968 Turbo S for sale
07-19-2002, 01:22 PM
#16
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the original 968 Turbo (NOT OEM) Pistons are compatible with the 968 Alusil AND Nicasil Block.
So no bore and hole problem ;-)
Konstantin
So no bore and hole problem ;-)
Konstantin
07-19-2002, 04:14 PM
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<a href="http://www.968.net/racing/bruces_turbo_rs.htm" target="_blank">http://www.968.net/racing/bruces_turbo_rs.htm</a>
The above link is to some pictures of Bruce Corwin's Original Factory race turbo RS. This car came from the factory with an integral roll cage welded into the frame!! Some of the pictures are taken up at New Hampshire International Speedway. I saw the car up close and personal this past monday and Tuesday up at NHIS at a Northeast Region PCA Drivers Ed. This is one of a handful of factory race cars that the factory produced. I have been wondering about trying to adapt a naca duct to my 86 951 to replace the fender snorkle and pickup the boundary layer of air flowing over the hood like the 968 turbos do. Hey any of you guys know what happens when it rains when you have a naca duct. My car sits outside and its a daily driver. I asked bruce about this. He showed me the holes he drilled in the bottom of the duct. Of course his is not a daily driver so he doesn't have to worry about it. And you can see that the factory used the 951 air box as well. It can't be that bad if they still used it on this car. Although there must be a good reason why they got rid of the snorkle and used the naca duct. Another good idea is that the back of the intercooler is vented out the hood.
John
The above link is to some pictures of Bruce Corwin's Original Factory race turbo RS. This car came from the factory with an integral roll cage welded into the frame!! Some of the pictures are taken up at New Hampshire International Speedway. I saw the car up close and personal this past monday and Tuesday up at NHIS at a Northeast Region PCA Drivers Ed. This is one of a handful of factory race cars that the factory produced. I have been wondering about trying to adapt a naca duct to my 86 951 to replace the fender snorkle and pickup the boundary layer of air flowing over the hood like the 968 turbos do. Hey any of you guys know what happens when it rains when you have a naca duct. My car sits outside and its a daily driver. I asked bruce about this. He showed me the holes he drilled in the bottom of the duct. Of course his is not a daily driver so he doesn't have to worry about it. And you can see that the factory used the 951 air box as well. It can't be that bad if they still used it on this car. Although there must be a good reason why they got rid of the snorkle and used the naca duct. Another good idea is that the back of the intercooler is vented out the hood.
John
07-19-2002, 04:23 PM
#18
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"Where I think engines get into problems is that the outside of the block doesn't heat as much as the bore, so the expansion of the bore is restrained. The piston can grow unrestrained until it 'catches up' with the diameter of the bore... not a good thing."
Ah, yes I see, thanks. That's probably why our piston clearances are so large compared to other cars. The hyper-eutectic alloy of the block doesn't expand as much as regular aluminum, yet still more than a cast-iron block.
But, using hypo- or eutectic (cast or forged) pistons would have them expand faster than the block combined with the restrained expansion of the inner bore.
"the original 968 Turbo (NOT OEM) Pistons are compatible with the 968 Alusil AND Nicasil Block.
So no bore and hole problem ;-)"
Are they iron-coated like the 951 pistons too? Figured an iron-coated piston can fit into ANY bore and not have wear/seizing issues (unlike aluminum on aluminum).
Ah, yes I see, thanks. That's probably why our piston clearances are so large compared to other cars. The hyper-eutectic alloy of the block doesn't expand as much as regular aluminum, yet still more than a cast-iron block.
But, using hypo- or eutectic (cast or forged) pistons would have them expand faster than the block combined with the restrained expansion of the inner bore.
"the original 968 Turbo (NOT OEM) Pistons are compatible with the 968 Alusil AND Nicasil Block.
So no bore and hole problem ;-)"
Are they iron-coated like the 951 pistons too? Figured an iron-coated piston can fit into ANY bore and not have wear/seizing issues (unlike aluminum on aluminum).
07-20-2002, 03:25 PM
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the rings for the 968 Turbo are custom made and are not just a 104 mm ring from the S2 or 968.
they cost about $600.
Konstantin
they cost about $600.
Konstantin
07-21-2002, 02:45 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Konstantin:
[QB]
no problem pay $60000 and buy an original one;-)
but let me know how do you know if it is an original one or not. Between both cars, except the VIN all other parts are the same. even the last bolt and this car ha sthe updated 968 Turbo rods not the one that went originaly in the first cars that break under high load condition on teh track.
