In case you're still thinking about street racing....
03-11-2003 | 02:48 PM
#31
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 1
From: North NJ, USA
Hmm, my first car was a beat up old '73 VW fastback. NOTHING was slower than that beast!
Even so, I managed to get that thing up to 90mph on the highway. Foolish I was back then.
First time drivers shouldn't drive sports cars. (My opinion). Learning how to drive using a decent late model sedan or a beater is better for many reasons: 1. Less speed, 2. Less $$ to fix, 3. Less likelyhood of destroying a collectable.
Again, only my opinion.
-Z.
Even so, I managed to get that thing up to 90mph on the highway. Foolish I was back then.
First time drivers shouldn't drive sports cars. (My opinion). Learning how to drive using a decent late model sedan or a beater is better for many reasons: 1. Less speed, 2. Less $$ to fix, 3. Less likelyhood of destroying a collectable.
Again, only my opinion.
-Z.
03-11-2003 | 02:50 PM
#32
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,941
Likes: 1
From: Kalifornyuh
I have a freind who owns a shop here in town. Any work I can not do, he does (mostly tire mounts and alignment). He bought his 17 year old son a new RSX-S and it somewhat worries me that such a young guy has 200HP and lots of icy, twisty roads here.
What can I say, he trusts him. He remembers having a "hot" car when he was little and he's made his living off cars all his life since.
When I've talked to the son, he says "I've never been beat. . ." so, yes, he races but he hasn't stacked it yet so who am I to say. It does scare me though after regularly driving by accidents on our 2 lane Hwy here where someone came over the line and head on with opposing traffic.
Dunno, life is short, could be shorter than I anticipate. I could be the safest Porsche enthusiast and drive the speed limit, full roll cage, ect. and someone talking on their cell could just "move over" on me and it's good night. It's sad when people die in collisions, but there are just more and more people driving and less attention paid while doing it. I see street racing as a exagerated target for the real dangers that face us.
What can I say, he trusts him. He remembers having a "hot" car when he was little and he's made his living off cars all his life since.
When I've talked to the son, he says "I've never been beat. . ." so, yes, he races but he hasn't stacked it yet so who am I to say. It does scare me though after regularly driving by accidents on our 2 lane Hwy here where someone came over the line and head on with opposing traffic.
Dunno, life is short, could be shorter than I anticipate. I could be the safest Porsche enthusiast and drive the speed limit, full roll cage, ect. and someone talking on their cell could just "move over" on me and it's good night. It's sad when people die in collisions, but there are just more and more people driving and less attention paid while doing it. I see street racing as a exagerated target for the real dangers that face us.
03-11-2003 | 03:10 PM
#33
Racer
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
From: Guttenberg, NJ
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> First of all, Bert's was not street racing, I know it sounds like a glorious way to go, but it is not. I say this not from what I would like to believe but from a witness who observe the whole accident and even helped to pull Bert out of the wreck. He has stated that Bert's car was northbound in the right lane of a 4 way highway to our house. One that Bert has drove home numerous of times. He observed that his car had suddenly pulled to the left and was immediatley out of control. There was not one car in front or behind him. It was a solo accident with no cars in the vicinity. He found it strange on how the car became out of control. I know that he may have been exceeding the 55 mph speed limit, but cannot explain why the sudden pull to the left and then the wheels locking up into a sideways slide back to the right and into a pole. I am not sure but am suspect maybe a maybe a mechanical problem, as the front left wheel roter was broke in half and sticking out. the pole hit the drivers door, not the wheel. the tow truck driver said he never seen a rotor broken in that way. So we will try and check to see what had happen. btw, the witness was a Naval Police Officer. I am just trying to find out what happen. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">This is a terrible terrible incident, my prayers go out to his family and friends.
