matter (used to actually be involved with DME design). He has driven the car before and after and seen what type of tweaks the chip makes from FR Wilks website. He actually estimated a slightly higher HP increase than I have posted here. I gave a more conservative estimate. If and when I get my car on the dyno I will post my results.