BTW if you are so rich ther eis one in the US with the original VIN but NO 968 Turbo engine. Buy both and swap the parts. I do not know if it is worth the money and the work but if you want an "original" it should be worth the money and the time...QB]<hr></blockquote>
Here's the thing. First of all, I don't live in the U.S., and second of all, I don't buy an extremely rare car to drive it on the track. If I have enough money to buy a car that there are less than 20 surviving, then I would do as others have done and build a "replica". Who cares if it has the updated rods. If you are driving that car hard enough and abusing a classic car like that, then you probably don't deserve it.
Also, it doesn't have the correct vin... which one is worth more???, the one with the updated rods or the completely origanal one? I think that I would rather own the original one. Original doesn't mean building it to spec, but that it still has all the parts that it rolled of the factory floor with. Later.
[QB]
no problem pay $60000 and buy an original one;-)
but let me know how do you know if it is an original one or not. Between both cars, except the VIN all other parts are the same. even the last bolt and this car ha sthe updated 968 Turbo rods not the one that went originaly in the first cars that break under high load condition on teh track.
BTW if you are so rich ther eis one in the US with the original VIN but NO 968 Turbo engine. Buy both and swap the parts. I do not know if it is worth the money and the work but if you want an "original" it should be worth the money and the time...QB]<hr></blockquote>
Here's the thing. First of all, I don't live in the U.S., and second of all, I don't buy an extremely rare car to drive it on the track. If I have enough money to buy a car that there are less than 20 surviving, then I would do as others have done and build a "replica". Who cares if it has the updated rods. If you are driving that car hard enough and abusing a classic car like that, then you probably don't deserve it.
Also, it doesn't have the correct vin... which one is worth more???, the one with the updated rods or the completely origanal one? I think that I would rather own the original one. Original doesn't mean building it to spec, but that it still has all the parts that it rolled of the factory floor with. Later.
07-21-2002, 09:44 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by ecpunk:
<strong>
I don't buy an extremely rare car to drive it on the track.
Who cares if it has the updated rods.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
so you would buy a 968 Turbo RS but you wouldn't race it???? It reminds me to the guys that buy a GT3 supercup but do not race it. Then why do you buy this car? for the garage?
Sorry but these car have been build for FAST driving and I mean realy FAST.
Wait till the rods break and then you will see who cares if it has the updated rods or not. Then you will have a LOT of time to think about it since yoy must spent a lot of $$$$ to fix it and if you ever find the corect parts??
Ask the guys with the 924 GTS clubsport how many years they try to find a head for this engine. It wouldn't be easier to fix the 968 Turbo in case of a damage and be sure the stock 968 rods wouldn't last that long (except if you keep the car in the garage all the time;-).
I doubt with your comment that if you want to race it you would build a replica. To build a perfect replica would cost you 3 times more than the original car goes for. (if you can find the parts to build it)
So it would be much cheaper to buy two original cars and race one of them and keep the other. You can still save the money for a third car.
Konstantin
<strong>
I don't buy an extremely rare car to drive it on the track.
Who cares if it has the updated rods.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
so you would buy a 968 Turbo RS but you wouldn't race it???? It reminds me to the guys that buy a GT3 supercup but do not race it. Then why do you buy this car? for the garage?
Sorry but these car have been build for FAST driving and I mean realy FAST.
Wait till the rods break and then you will see who cares if it has the updated rods or not. Then you will have a LOT of time to think about it since yoy must spent a lot of $$$$ to fix it and if you ever find the corect parts??
Ask the guys with the 924 GTS clubsport how many years they try to find a head for this engine. It wouldn't be easier to fix the 968 Turbo in case of a damage and be sure the stock 968 rods wouldn't last that long (except if you keep the car in the garage all the time;-).
I doubt with your comment that if you want to race it you would build a replica. To build a perfect replica would cost you 3 times more than the original car goes for. (if you can find the parts to build it)
So it would be much cheaper to buy two original cars and race one of them and keep the other. You can still save the money for a third car.
Konstantin
07-22-2002, 06:05 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Konstantin:
<strong>
so you would buy a 968 Turbo RS but you wouldn't race it???? It reminds me to the guys that buy a GT3 supercup but do not race it. Then why do you buy this car? for the garage?
Sorry but these car have been build for FAST driving and I mean realy FAST.
Wait till the rods break and then you will see who cares if it has the updated rods or not. Then you will have a LOT of time to think about it since yoy must spent a lot of $$$$ to fix it and if you ever find the corect parts??
Konstantin</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know if you read my post or not. NO I WOULD NOT DRIVE THE CAR THEREFORE IT WOULD NOT KILL THE RODS.
Yes I would buy it just to sit in the garage and be driven very rarely. Just enough to keep it in good running order.