Why does everyone on this forum seem to think this kid was street racing? Accoring to the post from his father Bert was alone on the road. Last time I checked street racing involved 2 or more cars, no? From reading RSXforums it seems as though he lost control of his RSX after lifting off the lip of a bridge. The back end probably came out a little and swung the car around. Hitting the brakes while airborn is the worst idea. There is nothing you can do. I still don't understand why the front rotor cracked, i'd like to see pics of the car. The father belives that mechanical failure may be the cause. Nodody will know for sure. In the end I think it is fair to blame aggressive driving for this fatality.
I know i'm definetely going to watch myself around public roads more often after reading all this. It's great to see how everyone comes together from all different message boards to support each other. In the end we all unite, whether we drive Pcars, Hondas, Acuras....
This is one of the major reason I try to promote AutoX. I try to get my friends and even ricers involved for one purpose: to get them off the street. The best place to test the limits of your car is on a closed track. I know that I myself am guilty of aggressive driving on public streets, one of the side reasons I can't wait for the spring season to start up.
As the matter of fact I almost started an Autocross club at Rutgers University. Perhaps I did this subconciously to get other kids off the street and onto a closed course. In the end I didn't follow through because of a lack of time and loads of red tape i'd have to work through. But I hope that someday my dream will become someone else's reality. Autocross not only provideds a route to take out driving aggressions, but it gives you an opporunity to learn about the limits of your car. You'll be surprised how many people drive RWD sports cars yet don't know what oversteer means.
I've seen specials about legal street racing events that are hosted by town police. I'd like to see more of this in the future. If your town can manage to host these events, think about how many lives could be saved. Kids will be kids, you can't change their habbits. SOME people believe that legalizing drugs will help our society. I'm not one of those followers but apply that to street racing for one second. Say once a week your town troopers organize an event somewhere around town. Granted it isn't a drag strip, but it was amazing watching cops drag race kids on a closed road. There are numerous insurance and safety concerns that need to be addressed, but I believe there is a solution.
Over the past few years i've seen street racing and import tuners blow up. It's just going to get worse unless we do something about it. Kids are dumb, I should know because i'm still somewhat of a kid(23 today). My first car was a 1990 Buick Lesabre which I had till I was 20. Kids everywhere are running out and purchasing bolt on parts for their cars. Look at the latest slew of high horsepower monsters to hit the market. Do we really need soccer moms and senior citizens driving around with 400+hp under the hood? We're in the middle of a horsepower war, everyone wants more power, bigger wheels, and faster cars.
Last summer I witnessed something related to this. At a local town hang out this kid borrowed his dad's SL500. Well a little innocent naive girl conviced him to let her take it for a spin around the parking lot. Needless to say nobody how many 17 year old girls do you know of that know how to handle a 400hp rwd sports car? Not many... We all watched as she tore out of the parking lot at the limits of traction. This is a rare occurance but proves my point.
Check this out:
Every summer kids from my town gather to hang out late at night. For the first time I witnessed street racing in my town. There is a local mini-mall with a ~1/8 mile strech of road directly in front of the supermarket. They would lineup side by side and just go for it. Adrial told me about it before but I simply couldn't believe it till I saw it for myself. Eventually the cops would come and break it up, throw out a few tickets here and there.
I know someone is going to say..."tell them to take it to the drag strip." That's a good suggestion, but there are no dragstripes in my area. Secondly how many people would take their 15-17 second car to the strip? Kids street race for entertainment purposes, to see whose car is faster.
As a teenager I would have loved to enroll in a course by Skip Barber or any of those peformance schools. But I sure didn't have $2k laying around. Several years later I discovered Autocross. Problem solved.
I've been thinking a lot about this issue lately, sorry for my long post. Just a few cents from me. See you guys at AutoX and DE this year. --Yarin
Why does everyone on this forum seem to think this kid was street racing? Accoring to the post from his father Bert was alone on the road. Last time I checked street racing involved 2 or more cars, no? From reading RSXforums it seems as though he lost control of his RSX after lifting off the lip of a bridge. The back end probably came out a little and swung the car around. Hitting the brakes while airborn is the worst idea. There is nothing you can do. I still don't understand why the front rotor cracked, i'd like to see pics of the car. The father belives that mechanical failure may be the cause. Nodody will know for sure. In the end I think it is fair to blame aggressive driving for this fatality.
