Paul Bloomberg

Buy the chip! You will be amazed at the performance difference. I just didn't want you guys to have one : )I thought, I was in my 404WHP turbo for a minute. WHOOSH.......
Seriously, I am just trying to give some FACTS, not opinions.
BTW,
Ask the chip maker for a money back guarantee if it doesn't meet your expectations also dyno sheets on your model of year/car! See who can provide those two items.
Paul

FormulaOne10

Paul I was curious as to what chip you tried on your car and what were some of the other chips used on the dyno day. Maybe I can figure out any differences between them.

MicahJones,

I was very satisfied with the FR Wilk chip. I would recommend getting the dual chip install option so you will have a better shot at passing emissions. However, you may pass with that PowerProm chip - I just don't know for sure. If you are not very happy with the chip I will be very surprised. Definetely the best bang for my buck engine mod. Let me know if you have any other questions.

By the way - the install is not terribly easy. If you are good with solder I'm sure you can get it done. Besides I seem to remember another user who tried to do thinking with his poor soldering that it wouldn't run; it ended up working fine.

Paul Bloomberg

Formulaone10,
What are your qualifications regarding designing chips? How would you compare the differences? Please share!!!
Micah,
Like I said before I would ask for dyno sheets and a money back guarantee! Nothing wrong with that if they can produce the numbers.
I read in FR Wilks instructions that if the chip wasn't installed correctly in the CPU the car simply wouldn't start! That said, I guess his chips could be as a good as his instructions? What does poor soldering skills have to do with it? Either it works or it don't. Unless the instructions are BS kinda like what some people believe the chip is!
Re: dual switch for the CPU, overly rich....you'll need it!
WANNA PLAY????
Paul

John Anderson

I don't know what JM does to get his NA motors to make power. He's been around for a while and I'm sure he has his ways. On the otherhand, I don't feel its a secret at all. We open the block, make it lighter, bigger, and compress the air a tad. Its hot rod basics.

I do know that while working for another tuner, we dropped totaly rebuiilt engine into a race car (NA), it had a slightly higher compression...not much worth mentioning really, MAF kit, big cam, adjustable cam gear, nology hot wire set, lightened flywheel I think it had a big bore throttle body, no balance shafts, no power steering, stiff lifter springs, worked head etc etc, and I'm not sure but I recall it made around 150-160 at the wheels on the average.

THats a lot of bolt on's to get some power! I have a hard time believing power in the NA motor, I mean real, noticeable power can come any other way than by blowing it, or simply building the engine from the ground up.

Take Care

Geo

[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
<strong>I do know that while working for another tuner, we dropped totaly rebuiilt engine into a race car (NA), it had a slightly higher compression...not much worth mentioning really, MAF kit, big cam, adjustable cam gear, nology hot wire set, lightened flywheel I think it had a big bore throttle body, no balance shafts, no power steering, stiff lifter springs, worked head etc etc, and I'm not sure but I recall it made around 150-160 at the wheels on the average.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

All those things except the wires are illegal in IT.

We can bump the CR 0.5 (only by milling the head), balance, port match 1" in, valve job within factory specs, blend the valve seat into the runners, change all pulleys but main (must remain stock), remove emissions stuff and AC, intake before the AFM is free, ECU internals are free, clutch disc and PP are free. That's pretty much it.

BTW, did ANY 944 sold in the states ever come w/o AC?

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>BTW, did ANY 944 sold in the states ever come w/o AC?</strong><hr></blockquote>

83

muso58

Something I'm thinking about doing for the hell ofd it is porting my inlet manifold. In other words allowing a smoother flow of fuel by making sure the ports between manifold and head match exactly.This can also be done on exhaust side, use a dremel to remove spare metal from edges,use marks on old gasket as template, will probably only remove metal from manifold, because of obvious problems getting metal filings into inlet ports.

Micah

FormulaOne,

I'm not overly concerned about emissions as I am in Indiana ("We don't care and it shows" - state motto.) I'm just making sure I keep the stock chip (am running it now actually) in case I ever have to sell 'er.

Paul,

You're probably right - I could ask for Dyno's, etc. I wouldn't buy from a place that didn't have an "if you're not satisfied" money-back guarantee, etc. etc - so that's not a problem at all.
Just a quick word of advice though... don't insult someone's product before you (or one of your associates) has any kind of experience with it. I have never owned an FR Wilk Chip, but I do know that he has gained quite a reputation for doing quality work. On the other side of the coin, I've never heard of you doing anything (aside from complaining about other makers products on your Dyno tests.)
Also, I would like anyone who believes Mr. Wilk's chip to be "BS" to please step forward and express this so that Paul's assumptions can be validated. Also, please step forward if you have been satisfied... so that Paul's assumptions can be negated.

Hopefully, Mr. Wilk will stop by and explain some of this as well... I know he occasionally visits these boards.

Micah

M758

[quote]Originally posted by MicahJones:
<strong>On the other side of the coin, I've never heard of you doing anything (aside from complaining about other makers products on your Dyno tests.)
Micah</strong><hr></blockquote>

Micah,
I actually VALUE Paul's Input. He is one of the few guys in this board who as ACTUALLY DYNOED his car an knows what the mods did or did NOT do!

I see far too many of you guys spend money on a mod and then talk about how great it "feels" with no proof to back it up other than the hole in your wallet!

