Matt O.

[quote] Those who complain the loudest have hopefully lived somewhere else then just in their mommys house So they know the differnce and how good they have it.
<hr></blockquote>

I hope you weren't referring to me with this comment. I have seen (yet fortunately haven't had to experience) both sides of the coin.

This will be my last post because I can see where this is going...

PCinDC

I thought this thread was about one freaking amazing Vette..?!?!?

WTF happened?

Settle down guys - Democrats, republicans independant, American, European, Australian, Russian, Chinese, Indian, Egyptian, Saudi Whatever...

We're all human...


And above that, WE're all Porsche Enthusiasts...
Isn't that enough to keep us away from eachother's throats?

Now how about that vette!?!??

Paul

TaboII

A few words.

We are all in for a very bumpy ride I don’t think any one can dispute this. I will do what I can as a good American and hope that the corrupt don’t end up with the control. I speak my mind where it is necessary and vote to try and prevent lies from becoming lawmakers. However, until Americans come together and work side by side for something other than personal gain then we will only dig ourselves into a bigger hole. We shouldn’t need laws to tell us how to live but with out laws the corrupt run free and we all end up losing in the end. It is a downward spiral that it appears we are on. I just hope that more of us can see life for what it truly represents then and only then will peace be had for every one. It saddens me to be brining children up in a world that only few of us take the time to assist our fellow man with out expecting any more than a hand shake and a thank you. I will continue and be as best a role model for my children’s future that I can. I can only hope more of us can see the danger we are bringing on ourselves as a whole. Sorry I am getting upset just thinking about all this.


P.S. Try lending a free hand to someone truly in need and you will find a friend for life.
I will just ask! Will you do the same?

thomschoon

NO Matt is wasn't about you, many people on this board live at a standard that they will have to work twice as hard as their parents to achieve. But that is one of the advantages to living in a free society and the right to strive for succuss as well as b$tch. I think this is the greatest country in the world and all the comments here prove that as where else could you actually say such things and not worry about getting your door kicked down and your head caved in.

Try spending some time in most asian countries and you will see what oppression really means.

jaibeiber

if the gun was never invented we would be so much better off. and anyone that would fight for this country i pity. how could you sleep at night knowing that you are trained to take a life. you may think america is a cause but what about humanity. isnt that a greater cause. yeh we live in america, we are f*cking number one, in crime in drug addiction, in education no, what we are like 23 or something.

think about this. the egyptian empire was the most powerful in the world, but they fell, the roman empire was once the most powerful in the world, they too fell, china was one of the most powerful empires in the world, and they fell too. all these empires lasted longer then america has been a country. give us time. we will fall to.

Crackhead944S

[quote]the egyptian empire was the most powerful in the world, but they fell, the roman empire was once the most powerful in the world, they too fell, china was one of the most powerful empires in the world <hr></blockquote>

Most of the discussion here revolves around just that. The pharaohs ran Egypt. The Roman Empire was run by a bunch of fat corrupt Senators (a la Ted Kennedy D-MA). China was run by a bunch of bureaucrats (a la bunch of lawyers). I think that is what everyone here does not want. We want the US to be run by the people for the people, not some huge bureaucracy. How many people now work for the government? What is that in percentage terms of the total workforce?

You yourself said it best 23 in education. If I am not mistaken, the government runs the majority of the educational system in the US. Oh, you want to throw more money at the problem and then it will go away, good idea.

The US government takes more than half of its peoples salaries as it is. Federal taxes, State Taxes, Property Taxes, registration fees, licensing fees, gas tax, capital gains taxes,…….for what? If I am not mistaken and I could be less than ¼ of it is spent on national defense. If less of my money went to the US Government, you can bet I would give more back to my local community. The money they hand out comes from you and I anyway and I bet we know better who truly needs it in our area.

And despite this burden of government, we still kick ***. Why because the individual reigns supreme in the US of A. USA, USA, USA!!!!!

Oh yeah and anyone who voluntarily signs up for the US military, to protect the values and ideals that this country stands for, THANK YOU.

keith

Wow, lots of one-sidedness abounds!