I know i'm definetely going to watch myself around public roads more often after reading all this. It's great to see how everyone comes together from all different message boards to support each other. In the end we all unite, whether we drive Pcars, Hondas, Acuras....
This is one of the major reason I try to promote AutoX. I try to get my friends and even ricers involved for one purpose: to get them off the street. The best place to test the limits of your car is on a closed track. I know that I myself am guilty of aggressive driving on public streets, one of the side reasons I can't wait for the spring season to start up.
As the matter of fact I almost started an Autocross club at Rutgers University. Perhaps I did this subconciously to get other kids off the street and onto a closed course. In the end I didn't follow through because of a lack of time and loads of red tape i'd have to work through. But I hope that someday my dream will become someone else's reality. Autocross not only provideds a route to take out driving aggressions, but it gives you an opporunity to learn about the limits of your car. You'll be surprised how many people drive RWD sports cars yet don't know what oversteer means.
I've seen specials about legal street racing events that are hosted by town police. I'd like to see more of this in the future. If your town can manage to host these events, think about how many lives could be saved. Kids will be kids, you can't change their habbits. SOME people believe that legalizing drugs will help our society. I'm not one of those followers but apply that to street racing for one second. Say once a week your town troopers organize an event somewhere around town. Granted it isn't a drag strip, but it was amazing watching cops drag race kids on a closed road. There are numerous insurance and safety concerns that need to be addressed, but I believe there is a solution.
Over the past few years i've seen street racing and import tuners blow up. It's just going to get worse unless we do something about it. Kids are dumb, I should know because i'm still somewhat of a kid(23 today). My first car was a 1990 Buick Lesabre which I had till I was 20. Kids everywhere are running out and purchasing bolt on parts for their cars. Look at the latest slew of high horsepower monsters to hit the market. Do we really need soccer moms and senior citizens driving around with 400+hp under the hood? We're in the middle of a horsepower war, everyone wants more power, bigger wheels, and faster cars.
Last summer I witnessed something related to this. At a local town hang out this kid borrowed his dad's SL500. Well a little innocent naive girl conviced him to let her take it for a spin around the parking lot. Needless to say nobody how many 17 year old girls do you know of that know how to handle a 400hp rwd sports car? Not many... We all watched as she tore out of the parking lot at the limits of traction. This is a rare occurance but proves my point.
Check this out:
Every summer kids from my town gather to hang out late at night. For the first time I witnessed street racing in my town. There is a local mini-mall with a ~1/8 mile strech of road directly in front of the supermarket. They would lineup side by side and just go for it. Adrial told me about it before but I simply couldn't believe it till I saw it for myself. Eventually the cops would come and break it up, throw out a few tickets here and there.
I know someone is going to say..."tell them to take it to the drag strip." That's a good suggestion, but there are no dragstripes in my area. Secondly how many people would take their 15-17 second car to the strip? Kids street race for entertainment purposes, to see whose car is faster.
As a teenager I would have loved to enroll in a course by Skip Barber or any of those peformance schools. But I sure didn't have $2k laying around. Several years later I discovered Autocross. Problem solved.
I've been thinking a lot about this issue lately, sorry for my long post. Just a few cents from me. See you guys at AutoX and DE this year. --Yarin
03-11-2003 | 03:54 PM
#35
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 1
From: North NJ, USA
Hey Yarin:
I enjoyed what you wrote. College done ya good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
BTW: I didn't see you or Adrial signed up for Lime Rock, but are you going to the Pocono I DE?
Hope to see you there!
-Z.