How can you compare buying a massed produced GT3 to the very rare 968ts??? I'm sorry, but do you think that Jay Leno drive all of his cars on the track. I would go with very few. Yes, he does drive all of his cars, but not to see what they can do. You have to have some respect for the quality of a rare car that isn't meant to be driven often or hard.
"Hey guys, I just found a completely original, unrestored model T. I think I'll take it out to the track and see what it'll do against my Tucker!"
Sure.
<strong>
so you would buy a 968 Turbo RS but you wouldn't race it???? It reminds me to the guys that buy a GT3 supercup but do not race it. Then why do you buy this car? for the garage?
Sorry but these car have been build for FAST driving and I mean realy FAST.
Wait till the rods break and then you will see who cares if it has the updated rods or not. Then you will have a LOT of time to think about it since yoy must spent a lot of $$$$ to fix it and if you ever find the corect parts??
Konstantin</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know if you read my post or not. NO I WOULD NOT DRIVE THE CAR THEREFORE IT WOULD NOT KILL THE RODS.
Yes I would buy it just to sit in the garage and be driven very rarely. Just enough to keep it in good running order.
How can you compare buying a massed produced GT3 to the very rare 968ts??? I'm sorry, but do you think that Jay Leno drive all of his cars on the track. I would go with very few. Yes, he does drive all of his cars, but not to see what they can do. You have to have some respect for the quality of a rare car that isn't meant to be driven often or hard.
"Hey guys, I just found a completely original, unrestored model T. I think I'll take it out to the track and see what it'll do against my Tucker!"
Sure.
07-22-2002, 11:08 AM
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One of 17 or 25 or whatever, it is still just a car that was built to be driven fast and hard. A Model T was never built with track use in mind so you are kinda comparing apples and oranges.
Sure you'd be careful where you park it and what you drive over, but the car screams to be taken to the limit and often. To deny that would be about as horrible as buying it to sit in a garage somewhere.
Sure you'd be careful where you park it and what you drive over, but the car screams to be taken to the limit and often. To deny that would be about as horrible as buying it to sit in a garage somewhere.
07-22-2002, 12:32 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by doyle:
<strong> A Model T was never built with track use in mind so you are kinda comparing apples and oranges.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you mean the 968 T never been a arce car? I am not sure I understand but if so the T RS was a race car and except the suspension the engine etc was the same as in the S.
GT3 supercup: I said GT3 supercup and not GT3 and this is for sure not a mass car.
BTW do what you wnat and buy what you want and keep it in your garage or do not drive it at all. I just said my opinion. Either you do not understand what I mean or you have a problem with my opinion.
Yes I read your email. I think you are the one that you do NOT read carefully. GT3 supercup is not a street GT3!!!
and to be honest even if I love the 968 Turbo you can not say that the Gt3 is a mass car and the 968 T not. Both cras are limited. Porsche wanted to build 100 cars of the 968 Too. Only becuase tehy build less than that it doesnt mean it is something total diferent. The 968 T was what the GT3 is today and teh 968 T RS was what the GT3 supercup is today. The problem is that people pay more atension to teh 911 and not many knows what a 968 T RS is (probably thats why the high price)
And to close the discusion as it seems silly to me what WE are talking about.
A SPORT car is to drive it sporty. A race car to race it. If you do not want to drive it at all do not buy it and lett somebody else be happy with this car. The one that keep the car in the garage do not deserve it no the one who bought it to drive it. Thats why they build a sport (race) car otherwise buy something else, a paint for your living room maybe?
(this is just my opinion and I think true car enthousiasts think the same)
Konstantin
PS sorry but I always must laugth when I see brand new GT3 geting laped by stock 944 NA. I think these guys think the same as you. My car is just to nice to drive it/race it hard.
PS2: The cars with the highest value are race car NOT in bets condition but still with the original paint, original damaged bumbers and original scratches on the paint. This is original for me. RACE it now before it is to late. Life is very short, much shorter than you think
<strong> A Model T was never built with track use in mind so you are kinda comparing apples and oranges.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Do you mean the 968 T never been a arce car? I am not sure I understand but if so the T RS was a race car and except the suspension the engine etc was the same as in the S.
GT3 supercup: I said GT3 supercup and not GT3 and this is for sure not a mass car.
BTW do what you wnat and buy what you want and keep it in your garage or do not drive it at all. I just said my opinion. Either you do not understand what I mean or you have a problem with my opinion.
Yes I read your email. I think you are the one that you do NOT read carefully. GT3 supercup is not a street GT3!!!
and to be honest even if I love the 968 Turbo you can not say that the Gt3 is a mass car and the 968 T not. Both cras are limited. Porsche wanted to build 100 cars of the 968 Too. Only becuase tehy build less than that it doesnt mean it is something total diferent. The 968 T was what the GT3 is today and teh 968 T RS was what the GT3 supercup is today. The problem is that people pay more atension to teh 911 and not many knows what a 968 T RS is (probably thats why the high price)
And to close the discusion as it seems silly to me what WE are talking about.