BTW, as someone who volunteered for military service, let me caution some of you not to be blindly led by your leaders, or neighbors, or whatever. You can't necessarily trust the guy in the big chair any more than you can trust me, and don't assume he is any smarter than you are, either. And please stop talking like any political party has your best interests in mind, or I'll have to puke on my keyboard.

And as far as being able to sleep at night as a trained killer, you need to wake up, my friend. You need to leave the house and actually MEET some military personnel.

Whenever we have these threads it becomes all too clear to me why everyone seems so content with a two-party system in this country. We'd rather pick a side and align ourselves to REACT, than to THINK independently (about anything, apparently)
Seems as if everyone is defined by what they "are against" nowadays...

BTW, all governments are in the business of self-preservation. Get used to it. There isn't any right and wrong on that level.

Robby

Matt-
I respect you and your views and while I agree w/some, I have to disagree that Clinton took advantage of Lewinski- especially if you're implying that it should be illegal... First, even if he DID, she's WELL above 18. I've known many 16yr olds that were much more mature than some 25yr olds I've dated- I've also seen MANY girls who were 14, 15, 16, who could pass for MUCH older and get a good guy in trouble BUT, there is no fair way to access who is mature enough and who is not, so we agree upon the age of 18- SO, the VERY DAY a girl turns 18, she's adult- FAIR GAME- assuming she "CONSENTED." Many parents now days are trying to sue men for having sex w/their 18 - 20yr daughters, b/c they are "close" to being under age, and/or the man was more than 2yrs older- this is BS- if she's over, she's over. Anyway, do you really think, after seeing all the video tapes of her running around w/her friends and hearing her family & friends talk about her, etc, that she was the INNOCENT LITTLE LAMB that she tried to portray? Please! SHE went for HIM! I don't think it was ALL her mind you, it takes two, but still, don't lay it all on him- it was b/c of his power, etc, that she wanted him- he didn't have to push her. I think he should have just told the media to take a flying fu** at the moon when they asked him about it- it was nobody's business- it's really sad when the American media and public has nothing better to do than to sit around and wonder about where, when, why, how, and who (into) the president shoots his wad. Not that I'm a Clinton fan or anything. BTW- isn't it odd that everyone made such a big deal out of it? Look at what kind of lifestyle JFK led. Of course, there was more respect in those days- you never would have seen bumper stickers back then that read "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him or her either!"

Thomshoon-
****As one of those who gets taxed in the higher bracket...it pretty much p$ssess me off to be...****

As one who gets taxed in the lowest tax bracket, I STILL completely agree w/you...

TabII-
I agree- we ARE in for a "bumpy ride" and it is getting to be a BAD world to bring children into- especially when there are SOOO MANY to begin with- it's beyond me how someone can want and/or justify having extremely large families for that very reason, but, when you can afford to feed and support them, then I guess it is your choice- when you can't, then, well, I better stop here...

Oh, 944Sboyee, I almost forgot-
****Call me nuts, but when you all...present your license to the police and keep your banking records in that chip you all will eventually have in your hands - then come back and tell me I'm wrong****

AMEN brother! I've been saying it for YEARS, and have been called crazy, paranoid, silly, stupid, and that I watch too many movies, etc, while all the while it get's closer and closer, and if you can't see it by now, then, may God help you...

jaibeiber-

Sorry man, but WTF? If guns weren't ever made, we would be in much the same way- maybe even worse- have you ever been stabbed? I don't know where to go on this one, but I do respect your right to your own opinion, only, I wish you would rethink it a little more carefully- no offense intended of course...


Mark-
****The US government takes more than half of its peoples salaries as it is...for what? If less of my money went to the US Government, you can bet I would give more back to my local community****

WELL PUT! Like I said earlier- the wealthy people control the economy- being taxed so heavily only encourages them to squirrel it away...

Keith-
I agree here too- I would NEVER admit to being either Democrat OR Republican. We need both parties, but I believe we need another one to be strong too- maybe the Libertarians?

Water944T-
****I would personally tolerate the occasional attack, rather than the outright theft of liberties...****

Excellent- I agree wholeheartedly... Thanks for listing some more great quotes.

