View Poll Results: What Wheel set should I choose
17" 993 Cup II
32
51.61%
15" or 16" Fuchs
30
48.39%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll
Wheels Fuchs vs Cup II
10-18-2009, 09:49 PM
#31
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those fuchs look like 6X16 in front and 7X16 in the rear. Unfortunately fuchs won't fit on a late offset car without looking a bit goofy. I suppose with the wheels pictured if you put some aggressive negative camber on the rears they may look ok but running 6s and 7s certainly isn't ideal and if you try going with 7 and 8s they definately won't tuck in regardless of your camber settings.
10-18-2009, 10:03 PM
#32
Instructor
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1 - option
New set of rims installed yesterday. '89 S2 18X7.5 ET 50 front and 18X10 ET 65 rear. Fitment perfect. 993.362.134.06 front, 993.362.140.04 rear. S2 factory ride height.
Last edited by hamlin; 12-31-2009 at 03:57 AM.
10-18-2009, 11:26 PM
#33
Team Owner
This thread is silly, because OEM Fuchs (not custom-made 3 piece units) are simply not going to work in a desirable size on your late offset car. Yes, some will tell you that you can fit 16X7 Fuchs on there if you run with a narrow tire but frankly that's just putting looks in front of performance. You'd want 8 inch all around at least, if not 8's on the front and 9's in the back.
Unless you are planning to swap a suspension in from an 85.5 or 86 model year car, then you are stuck with late offset wheels.
For the people in this thread that are saying that there will be no performance difference for an N/A between 15/16/17 inch wheels, they are (respectfully) wrong. You CAN really notice the difference in accelleration and handling when you switch between wheels of different weights. The N/A cars lose their handling purity when they have large heavy wheels on them.
Unless you are planning to swap a suspension in from an 85.5 or 86 model year car, then you are stuck with late offset wheels.
For the people in this thread that are saying that there will be no performance difference for an N/A between 15/16/17 inch wheels, they are (respectfully) wrong. You CAN really notice the difference in accelleration and handling when you switch between wheels of different weights. The N/A cars lose their handling purity when they have large heavy wheels on them.
race cars don't go to big wheels and O rings for looks ...
10-18-2009, 11:28 PM
#34
Team Owner
anybody with a dynolicous app and different size wheels wanna put this issue to bed ? at least for the "power" part anyway ... buy the way no body said anything about fatter tires .. and contact patch side .. we were talking about rolling radius.. and I think it would be negligabel anyway as it is static friction and both would cause the car to move forwardm if one static friction was greater than the toher , on equal power one wheel would spin when you exceeded the threshold but the other would not as it's threshold is not exceeded.
,
,
10-19-2009, 03:47 AM
#35
Drifting
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Phila.
Posts: 2,290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually they changed the scrub radius from slightly positive to slightly negative for improved steering control in a front-tire blowout or for any other event where one side is on a higher friction surface than the other
10-19-2009, 07:19 AM
#36
Race Director
ou may not have understood the post ... you may want to read it agaian .. the statement was if the weights are similar .. and no one said the performance would not be different .. the performance will be far superior with bigger wheels and less sidewall .... we take the same car on the track you and your 15s with a 3 inch side wall and me with a 17s with a 1.5 inch side wall you will get eaten alive in the corners, you will have body roll due to sidewall flex .
race cars don't go to big wheels and O rings for looks ...
race cars don't go to big wheels and O rings for looks ...
I'm well aware of why racecars have larger wheels with less rubber. I guess with every post here on Renn the experienced members should have their automotive CV as an attachment so others don't think they just jumped off the turnip truck.......
I should have explained further. When this discussion comes up, 99 percent of the time it is regarding comparing factory 15/16 inch wheels to 17 inch and larger factory wheels and cheap knock-offs/aftermarket wheels. Yes of course if you drop several grand on a great set of light wheels, larger with less sidewall is better to a point.
I'm one of those people who can notice a 5-10lb difference in air pressure in the tires, so the delta to me is huge when switching back and forth from, say, a light pair fuchs to a set of 17inch Cup II's or any sort of large knock-off wheels. But there are folks on this forum that drive their cars until stuff falls off when warning signs abounded for thousands of miles prior to the incident, and don't notice subtle changes, so maybe this conversation falls on deaf ears for some.
This "myth" thing has been discussed ad nauseum, proved/disproved, etc.
It's still surprising how few people actually understand it.
"as long as you ahve the same overall rolling radius and same approximate weight 17s and 15s will make no difference to acceleration and "power" "
Find me 17" rims that weigh the same as Fuch 15" rims and I'll show you an extremely expensive wheel.
1) You're talking about 7-10lbs of difference per wheel.
2) The difference isn't in power. The difference is unsprung mass and that impacts ride/handling.