I enjoyed what you wrote. College done ya good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
BTW: I didn't see you or Adrial signed up for Lime Rock, but are you going to the Pocono I DE?
Hope to see you there!
-Z.
03-11-2003 | 04:05 PM
#36
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,781
Likes: 0
From: Livermore, California
I don't even feel that bad for the guy who died, but more for his family and friends, the one he left behind. Call me insensitive or whatever, but hey, they have speed limits for a reason. I'm not saying I never break the speed limit, but never excessive.
I've never street raced I'm proud to say. First of all I never have a competitive car unless you'd get me on some twisted road somewhere, and second, I have a connection to the Autobahn about 5 minutes from here, and I sure as hell can't break the speed limit there.
I've never street raced I'm proud to say. First of all I never have a competitive car unless you'd get me on some twisted road somewhere, and second, I have a connection to the Autobahn about 5 minutes from here, and I sure as hell can't break the speed limit there.
03-11-2003 | 05:31 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 1
From: Northern NJ
Nice post Yarin. I echo what he said.
Zoltan, we're gonna sign up for the metro NY Pocono's event. The NNJR one is already filled.
The fabcar A-arms should be installed within 2 weeks and the car should be ready to go.
Zoltan, we're gonna sign up for the metro NY Pocono's event. The NNJR one is already filled.
The fabcar A-arms should be installed within 2 weeks and the car should be ready to go.
03-11-2003 | 05:37 PM
#39
Unaffiliated
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,286
Likes: 209
From: Cleveland
Ya know, as much as his Dad likes to say he wasn't racing, I believe he was. For a few reasons. First, as I linked before, he posted he street raced, admitted upcoming matches, and bragged of kills. Secondly, Witnesses LIE. Probably because they were involved in one way or another. Now, if someone was coming the other way, unbiased, and saw the crash, I'd believe them. Third.. a split 4 lane bridge would be a great place to race, (if such a thing existed) no side traffic, control of the lanes or traffic ahead (wait until clear) , no cops, etc.
Let me get this straight, you say he was an admitted street racer, modded his car for it, bragged on wins, and crashed at somewhat high speeds.. but it was a mechanical failure (rotor??) that broke while he was driving along legally that took his life? I'm sure there were PLENTY of broken parts in the wreckage to conveniently blame the accident on. If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you..with a small dent in it.
His poor dad is probably in denial, it is an unimaginable, yet fairly common tragedy. If Dad needed to fathom that he was a factor by giving him a too fast car, supporting the boy's need for speed, He'd be facing the guilt of helping his son to commit suicide. I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time living with that.
I too feel for the survivors. As for the kid, Darwinism at work.
Let me get this straight, you say he was an admitted street racer, modded his car for it, bragged on wins, and crashed at somewhat high speeds.. but it was a mechanical failure (rotor??) that broke while he was driving along legally that took his life? I'm sure there were PLENTY of broken parts in the wreckage to conveniently blame the accident on. If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you..with a small dent in it.
His poor dad is probably in denial, it is an unimaginable, yet fairly common tragedy. If Dad needed to fathom that he was a factor by giving him a too fast car, supporting the boy's need for speed, He'd be facing the guilt of helping his son to commit suicide. I don't know about you, but I'd have a hard time living with that.
I too feel for the survivors. As for the kid, Darwinism at work.
03-11-2003 | 05:43 PM
#41
Race Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,784
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 951Tom:
<strong>I can't f'n believe what this guy posted to that thread. I hope that kid's Dad doesn't read it. I think the moderator removed it, but here it is:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WRXRuler
Hahahaha! Glad the little moron is DEAD! Anyone who is stupid enough to put his own life and that of others in jeapardy should DIE. He got what he deserved. At least now he cant hurt anyone else. And if any of you other little P*ssy "Street racer" wannabe's do something stupid I hope you DIE too. F*cking morons all of you. Trying to make a little 4 banger car "go fast" is a joke in itself. The less of you degenerates the better in my book. You should all do the responsible community a big favor and END YOURSELF. Drive off a cliff or something.