BTW- not sure if I mentioned it, or not, but that was a cool video

Water944t

[quote]Originally posted by Matt R. Olde:
<strong>With all due respect...



Please tell me, HOW do you know he isn't a smart man, and HOW do you know he isn't a good man? The media? For one, you can't be stupid and fly fighters in the USAF (guard or not). Oh wait, he has a Texan accent and says words different - he MUST be stooopid. That's right, we elect our Presidents based upon charisma on TV, good actors in other words. I'll take Bush as the world's worst actor/speaker any day, over previous administrations who have been charismatic and tricked the masses. If the criteria for being President is to have an IQ of 200000 and captivate audiences with your speach, then yes, you are right - Bush is not the man for the job.

Anyway, I respect you and your views, I really do. How you come to some of those views at the same time you proclaim all those good quotes from real patriots, and at the same time you profess neither the democrat or republican, is beyond me. I too am neither democrat or republican, I just vote for one of them every time.

-Matt</strong><hr></blockquote>


Matt --


No offence bro, but at 22, you simply lack the perspective for all of this. I did too at 22.

Monica Lewinsky, as someone else pointed out, was an adult. She could suck and dick she wanted, and if you think power isnt sexy, you need to read bit more history. More than one American president has used the Oval Office for "Oral" briefs.

You mentioned something about my claiming that Cheney was a crook.

Read this. <a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/783040.asp?pne=msn" target="_blank">Cheney becomes liability for GOP</a>


If you think that getting some *** is on the same level as stealing an election, or hooking your fat-cat oil buddies up with billions in government contracts and slush funded pork...well, all I can say is, you need to look at this more closely.

You are obviously a bright guy. Like Danno so adroitly pointed out, it is only by discarding the things you are told, and doing the leg work yourself, that you will be able to even have a chance to discerne the truth.

I have put my life on the line, in combat, fo rthis country. I think that this is the greatest place to live on the planet, but it is being destroyed from within, by forces that have no interest in the long term stability of the US, but rather are motivated by the pursuit of personal power and wealth.

That is just plain wrong. Its wrong for me, for my children, for everyone.

i respect your opinions Matt, and I hope that you will take my advice, and look deeper than what you have been told. Critical thinking is a vanishing skill these days.

Water944t

[quote]Originally posted by jaibeiber:
<strong>if the gun was never invented we would be so much better off. and anyone that would fight for this country i pity. how could you sleep at night knowing that you are trained to take a life. you may think america is a cause but what about humanity. isnt that a greater cause. yeh we live in america, we are f*cking number one, in crime in drug addiction, in education no, what we are like 23 or something.

think about this. the egyptian empire was the most powerful in the world, but they fell, the roman empire was once the most powerful in the world, they too fell, china was one of the most powerful empires in the world, and they fell too. all these empires lasted longer then america has been a country. give us time. we will fall to.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You I have less respect for. When you have served, and have a clue, you have my attention again. When you have been to 43 countries like I have, when you have seen the conditions and the lives that people live in places like Africa, or the Middle east. When you have seen people who have no hope, who are lucky to get one year of education, who live on less than $100 a year.

Because the wisdom of a person who has no experience is worth what you pay for it. Nothing. The allegory to the Roman Empire is a good one though, this country should se wary of Senators and self-imposed Emperors.

Without the gun, we wouldnt be here, I agree. We would likely be speaking German. Or Arabic. Or Mongolian. The gun is not the issue, it never has been. No gun has ever leapt up and killed a man. And the gun has been a primary factor in the evolution of the species over the last 200 years. Without it, there would be no America at all. And without America, there would be no telephone, no automobile, no microwave or cellular phones. No Internet, or airplanes. America has been a bastion of progress from the word go.

You sound like one of those bleeding heart liberal types. Thats cool, if you like that kind of thing. Good luck with that Kum-Bay-Yah thing.

The reason that we are so screwed, it that our leaders have failed us. They have lined their own pockets for decades, at the expense of the American people. The fault does not lie with the American ideals or way of life. It is squarely on the shoulders of men like Ken Lay, and Dick Cheney. Men who value power over integrity. Who see themselves as better intrinsically than the peasants.