3) That's a lot more noticeable on the street when you hit a pothole than on the track where the worst disturbance you'll come across are rounded gator backs. It's also a lot more noticeable if you've got worn suspension. Increase in unsprung mass makes the suspension work a lot harder. Worn shocks and bushings will be a lot more challenged to handle that then new components.
4) If you're the type of person who would notice the difference in ride between 30psi and 40psi in your tires, you'll notice that kind of increase in unsprung mass no matter how new your shocks are.
It's still surprising how few people actually understand it.
"as long as you ahve the same overall rolling radius and same approximate weight 17s and 15s will make no difference to acceleration and "power" "
Find me 17" rims that weigh the same as Fuch 15" rims and I'll show you an extremely expensive wheel.
1) You're talking about 7-10lbs of difference per wheel.
2) The difference isn't in power. The difference is unsprung mass and that impacts ride/handling.
3) That's a lot more noticeable on the street when you hit a pothole than on the track where the worst disturbance you'll come across are rounded gator backs. It's also a lot more noticeable if you've got worn suspension. Increase in unsprung mass makes the suspension work a lot harder. Worn shocks and bushings will be a lot more challenged to handle that then new components.
4) If you're the type of person who would notice the difference in ride between 30psi and 40psi in your tires, you'll notice that kind of increase in unsprung mass no matter how new your shocks are.
10-19-2009, 07:31 AM
#37
Race Director
Ok Guys I found some pictures of a 1989 944 with the Fuchs. Tell me what you think. It appears the tire is sticking out in the rear or very close to it. I cannot tell what size they are though. I think they look good.
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-2sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-16sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-10sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-11sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-2sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-16sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-10sm.jpg
http://autolivery.com/assets/cars/KN450888-11sm.jpg
I really don't think Fuchs are an option unless you are willing to go really narrow (again not really an upgrade) or go full custom a set of 17" three-piece versions (big$$$).
Those photos show one of the little quirks of our cars - that the left side rear wheel always sticks out a little more than the right side rear wheel.
10-19-2009, 09:24 AM
#38
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Marlborough, United Kingdom
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuchs every time mate. Fuchs were optional on our cars. Cup 1's were not.
Keep it real and go for Fuchs or teledials. Why make our cars look modern when they aren't?
I hate the Cup 3's that my car came with - i would love to get hold of some Fuchs but they are too expensive.
I will have some tele-dials if anyone has got them.
Keep it real and go for Fuchs or teledials. Why make our cars look modern when they aren't?
I hate the Cup 3's that my car came with - i would love to get hold of some Fuchs but they are too expensive.
I will have some tele-dials if anyone has got them.
Last edited by Ray_Singh; 10-19-2009 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Added my reasons
10-19-2009, 12:17 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
If this is a road car and your only concern is that you want the car to look good, go with a set of 17in Cup's. The Fuchs will not fit anyway.
You WILL feel a degradation in handling and performance - this is not a myth as some have said, it is physics.
I have 15in Fuchs on my daily driver with 225/50x15 Yokos. The Fuchs are very light ( I don't know the exact weight) and the tires have an outside diameter of 24in and a weight of 22#. It feels great. Any 17in forged wheel would weight much more than my 15in Fuchs. The closest 17in Yoko tire to my overall diameter is 24.6in and that tire weights 25#. So if I went to 17in wheels I would probably be adding 3# for the wheel and 3# for the tire. That is 6# extra unsprung weight per wheel + slower acceleration due to the larger circumference. This all means that your handling and performance will suffer.
-Mike
You WILL feel a degradation in handling and performance - this is not a myth as some have said, it is physics.
I have 15in Fuchs on my daily driver with 225/50x15 Yokos. The Fuchs are very light ( I don't know the exact weight) and the tires have an outside diameter of 24in and a weight of 22#. It feels great. Any 17in forged wheel would weight much more than my 15in Fuchs. The closest 17in Yoko tire to my overall diameter is 24.6in and that tire weights 25#. So if I went to 17in wheels I would probably be adding 3# for the wheel and 3# for the tire. That is 6# extra unsprung weight per wheel + slower acceleration due to the larger circumference. This all means that your handling and performance will suffer.
-Mike
10-19-2009, 12:48 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
10-19-2009, 02:00 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
ou may not have understood the post ... you may want to read it agaian .. the statement was if the weights are similar .. and no one said the performance would not be different .. the performance will be far superior with bigger wheels and less sidewall .... we take the same car on the track you and your 15s with a 3 inch side wall and me with a 17s with a 1.5 inch side wall you will get eaten alive in the corners, you will have body roll due to sidewall flex .
race cars don't go to big wheels and O rings for looks ...
race cars don't go to big wheels and O rings for looks ...