*eurospeed951*

What would I need to have done and what new parts would I need to convert my 88 951 to a 2.8 or 3.oL?

Riz

I'm considering this also for my 89 951. Of course you get more torque, does the engine vibrate a lot more? Which is better- the 2.8 or 3.0L Where do you get the parts? What kind of HP/Torque can you get without going nuts? I still want it streetable.

Redeye

I have also been considering something along these lines. So far, the only place that I can find on the net is Powerhaus. They don't give any prices online, but they do tell you everything that their kits include. Hey, maby Speed Force Racing will come out with a kit?

Robby

I've been researching this for a long-*** time now for when I rebuild my engine in the near future. So far, I have been sent many e-mails regarding them (2.8L's inparticular) and they have not been very reassuring- can you say over-rated? It's not supposed to be the best bang for the buck upgrade. From what I understand, the 2.8L really doesn't add much power- what it does do is give you more low end TQ, which is, of course, what these car's need most anyway...

Garrity Repta is who I'm planning to use for my rebuild, although I haven't decided how far I'm going to go- maybe just 2.5L w/a Jon Milledge turbo kit (includes injectors, etc)- it should put out ~360HP- not as much as most people claim (and in some cases for less $$$), but I really don't care what all of the fancy dynos say- it seems that when many of these 400+HP 951's line up against Jon Milledge 350HP ones, they always end up seeing tail lights At any rate, Garrity and Jon (even Scott Gomes- another highly respected engine builder who does lots of 2.9L's) all say that the engine management becomes a limiting factor when you get into the 400HP range- they use systems, like Motec, Tec II, Halodex(?), Electromotive, etc....

As for prices, Garrity is the most affordable, and definately knows what he is doing. I met him a little over a year ago, and found him not only to be very knowledgeable, but also very willing to help out, and most importantly, honest! This isn't to say anything negative about the other two I've mentioned- I've spoken w/both of them, and they both were very helpful- it's just that their prices were a little out of my league for a performance engine rebuild...

BTW, the e-mails about the 2.8L's of lesser value regarded many of the big name advertisers in the magazines. I won't name them here, b/c I don't know from personal experience, but when someone tells me that they spent $20k for a 2.8L that could only outrun a chipped 951 by about a car length at the 1/4, then I tend to be a little leary

Eurospeed- after all of my rambling here, I realized that I don't have much of an answer for your original question. what I do know is, that to do a 3.0L, you have to use the 8V head and bore it out in addition to the 968 crank- unless you have some BIG BUCKS to start messing w/a 968 or S2 16V engine. Anyway, the piston sizes etc, need to be changed when doing a 3.0L, and someone like Garrity would be the place I would start if
I were wanting to get specifics. He has a website- Performance Auto Works of St. louis... another guy to call might be Scott Gomes- he's been mentioned on the list a few times- his shop is called Underpressure Performance...

Good luck, and let me know what you do- I've e-mailed you before- you're only about an hour or so down the road...

Danno

I'm surprised they said the 400hp range. It's hard enough in the 300rwhp+ range to tune the stock computers with add-on/piggy-back gadgets!

Anyway, I think Eurospeed might be approaching it backwards. Rather than picking specific parts and specs to begin with, he should define a goal first. What kind of power levels do you want? What kind of use will you be subjecting this engine to? Then pose these questions to Garrity and Gomes and they'll give you the recommended path.

I haven't been too particularly impressed with Powerhaus's conversions. Ran against one of his 968 Turbo cars at Laguna a couple of months ago. For $25k, you can definitely get more than 350-375rwhp from any of the other guys.