And the real reason they have been able to rape us, is that we the people are generally happy, as long as we can get a Double Meat GutBomb, and spend the afternoon at Wal-Mart. We have put ourselves here through our own apathy.

Time for some No-Doze, and some asskicking, I think.

Those who are ignorant of history, are doomed to repeat it.

Water944t

I just cant leave this alone.


Does it bother anyone else that our Government openly admits that there are many things which they have deemed secrets? Thing which they claim we the people have no need to know?

Who decided that? I am a pretty smart guy, I dont faint at new information.

Who decided Slick Dick Cheney could meet with Enron execs two weeks before the biggest bankruptcy in history (up to that point) and then refuse to tell us what was said and done?

Any time a governmwnt feels it has done things it needs to keep a secret, that should be a giant red ****ing flag to the rest of us. They did something we probably wouldnt have done, or approved of.

Has everyone forgotten that these assclowns ostensibly work for us, by us, and only us? We ARE the people. We pay their salaries, "elect" them(ahem..) and they hide **** from us and do dirty crap behind our backs?

I would fire an employee for that ****, in a heartbeat.

I say we fire them all, all the 20 term senators, all the lifer Washington sycophants, all the power players, and movers and shakers that love the cocktail circuit. They are the Anti-Americans. All the lobbyists should just be drowned. Any man who can lobby for **** he knows hurts someone else doesnt need to be wasting any of our decreasing oxygen supplies.

<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Matt O.

Water944t,

I feel bad prolonging this "OT Post" for those who hate it, but I should probably reply to clear some things up that I didn't seem to get across well.

[quote] Monica Lewinsky, as someone else pointed out, was an adult.<hr></blockquote>

I don't feel bad for Monica Lewinsky. I think anyone who does is stupid. BUT that does NOT change the fact that what he did was WRONG, and to lie about it, and pressure others to lie, just to save face, is WRONG and, as I stated before, if you or I did that, we'd be in jail. He looked at me and you and the nation in the face and said he did not have "sexual relations" with her - bold face lie. I expect much more out of my president, AND commander in Chief and I truly hope you do as well.

I personally think Monica Lewinsky is a moron, although I somewhat feel sad for her in that for the rest of her life she will be Monica Lewinsky - who will want her? But it's her own damn fault - she shouldn't be out "home-wrecking" - president or no president. Yet at the same time individuals like Clarence Thomas are nearly crucified by the public/media, at a hint of sexual harrassment. You well know, in the military if you are in a higher-ranking position and have any sort of relation with a much lower-ranking female, who WORKS for you = conflict of interest. As Commander in Chief, my argument is simply that he should have known better, I don't care if Monica threw herself at him butt-naked - he should have acted like a man and kept it in his pants (let alone NOT lie about it when it hit the fan). REGARDLESS of what FDR or any other president has done, that's not how the person I want in the highest office to conduct himself. There was also the Jennifer Flowers case, but we won't get into that.

[quote]You mentioned something about my claiming that Cheney was a crook.
Read this. Cheney becomes liability for GOP<hr></blockquote>

I'll read it, but it's from MSNBC, not exactly an unbiased source of information. It says "Halliburton probe a mounting worry for Bush..." - did anyone bother to ask BUSH if he was worried? He responded to one reporter with "we're not worried, the truth will come out" or something to that effect, but you probably won't find that on MSNBC or CNN. Now, I have to believe him until I otherwise have a reason to distrust him. If it hits the fan and he's a liar and a crook, trust me, I will be the first one to say so. Until then, accusations can be made by anyone.

[quote]If you think that getting some *** is on the same level as stealing an election,<hr></blockquote>

Why is one situation, in your mind, just "getting some ***" and then another "stealing an election." You seem to go from one extreme to the other, where it suits. SOMEONE please explain to me HOW Bush stole the election in Florida. From what I recall, there was a count, a recount, and a recount, and EVEN after all that, independed organizations such as CNN counted the ballots and Bush STILL came out ahead.

