Wierd Shifting Problem 1984 944
09-27-2009, 10:50 PM
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Wierd Shifting Problem 1984 944
So,
I've already posted this on a few other forums, but this forum looks like its updated very often, and I wanted a few more opinions. I bought this 1984 944 about 3 weeks ago. I test drove it twice AND took it to a mechanic to look it over before buying it.
Well all checked out, so I went ahead and bought it. I drove it home the same day I bought about 15 miles with NO problems. So I get home and we load up the car because we are going to take it down to the Georgia Tech game. I go about 4 more miles and all of a sudden, the car would not shift from 3rd to 4th. It was like there was a wall....I was able to coast into a parking lot and stop and literally FORCE it into first. I limped the car back home basically trying to match rpms and slam the shifter into gear. When I pulled into the driveway (with the car on) I was magically able to get through all the gears with the car idling.
We were in a rush so I left the car in the driveway and we went to the game. Well, we got back and I thought I'd give it another go. I started the car in neutral (started fine) and was able to easily shift into reverse, and from reverse into first and then to second with no problems. I drove the car about a quarter of a mile and the problem started again. It was almost like the car was STUCK in gear. I was able to speed shift from 1st all the way to 4th no problem, but downshifting wasn't happening and getting from neutral to first wasn't happening either.
The only way to get home was to start the car in first. Well I let the car sit for a few hours and then tried again. Same thing. When the car was FIRST started I was able to get a few good shifts out of it and then it wouldn't go again. I flushed the transmission and didn't find any metal shavings and filled it up with synthetic. Still a no go.
Then I replaced the slave and master cylinders and bled the system real good. I still couldn't get it to shift into gear after it had been running for more than 2 or 3 minutes.
The weird thing was when I started the car in first, any time I would push on the accelerator or let off "quickly" I would hear a popping sound from underneath the car (maybe the clutch bell housing). Even wierder, sometimes I would come to a stop after the car had been running and magically be able to shift through all the gears again...
Its the weirdest thing. Well after the clutch and master cylinder replacement didn't help, I decided I was going to get into the clutch housing and see what was going on. I am almost there, but I just wanted to get some opinions as to what might be causing this.
All of the troubleshooting sites say that something in the clutch is probably cracked since it is hard to get into gear.
I should be into the clutch housing in the morning. Hopefully I will be able to see visible cracks or scratches on the disk or plate that can tell me whats going on. The first time I pulled the starter when I changed the master and slave there were no rubber chunks. The second time, when I was going for the clutch bell housing there were tiny rubber "shavings." Maybe my disk and pressure plate are going bad. I did a clutch disk wear check and it still has plenty, but maybe its a rubber centered disk and cracking.
Anyways SORRY for the long read, but I wanted to give every symptom to see if maybe one of you could pinpoint my problem.
Thanks for the help,
Matt
I've already posted this on a few other forums, but this forum looks like its updated very often, and I wanted a few more opinions. I bought this 1984 944 about 3 weeks ago. I test drove it twice AND took it to a mechanic to look it over before buying it.
Well all checked out, so I went ahead and bought it. I drove it home the same day I bought about 15 miles with NO problems. So I get home and we load up the car because we are going to take it down to the Georgia Tech game. I go about 4 more miles and all of a sudden, the car would not shift from 3rd to 4th. It was like there was a wall....I was able to coast into a parking lot and stop and literally FORCE it into first. I limped the car back home basically trying to match rpms and slam the shifter into gear. When I pulled into the driveway (with the car on) I was magically able to get through all the gears with the car idling.
We were in a rush so I left the car in the driveway and we went to the game. Well, we got back and I thought I'd give it another go. I started the car in neutral (started fine) and was able to easily shift into reverse, and from reverse into first and then to second with no problems. I drove the car about a quarter of a mile and the problem started again. It was almost like the car was STUCK in gear. I was able to speed shift from 1st all the way to 4th no problem, but downshifting wasn't happening and getting from neutral to first wasn't happening either.