Honestly the Dyno does not LIE!
I have not put a chip in or done engine mods on either of my cars. I have always been concerned about power and the "claims" from people. This is partially because I do not want to spend my hard earned $$ on stuff that does not work. Most guys do not have time or resouces to dyno check their upgrades. I am one of them and therefore I need to rely on those who have to make informed decisions.

Clearly Paul has spend considerable time and money to verify his 132 hp and chip situation. I value this information and I think more of you should as well.

The seat of the pants aint worth squat.
DYNO=PROOF

Thank You PAUL!

Micah

If you value Paul's input, that's fantastic... Did Paul Dyno Mr. Wilk's chip? No? Then why is he commenting/making assumptions concerning it?

My point is, there are people out there who value FR Wilk's input as well... and it's not Paul's place to state that anything by Mr. Wilk is "BS" when he lacks a foundation for his arguments. There are plenty of users here who swear by Mr. Wilk's products.. you are the first person I have heard state anything about Mr. Bloomberg.

I should clarify that I did not mean any personal attack on Mr. Bloomberg; I did however have concerns over his comments concerning an individual that (to my knowledge) he has had no experience with. Note that I did not request anyone come forward and verify is Mr. Bloomberg is a viable reference (because of his dyno experience, I'm sure he is...) I asked for people to come forward to comment on Mr. Wilk's chip. These individuals (unlike Mr. Bloomberg) would have personal experience with Mr. Wilk's product, and would be in a much better position to comment.

Micah

ram_one

M758,
If someone spends money on an upgrade and the result is the car 'feels' like it rides better or generates more power, then that is a beneficial investment for that person. If they choose to share that opinion on this board then it should be appreciated for what it is, one person's opinion. Many decisions are made based on peoples' opinions posted on this board. That's what makes it invaluable.
If every opinion had to be backed up by empirical data, then there would only need to be one posting for any item because the empirical data would always be the same.
Just because something has great numbers doesn't mean everyone will enjoy it or appreciate it as much as the next guy.
With this list I would rather hear 10 opinions from real usage on a mod than one post with a dyno or some other data on it.
I'm one who has spent a good amount of money on mods and have not dynoed my car since I've had it. I really don't feel a need to. I know my car rides better or feels stronger and that is all that matters to me.

Manning

M758 wrote:

[quote] Now if that 185 is at the flywheel then.
assume 20 hp loss through drivetrain (consistent with 143 vs 123 stock flywheel rating vs stock rear wheel dyno).
Then his engines put out 165 at the rear wheels. <hr></blockquote>

Loss through the drivetrain is more on the order of 20%, not 20HP. If that is the case then we are looking at a loss of 37HP which brings it down to 148HP at the wheels.

Also, and correct me if I am wrong, brake horsepower (BHP) is at the crank, not at the wheels

Dave

Rick DeMan of DeMan Motorsport, the location of our recent "NE Dyno Day" told me that in his experience 22-23% driveline loss is typical for a 944. Sounds high to me but "dyno=proof"... right?

Paul Bloomberg said,
[quote] the ones that I have already seen on a dyno don't make crap! <hr></blockquote>
What chips have you dynoed? While I believe that there are some poor chips on the market, I also think there are a few that do just (or at least "almost") what they claim. To make the statement that chips are BS based on a couple dyno runs, is no better than stating that a chip will make an improvement based on NO dyno runs.
You will see from my signature that I have the same chip that GRM used, (maybe not exactly the same, I can't find that rev-limit anywhere ) I didn't dyno it before I installed it, so I can't give proof of anything. When I installed it 3 years ago, it FELT like I gave up some low end for a bit of high end, but since I've never had my a$$ calibrated I would not expect anyone to consider my statement to be fact.
Can we move on to throttle cams now, you know...that thing that works like putting your foot down faster....

OriginalSterm

Manning-
bhp is at the crank, if someone puts their CAR on a dyno, that is wheel horsepower. I have seen usually around 20% loss from the crank to the wheels.

Paul Bloomberg

Dave,
Where did I say ALL chips are BS? I don't remember that. This was also w/multiple runs/cars not one or two pulls. Also they were tested on the same dyno in the same month.
Micah,
I HAVE dyno'd the chip in question. I have seen other charts too! It actually lost power due to the fact that is was too rich. Maybe it was rich due to the improved VE of the bolt ons of my car. You know the BIG cone filter, exhaust,.... You would think that a knowledgeable chip maker would know what applications would work with his chip. A ethical business person wouldn't sell somebody something that they knew wouldn't work as implied, right? Cause they knew the app.
I am not a "GURU" or a WANNA BE TUNER. How many posts does it take to be a GURU???
I am a end user that verifies what I spend my money on. I WOULD NOT post a response to anything like hp gains,ect.. on this list unless it was a measureable fact. That I have personally seen!
BTW Micah,
How do you know that a person that raves about some product, isn't the same person that sells it, but just using a different identity???? I mean 5 identities you could have a heck of a conversation with yourself. All RANTING about how great your products are.
I stand by what I said, I would get dyno sheets and a money back guarantee!
I have all e-mail correspondance w/ the chip burner in question. As far as a reputation? "SWEET GUY real ethical!" Buy the two chip package w/pcb!
Take a sugar pill It will turn you into Superman : )
GOOD LUCK,
Paul