FSTPRSH

86951,

Katana's are typically under powered and over weight. All of my friends that have "can-o-tunas" are running the Dunlop DO10 tires. They all went vertical as I went back horizontal. But, I'm the only one in the group that can start a burnout at 25 mph. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> Who know's, I could have a set of tires that were made at the end of the day on a Friday. That would be my luck.

mrmunky

i have michelin pilot sport 18/225s all around on my 944.. i don't know the specific reason for their being so expensive, but you definitely get what you pay for. these grip like no other tire i've driven on. beautiful.

Scott Heckert

Sorry I messed up the tire sizes that I posted. 225/50/16 Front and 245/45/16 Rear. I have 7 inch wide rims in the front and 8 inch wide rims in the rear. What do you plan on doing with the car as far as driving??? If it is just daily driving you may want a higher tread wear so they last longer. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

IceShark

Tim, I was talking about manufacturer level, lots of games get played at retail. The big margins are in performance and specialty tires .... like the ones that go on a Terex dump truck. You know those working monsters that are about as big as your house. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

User 462021

[quote]Originally posted by IceShark:
<strong>Tim, I was talking about manufacturer level, lots of games get played at retail. The big margins are in performance and specialty tires .... like the ones that go on a Terex dump truck. You know those working monsters that are about as big as your house. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Gotcha, I should have known you were talking about the wholesale side!

Danno

I think Michelins in general have the best ride, if that's important to anyone...

adrial

IMO Michelin's are the most expensive tire because everybody loves that little guy on TV in the tire that is always getting saved thanks to how good Michelin's are...

Basically, Michelin charges so much because they CAN...I don't think their product is good enough to warrant the price of their tires...

When I go looking for tires...I dont even glance at Michelin's because of the price...

Right now I'm running BF Goodrich T/A KDW's...we'll see how much longer they last. After 10k miles and 8 autox's they are pretty much shot....hope I'll pass inspection tomorow.

--Adrial

kkamakasi

Thread revival! Blast from the past.

It seems a lot of people question the pricey-ness of michelin tires and come to the conclusion that its the brand or its just "better" than the rest..

As a professional that used to work in the tires raw materials industry as a major supplier to all the major tire brands, I will try to explain why Michelin tires cost more.

Bottom line is, they use the best rubber to make their tires.
Let me explain a bit further.

One of the major components when it comes to tire manufacturing is rubber (duh). There are two types that go into producing tires: 1). synthetic rubber and 2). natural rubber.

As the names suggest, synthetic rubber is made using chemicals derived from crude oil and natural rubber is.. harvested, for lack of a better word, from rubber trees. The two can be interchanged in a tire recipe to a certain degree but modern tire production recipe calls for both in varying ratios depending on brand and type of tire.

Natural rubber production is dominated by a few rubber producing countries in Southeast Asia (Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, Vietnam.. to name a few). As you may expect, natural rubber prices are heavily influenced by the harvest and environmental factors such as drought, monsoons, etc since it is harvested from rubber trees. It is also influenced by inventory levels in China, one of the biggest outlets for natural rubber (like many other commodities nowadays) but that's another story.

Before synthetic rubber was developed in the early part of the 20th century, tire production required natural rubber. And as natural rubber came from rubber trees, to avoid any significant variations and deviations that could throw off tire recipes and production, tire manufacturers designated certain specific grades for use in tire production. And so over time, as tire production became more advanced, the types and grades of natural rubber used in tire production became standardized to be able to control production quality and uniform production.

This means, natural rubber really has no effect in why some tire brands cost more than others since they are all pretty much using the same type/grade of natural rubber for which they all pay the same price to procure.

That leaves us with synthetic rubber; SBR (styrene-butadiene rubber) to be exact.

There are two types of SBR: 1). emulsion SBR and 2). solution SBR.

Without further technical explanation on the chemical make-up or production processes of each, which I do not know too much about (as I was in the commercial side of this industry as a trader), emulsion SBR is cheaper than solution SBR.

Synthetic rubber was first available only as e-SBR. It was a very versatile type of rubber with wide applications depending on the specific grades within the e-SBR category. Later during development, s-SBR was introduced but it required more research and more high tech ingredients. S-SBR required its application to be very specific, meaning it is not a very versatile type of SBR but rather a application-specific grade. Therefore, S-SBR costs much more than E-SBR.

As tire applications gradually shifted from mostly simple everyday uses (non-performance) to the current performance-heavy applications (such as high performance cars, all-season performance, wet weather tires, snow tires, etc), S-SBR is the grade that needs to be used for these specific tire categories.

Michelin is one of few tire producers that purchase and use s-SBR in their performance tires.

Bottom line is, they use the best synthetic rubber to produce their tires. Of course, it may not be just the cost of raw materials that may justify their exponential tire cost but I can say with confidence that it is the major portion of why Michelin tires cost more than the rest.

Hope I shed some light on this topic..

And oh yeah.... first post

Voith

Welcome aboard

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Mister Quickie

In this case "just because you pay more doesn't mean you get more" comes to mind. In my experience, my Eagle GTs handle everything brilliantly, Michelins are useless the second a drop of water hits the road

NoRush993/951

Hard to beat the Michelin Super Sport tires. Extra smooth ride and great grip. I'll have to pay closer attention the next time it rains to see how they handle when wet.

944meister

Michelin Pilot Super Sports have been phenomenal on the street in my experience. Excellent grip and response in dry, mild and cold wet conditions. Even drove them one night that was unexpectedly below 32°f and they still gripped well, which wasn't the case for the high performance continental a/s tires I initially purchased. I found the continentals a/s to be at best, dangerous to drive on below 32°f in the PCNW.

Dino V

The last Michelin tire I bought were the PS2, really liked them and also quiet.

harveyf

Tire threads may run a close second to oil threads Of course, if you go back far enough (which I do) Michelin was one of the first manufacturers in the 60's and 70's from which I could buy high performance radial tires for my sports cars. So I got in the Michelin "habit" back then. Over the years I have been lured into other brands, mainly based on cost. It's purely anecdotal but I have had more than a few brands "go off" when about 1/2 used up. Balance problems, tread separations, noise. Knock on wood but Michelins have been very good to me in that regard. Good to the last mile, so to speak. I bought a set (at great expense) for my Ford F150 truck. Very quiet. And I can carve that beast pretty aggresively through the twisties. Pretty amazing. So yes, I do prefer Michelins and will pay for them as required.

Another data point. I met Andy, a Michelin engineer, at a recent DE event. Michelin has a strong manufacturing presence in South Carolina, where Andy works. He said they were very proud that they had refined (lowered) their manufacturing costs to beat the Chinese cost to produce the same tire, when shipping costs were factored in. He said tires are very inefficient to ship due to their shape. So when you buy Michelin tires in the US you are generally "Buying American" if that is important to you.

odurandina

Dunlop or Michelle's to the bitter end.