The only way to get home was to start the car in first. Well I let the car sit for a few hours and then tried again. Same thing. When the car was FIRST started I was able to get a few good shifts out of it and then it wouldn't go again. I flushed the transmission and didn't find any metal shavings and filled it up with synthetic. Still a no go.
Then I replaced the slave and master cylinders and bled the system real good. I still couldn't get it to shift into gear after it had been running for more than 2 or 3 minutes.
The weird thing was when I started the car in first, any time I would push on the accelerator or let off "quickly" I would hear a popping sound from underneath the car (maybe the clutch bell housing). Even wierder, sometimes I would come to a stop after the car had been running and magically be able to shift through all the gears again...
Its the weirdest thing. Well after the clutch and master cylinder replacement didn't help, I decided I was going to get into the clutch housing and see what was going on. I am almost there, but I just wanted to get some opinions as to what might be causing this.
All of the troubleshooting sites say that something in the clutch is probably cracked since it is hard to get into gear.
I should be into the clutch housing in the morning. Hopefully I will be able to see visible cracks or scratches on the disk or plate that can tell me whats going on. The first time I pulled the starter when I changed the master and slave there were no rubber chunks. The second time, when I was going for the clutch bell housing there were tiny rubber "shavings." Maybe my disk and pressure plate are going bad. I did a clutch disk wear check and it still has plenty, but maybe its a rubber centered disk and cracking.
Anyways SORRY for the long read, but I wanted to give every symptom to see if maybe one of you could pinpoint my problem.
Thanks for the help,
Matt
09-27-2009, 11:16 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Did you check the linkage on the trans? I can't see how a bad clutch (especially a sheared rubber disc) could cause intermittent shifting problems. Is the clutch clearly disengaging when you push it down? (It sounds like it, since you are starting in 1st).
09-27-2009, 11:35 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
First, buy the best trans fluid you can afford... Redline gear lube is good, Swepco is another good lube, but not commonly available... new high quality fluid has a funny way of "fixing" all sort of trans related noises and function issues...
Change the trans fluid (90 weight gear lube)
Second, follow your entire linkage from the **** to the input rods for the transmission... You might find a loose bolt under the little rubber boot on the linkage on the transmission, or a loose retainer for the linkage on the side of the trans... or loose hardware somewhere else on the linkage, but the two I listed are the usual suspects... especially the one under the rubber boot... But only after a trans fluid swap... non-lubricated syncros can and will cause all sorts of problems...
Change the trans fluid (90 weight gear lube)
Second, follow your entire linkage from the **** to the input rods for the transmission... You might find a loose bolt under the little rubber boot on the linkage on the transmission, or a loose retainer for the linkage on the side of the trans... or loose hardware somewhere else on the linkage, but the two I listed are the usual suspects... especially the one under the rubber boot... But only after a trans fluid swap... non-lubricated syncros can and will cause all sorts of problems...
09-28-2009, 06:36 AM
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When I start in first after the car has been running, the car lurches forward when I turn the key and as I let off the clutch I sometimes get that popping noise. Before I dropped the transmission, I had someone shift through all of the gears with the car off while I watched the linkage. After the fluid swap I could tell that the shifting was smoother with the car not running, but I got the same problem.
The linkage was all secure and even when undoing the bolt attaching the linkage to the transmission "lever" the car was easily going into gear(while I was holding the linkage and turning the ratchet).
It has to be a problem that can show up in ALL gears suddenly as the car drove home PERFECTLY fine and the PO had driven the car for about 6 hours through all types of conditions the previous day. That's what lead me to believe I may have cracked the pressure plate or disk??
I've had a lot of people also say synchros. Will I be able to tell if it's the clutch that is messed up once I am in the housing? I don't have the budget to replace the clutch AND the transaxle, so if I get in there and all looks good, what should I do?
I'd really hate to do all that work, only replace the transaxle and still get the same result. Although, if I do replace the transaxle and do get the same problem I could always swap back or sell my old one because obviously it WAS working.