Morons..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That person will burn in HELL.
<strong>I can't f'n believe what this guy posted to that thread. I hope that kid's Dad doesn't read it. I think the moderator removed it, but here it is:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WRXRuler
Hahahaha! Glad the little moron is DEAD! Anyone who is stupid enough to put his own life and that of others in jeapardy should DIE. He got what he deserved. At least now he cant hurt anyone else. And if any of you other little P*ssy "Street racer" wannabe's do something stupid I hope you DIE too. F*cking morons all of you. Trying to make a little 4 banger car "go fast" is a joke in itself. The less of you degenerates the better in my book. You should all do the responsible community a big favor and END YOURSELF. Drive off a cliff or something.
Morons..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That person will burn in HELL.
03-11-2003 | 06:22 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 834
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY.
I don't think the issue is fast cars, or street racing, and sadly, I don't think we'll ever see an end to young people losing their lives in this kind of tragedy. Madison Indiana has an unlimited hydroplane race every July 4th weekend, the Madison Regatta. For years now there have been high school boys from Kentucky, and Indiana who, sometime during the event, have jumped from the bridge into the Ohio river. It's sort of a bizarre tradition. Several have died, but still they jump. It's the nature of youth to be oblivious to mortality, and to tempt fate. At 19 I joined the Army, during the Vietnam war, not thinking for a minute that I could be killed. As far as I was concerned, it just wasn't a possibility. I drove too fast, wrecked my car, and drove too fast some more. To paraphrase a Dixie Chicks song young people need "room to make the big mistake". I just pray that my daughters "big mistakes" only cost money,,not life.
03-11-2003 | 07:15 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 851
Likes: 0
From: Marietta GA
As a Father who lost a son, not to racing or any other sport, but to just in a tragic accident. Any time vehicles are involved it is dangerous. whether turning around in your driveway or buzzing down the street minding your own business. All we can do for this family is to feel bad for them and the loss they have experienced. Analyzing What caused the accident is the job of the authorities. What we can do for ourselves and our loved ones is realize that anytime you get in a vehicle there is the possibility of hurting yourself or someone else. If you break the traffic rules the risk goes up. No matter how safe or how careful you think You are Racing, Driving at excessive speed can hurt or kill someone. Trying to justify street racing because you think your doing it safely, won't bring anyone back to life or save the next person who makes a mistake while they are racing or the person who puls out in front of a racer.
Sorry for the long post. but this hit claos to home and I felt I needed to say something
Sorry for the long post. but this hit claos to home and I felt I needed to say something
03-11-2003 | 07:25 PM
#44
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, New York
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Porsh-uh dammit:
<strong><a href="http://www.rasr.org" target="_blank">Racers Against Street Racing</a></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">this is a coming soon page?
<strong><a href="http://www.rasr.org" target="_blank">Racers Against Street Racing</a></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">this is a coming soon page?
03-11-2003 | 07:47 PM
#45
Banned
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
From: Waterloo, ON
I can't believe people jumped the fence and tried to grab parts off his car. I agree with Mark "It's the nature of youth to be oblivious to mortality, and to tempt fate."
Yes!
And there's no evidence that the kid was street racing.
Personally, I remember my parents wouldn't let me drive a car until I'd demonstrated enough self control that they felt comfortable letting me drive alone. Simple. Did I screw up? Yes. Parents can only do so much, and after that, it's up to the kid, and fate, or, if you will, God.
Yes!
And there's no evidence that the kid was street racing.
Personally, I remember my parents wouldn't let me drive a car until I'd demonstrated enough self control that they felt comfortable letting me drive alone. Simple. Did I screw up? Yes. Parents can only do so much, and after that, it's up to the kid, and fate, or, if you will, God.