Redeye

WOW!! I didn't realize that powerhaus's numbers were so low on the HP figure for that much money! I had forgotten about Garrity and Jon Milledge (Shows how close I am to actually doing the conversion).
Hey Danno (good name by the way ),
Was that a PCA race at Laguna or something else? I'm just starting to get back into racing and would like to race my 951 when it finally gets built. Where did you start out at? (Sorry for going off topic.)
Thanks,
Dan

Robby

Actually Danno, I was referring to flytwheel HP- still might be little high, but I was just tossing out a rough estimate. Jon Milledge usually lists his power at the crank b/c of his engine dyno (he also say's 951's only lose about 10%) and it's easy to get confused sometimes talking to different people and all. I'm not sure how much we really lose, but I'd guess that most of us lose closer to the 15% range in the normal state of tune- we've been over this in a recent thread though.

BTW, another good person to talk with about these engines is Chris Cervelli (Technodyne). He's fairly reasonable and like's to do 2.8L's- he's very opposed to 3.0L's though. Anyway, Powerhaus has a very inconsistent rep for the performance of their 2.8L engines- about the only thing I've seen to be consistent about them are their high prices

*eurospeed951*

Thank you all for the info. The reason I asked is that I am rebuilding my engin as we speak . My number one chamber has some small grooves and a rig on it, so I know that the block will need some work. I had all ready planned to have Garitty do my head work and to get all of my parts from him. I flew home this weekend to clean parts and to call and talk to Garitty about the parts I need and the work I want done. I have called him over and over, emailed him and posted for him here. I have yet to get in contact with him . He has always returned my emails right away, so I'm sure he must have a lot of work to do. the reason for the 2.8/3.0 post is that since I now know that I will need my block worked on, I was wondering if it would be worth it to move up to the 2.8/3.0. I also needed to talk to him to see what my options were with my block. that one wall needs to be repaied, but I know ther is some sort of coating on our cars. IF ANYONE CAN PUT ME IN TOUCH WITH HIM OR OFFER ANY OTHER ADVICE I WOULD GREATLY APRICIATE IT!
Thank You
Chris

Tabor

Just so everyone knows, his web site is garrity.986.org. I have never talked to him on the phone, but he returned the 1 e-mail I sent him.

John Anderson

Speed Force Racing Has built a few of these 2.8 3.0 liter cars. Infact we have two that can be put on the dyno at any time if someone wants to come down and make a day of it. I'm calling on Danno to schedual this even.

My 2.82 liter all bore 951 put 400+ and 515lbs at the wheels. We have another var that we just upgraded, have not dynoed yet, but when it was our 2.9 liter it put 400+ and 460lbs at the tires, both of these cars ran with the boost setting at 18psi.

Our sheets are up for all to see on our website.

The cost you say? We can deliver to you in a crate (shipping cost not included in the following quote) a 2.8 liter all bore (2.82 exactly) short block, with custom JE pistons (not the off the shelf JE's), custom Pauter rods, lightened knife edged crank (16lbs off the crank) crossdrilled and plugged, with a 8 lbs lightened and balanced flywheel for 5100.00 total thats assembled.

Head work is an additional 800.00 for a ported polished O ringed head with fresh guides and seals.

Put our level two turbo on this beast for 1099.00.

Add the MAF kit for 1200.00 (price good with short block order only)

Injectors run about 600.00

SFR BOOST2 controller add 99.00


7799.00 total for the package that has been proven over and over to make the HP we advertise!

So yes, SFR does do this :-)

*eurospeed951*

You find me a job, I'll buy your kit!!!

No really, I need a job

*eurospeed951*

So I guess no one knows what my options are for my block

John Anderson

Eurospeed,

You can have the block bored or you can stroke the block, like above in my post. I tried to lay out a general plan. Its really better to cover the options over the phone...it would take 100 emails to cover a ten minute conversation going over all the options.

David Floyd

It can be bored,but not in the standard Ford and Chevy way.

Just make sure when it is done the shop is familiar with the correct process.

Hope this helps

David Floyd

Ok,

John beat me to the answer.

That SFR short block looks tempting, since I knocked a hole in my oil pan down the front straight at Road Atlanta.

I am still waiting on a damage report from the shop in Atlanta that I left my car with.