Thanks for the help
Matt
The linkage was all secure and even when undoing the bolt attaching the linkage to the transmission "lever" the car was easily going into gear(while I was holding the linkage and turning the ratchet).
It has to be a problem that can show up in ALL gears suddenly as the car drove home PERFECTLY fine and the PO had driven the car for about 6 hours through all types of conditions the previous day. That's what lead me to believe I may have cracked the pressure plate or disk??
I've had a lot of people also say synchros. Will I be able to tell if it's the clutch that is messed up once I am in the housing? I don't have the budget to replace the clutch AND the transaxle, so if I get in there and all looks good, what should I do?
I'd really hate to do all that work, only replace the transaxle and still get the same result. Although, if I do replace the transaxle and do get the same problem I could always swap back or sell my old one because obviously it WAS working.
Thanks for the help
Matt
10-19-2009, 12:21 AM
#6
Nordschleife Master
When I start in first after the car has been running, the car lurches forward when I turn the key and as I let off the clutch I sometimes get that popping noise. Before I dropped the transmission, I had someone shift through all of the gears with the car off while I watched the linkage. After the fluid swap I could tell that the shifting was smoother with the car not running, but I got the same problem.
The linkage was all secure and even when undoing the bolt attaching the linkage to the transmission "lever" the car was easily going into gear(while I was holding the linkage and turning the ratchet).
It has to be a problem that can show up in ALL gears suddenly as the car drove home PERFECTLY fine and the PO had driven the car for about 6 hours through all types of conditions the previous day. That's what lead me to believe I may have cracked the pressure plate or disk??
I've had a lot of people also say synchros. Will I be able to tell if it's the clutch that is messed up once I am in the housing? I don't have the budget to replace the clutch AND the transaxle, so if I get in there and all looks good, what should I do?
I'd really hate to do all that work, only replace the transaxle and still get the same result. Although, if I do replace the transaxle and do get the same problem I could always swap back or sell my old one because obviously it WAS working.
Thanks for the help
Matt
The linkage was all secure and even when undoing the bolt attaching the linkage to the transmission "lever" the car was easily going into gear(while I was holding the linkage and turning the ratchet).
It has to be a problem that can show up in ALL gears suddenly as the car drove home PERFECTLY fine and the PO had driven the car for about 6 hours through all types of conditions the previous day. That's what lead me to believe I may have cracked the pressure plate or disk??
I've had a lot of people also say synchros. Will I be able to tell if it's the clutch that is messed up once I am in the housing? I don't have the budget to replace the clutch AND the transaxle, so if I get in there and all looks good, what should I do?
I'd really hate to do all that work, only replace the transaxle and still get the same result. Although, if I do replace the transaxle and do get the same problem I could always swap back or sell my old one because obviously it WAS working.
Thanks for the help
Matt
1st check is to make sure your slave cylinder is adjusted properly, and second would be to look through the inspection port to see if you can see anything amis... 20 minutes of check can prevent an entire weekend of pulling apart only to find out it wasn't the clutch...
1) Has your clutch ever been replaced?
2) if the clutch was replaced, do you know if the pilot bearing was replaced at the same time?
10-19-2009, 09:55 AM
#7
A disintegrating rubber clutch donut can produce intermittent problems like this. But I would take a close look at the shift linkage too, especially at the transaxle end.
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10-19-2009, 11:28 AM
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Just thought I'd update...
Mike c hit the nail on the head. I've posted my story as Ive dissected the cat and when I finally got to the clutch, it was a rubber centered disk and there huge chunks missing out of it...I deformed a reference sensor whilenputting the car back together, so as soon as I get that sensor I'll get it back together and let you guys know the results!
Thanks for the help
matt
Mike c hit the nail on the head. I've posted my story as Ive dissected the cat and when I finally got to the clutch, it was a rubber centered disk and there huge chunks missing out of it...I deformed a reference sensor whilenputting the car back together, so as soon as I get that sensor I'll get it back together and let you guys know the results!
Thanks for the help
matt