A SPORT car is to drive it sporty. A race car to race it. If you do not want to drive it at all do not buy it and lett somebody else be happy with this car. The one that keep the car in the garage do not deserve it no the one who bought it to drive it. Thats why they build a sport (race) car otherwise buy something else, a paint for your living room maybe?
(this is just my opinion and I think true car enthousiasts think the same)
Konstantin
PS sorry but I always must laugth when I see brand new GT3 geting laped by stock 944 NA. I think these guys think the same as you. My car is just to nice to drive it/race it hard.
PS2: The cars with the highest value are race car NOT in bets condition but still with the original paint, original damaged bumbers and original scratches on the paint. This is original for me. RACE it now before it is to late. Life is very short, much shorter than you think
07-23-2002, 09:10 PM
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Thank you mr philosopher Konstantin. I don't understand your broken english, but that is beside the point.
I am one of those people who lap the gt3's. Quit repeating yourself about the gt3 supercup. I had never heard of it. Sorry, I'm not a Porsche junky, but I do know that a model T is a ford. I also know that you don't really use the gold encrested fine china to eat off of with the real silverware along with the breakably thin crystal. I have respect for beauty and craftmanship. Yes, I do think that a orig 968TS is too nice to race.
Last thing, I do have a good concept of how short life is and I know that I would like to preserve it for my children and not destroy it instead. You don't know anything about me, so don't make assumptions. It is just a bad policy to have.
Out.
I am one of those people who lap the gt3's. Quit repeating yourself about the gt3 supercup. I had never heard of it. Sorry, I'm not a Porsche junky, but I do know that a model T is a ford. I also know that you don't really use the gold encrested fine china to eat off of with the real silverware along with the breakably thin crystal. I have respect for beauty and craftmanship. Yes, I do think that a orig 968TS is too nice to race.
Last thing, I do have a good concept of how short life is and I know that I would like to preserve it for my children and not destroy it instead. You don't know anything about me, so don't make assumptions. It is just a bad policy to have.
Out.
07-23-2002, 09:28 PM
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When a friend of mine built his first 3L turbo out of an S2, he was extatic and so proud to have this new machiene he created.........for the next 8 months or so he beat the living hell out of the car, and babied it at the same time.....until one day he crashed. I remember feeling for his loss (the car).......and he looked at me and said, "that was the best year of my life, and I have no regrets about the crash". WHY??? Because he did what the car was made to do, and what he was suppose to do. Drive the car HARD. I do the smae to my cars....I dont own a Porsche just to have it. I like to drive my cars. -Turby
07-24-2002, 02:00 AM
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Yeah Turby, that is great and everything, but I am seeing it from a non-greedy point of view. I would like after I am gone one day that someone else might be able to enjoy the same things that I have. I don't want them to only see it in movies or pictures.
Little off the wall, but "Hey lets go cut down all the redwoods to make houses and furniture and..." Do you see where I am coming from. Once they're all gone, there are none left. Oops.
Little off the wall, but "Hey lets go cut down all the redwoods to make houses and furniture and..." Do you see where I am coming from. Once they're all gone, there are none left. Oops.
07-24-2002, 12:42 PM
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strange that you lap a GT3 with your old 944 but you do not know what a GT3 supercup is???
BTW: drive hard do not means kill the car.
Konstantin
PS: (sorry for my broken English. I bet you German are much better;-) Then I could express my self better and you could understand what I mean.
BTW: drive hard do not means kill the car.
Konstantin
PS: (sorry for my broken English. I bet you German are much better;-) Then I could express my self better and you could understand what I mean.
07-24-2002, 12:59 PM
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Sorry to jump in the middle of this heated debate, but does anyone if there is a Strut tower brace like the one in the pic ecpunk posted available for a 944?
Thx
Paul
PS - THey're both beautiful cars. Whoever pays for it deserves to own it. Doesn't matter what anyone wants to do with their car. It's like the MPAA/RIAA telling us what we can do with the computers/media we purchase....To each his own. Race it, store it, it's yours, enjoy it how you'd like to...
JM2C
Thx
Paul
PS - THey're both beautiful cars. Whoever pays for it deserves to own it. Doesn't matter what anyone wants to do with their car. It's like the MPAA/RIAA telling us what we can do with the computers/media we purchase....To each his own. Race it, store it, it's yours, enjoy it how you'd like to...
JM2C