[quote]
or hooking your fat-cat oil buddies up with billions in government contracts and slush funded pork...
<hr></blockquote>

Have you ever heard of Occidental Petrolium? If so, you know my point. If not, look into it and you may change your opinion that Bush/Cheney are the *only* politicians with oil co. backgrounds.

[quote]
well, all I can say is, you need to look at this more closely.
<hr></blockquote>

Trust me, I will remain open-minded. If Bush or Cheney turn out to be crooks, and are impeached, so be it. But you have to grant me, and them, the same respect in that if nothing comes of this, don't throw accusations of criminal activity regarding them. And at the same time, don't act as though all Clinton did was "get some ***," because, although you proclaim neither democrat or republican, that just seems like an awfully slanted view.

Thanks for the good debate. Again, I respect you for your service, and appreciate your wisdom of 43 countries and years in the military has to offer.

-Matt

Paul Bloomberg

Have another beer : ), fall off your soap box, find another forum to vent your anger at others,
Whom you seem to have sooo.. much anger towards... that you don't even know!!!
I thought that the rennlist was supposed to be about PORSCHES, not discribing sex acts of some lame presidents IMHO.......
I really don't get the gun rights stuff, then you are supporting the DEMS???? These political rants are getting old.
I have a idea :&gt the next time I get into a debate with someone. I will do it via my/their e-mail. That would elimate the OT posts, but then that probably woundn't fulfull the needy ego's of some to profess their opinions constantly to those who didn't ask for them!
I VOTE!!!
Respectfully,
Paul

jaibeiber

water944t. first. most of the poor countrys exist because our corporations are employing people for pennys a day. so everytime you buy nike shoes you are just helping the poverty in those countrys.

second my father has been to kenya on a mission trip. and he said the people in small villages in the middle of no where are very happy, much more happy then those who live in the big citys who have been introduced to our life styles.

thirdly, do you honestly believe none of those things would have been invented if we werent here. give me a break.

fourthly, the US media has made it sound like the woman in the middle east hate the way they are treated, but in reality i have read interviews from independent media's and from what it sounds like they are happy. so who are we to tell them how to live.

next do you realize we spend 300 billion dollars a year on the military. russia spends the second most amount at 50 billion. and so on. US has 7 countries they consider enemys and there total military funds add up to 17 billion dollars. and then when you add up our allies military expences we are at 550 billion. do we really need that much more power. no not at all. i think we should put that money at greater risks, like cancer or aids. or help the poor. but i guess i feel better knowing we can destroy the planet 17 times over.

now on the topic of guns. now i am not 100% sure on these numbers but i am pretty close or at least you can get the idea. but i think its austria has the second most hand gun murders at like 5000 i think. asnd of course we are number with i believe 350,000 a year.

so keep your opinions coming. ill do my best to show you the other angle of looking at it.

Danno

"next do you realize we spend 300 billion dollars a year on the military. russia spends the second most amount at 50 billion. and so on. US has 7 countries they consider enemys and there total military funds add up to 17 billion dollars."

With the warming of relations between the U.S. since glasnost, the truth has come out. The Soviets had nowhere near the arsenal we were led to believe by our government (in some areas, the U.S. had a 10:1 advantage). But, the U.S. military-industrial-complex had to keep itself alive... (and all the pork)...

"I don't feel bad for Monica Lewinsky. I think anyone who does is stupid. BUT that does NOT change the fact that what he did was WRONG, and to lie about it, and pressure others to lie, just to save face, is WRONG and, as I stated before, if you or I did that, we'd be in jail."

No, he just got caught for it...

"I say we fire them all, all the 20 term senators, all the lifer Washington sycophants, all the power players, and movers and shakers that love the cocktail circuit. They are the Anti-Americans. All the lobbyists should just be drowned. Any man who can lobby for **** he knows hurts someone else doesnt need to be wasting any of our decreasing oxygen supplies."

Right on!!! You should see what these senators are doing to the girls on Saipan! And they're taking these pleasure trips on our tax dollars! Ever since WWII, Saipan has been a 'U.S. possession'. They aren't afforded the rights guaranteed by the Consitution, yet don't enjoy autonomy, self-determination or elections either.