The time has come... solid lifters!!!
08-20-2009, 11:22 PM
#16
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Ok I understand the needs for solid lifters. The point is so they dont colapse and cause engine damage under extreme rpms. I put 25 miles tops a week on my car so I am not real worried about maintance. ( I live 150 yard from work so I just walk ). I planned on going solid because factory lifters are so much higher for what they are it just seemed easier to put more in so I didnt just have to do it later. I would be willing to go factory if someone had a decect set for sale.
Also, I really apprecite you expecting me too fail. the reason I sound like an idiot when I ask a question is because most people give a better discription for the prodject ahead when they assume the person is nieve.
Also, I really apprecite you expecting me too fail. the reason I sound like an idiot when I ask a question is because most people give a better discription for the prodject ahead when they assume the person is nieve.
08-20-2009, 11:31 PM
#17
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my e46 M3 has solid lifters, follower/tappet...
they need checked every 25k miles and a few usually need adjusted with shims...
pita, takes me ~4 hours
the tolerances are:
Intake spec ~ 0.18 to 0.23mm.
Exhaust spec ~ 0.28 to 0.33mm
+/- 0.025 mm, that's tight
too loose, lose performance
too tight, maybe bend something
either way, might burn a valve
imo the 944 motor doesn't rev high enough to need them...
they need checked every 25k miles and a few usually need adjusted with shims...
pita, takes me ~4 hours
the tolerances are:
Intake spec ~ 0.18 to 0.23mm.
Exhaust spec ~ 0.28 to 0.33mm
+/- 0.025 mm, that's tight
too loose, lose performance
too tight, maybe bend something
either way, might burn a valve
imo the 944 motor doesn't rev high enough to need them...
08-20-2009, 11:53 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Ok I understand the needs for solid lifters. The point is so they dont colapse and cause engine damage under extreme rpms. I put 25 miles tops a week on my car so I am not real worried about maintance. ( I live 150 yard from work so I just walk ). I planned on going solid because factory lifters are so much higher for what they are it just seemed easier to put more in so I didnt just have to do it later. I would be willing to go factory if someone had a decect set for sale.
Also, I really apprecite you expecting me too fail. the reason I sound like an idiot when I ask a question is because most people give a better discription for the prodject ahead when they assume the person is nieve.
Also, I really apprecite you expecting me too fail. the reason I sound like an idiot when I ask a question is because most people give a better discription for the prodject ahead when they assume the person is nieve.
Solid lifters weigh about half as much as hydraulic lifters, so they have half the momentum when changing direction at high speeds.
Less valvetrain weight means the valves can open/close faster. Thats why there are titanium valve keepers, Stainless valves, billet rods and rockers.... also the reason for the overhead cam setup. You get to delete a bunch of parts, to save weight, when you put the cam up in the head instead of the block.
Arthur's M3 ^^ revs to 9,000rpm .... the 2.5 in the 944 revs to 6500 (stock). Big difference.
08-21-2009, 12:13 AM
#19
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Its not so much that they will collapse with high RPM (oil doesn't compress, so hydraulic lifters are "solid". They just let oil in and out to adjust their height). Its more about weight.
Solid lifters weigh about half as much as hydraulic lifters, so they have half the momentum when changing direction at high speeds.
Less valvetrain weight means the valves can open/close faster. Thats why there are titanium valve keepers, Stainless valves, billet rods and rockers.... also the reason for the overhead cam setup. You get to delete a bunch of parts, to save weight, when you put the cam up in the head instead of the block.
Arthur's M3 ^^ revs to 9,000rpm .... the 2.5 in the 944 revs to 6500 (stock). Big difference.
Solid lifters weigh about half as much as hydraulic lifters, so they have half the momentum when changing direction at high speeds.
Less valvetrain weight means the valves can open/close faster. Thats why there are titanium valve keepers, Stainless valves, billet rods and rockers.... also the reason for the overhead cam setup. You get to delete a bunch of parts, to save weight, when you put the cam up in the head instead of the block.
Arthur's M3 ^^ revs to 9,000rpm .... the 2.5 in the 944 revs to 6500 (stock). Big difference.
my RS4 goes to 8500! a V8 to boot...with hydraulic lifters ???
you hit the nail on the head...the valves may 'float' at higher rpms
08-21-2009, 12:29 AM
#22
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I wish 
it can probably take close to 9000, but not for long lol
Type: DOHC 24-valve inline 6-cylinder High-Pressure Double VANOS 4 steplessly variable intake- & exhaust- valve timing, 6 individual electronically controlled throttles with Normal & Sport settings
Engine Management System: BMW MS S54 with adaptive knock control; variable valve timing, electronic throttles, oil-level/temperature sender, variable tachometer warning zone, catalyst protection & M Driving Dynamics Control included in control strategy
Bore and Stroke (mm/in): 87.0 x 91.0 / 3.43 x 3.58
Displacement cu in (cc): 198 (3246)
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 333(245) / 7900
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 262(355) / 4900
Compression Ratio: 11.5 to 1
Redline at RPM: 8000
(I think it actually goes to 8200 or 8300)
it's really flexible...90% torque from 3000 or so to 8000 (redline)
it can probably take close to 9000, but not for long lol
Type: DOHC 24-valve inline 6-cylinder High-Pressure Double VANOS 4 steplessly variable intake- & exhaust- valve timing, 6 individual electronically controlled throttles with Normal & Sport settings
Engine Management System: BMW MS S54 with adaptive knock control; variable valve timing, electronic throttles, oil-level/temperature sender, variable tachometer warning zone, catalyst protection & M Driving Dynamics Control included in control strategy
Bore and Stroke (mm/in): 87.0 x 91.0 / 3.43 x 3.58
Displacement cu in (cc): 198 (3246)
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 333(245) / 7900
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 262(355) / 4900
Compression Ratio: 11.5 to 1
Redline at RPM: 8000
(I think it actually goes to 8200 or 8300)
it's really flexible...90% torque from 3000 or so to 8000 (redline)
08-21-2009, 09:54 AM
#24
Administrator - "Tyson"
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This post pretty much proves my point:
please explain more on the lash? I was under the idea that an over head cam like this didnt need valve adjustment. I was looking at a couple different sets and just figured I would get the lindsey cause everyone has good stuff to say about them. Why can I not just put them in as is and run them? What difference are they in height than factory because webb told me to use a new set of factory and it would be fine. I am kinda confused? I didnt realise it was that complicated...
Most of us are simply trying to prevent you from failing.
08-21-2009, 11:05 AM
#26
And you dont sound like an idiot when you ask questions
LOL
08-21-2009, 12:41 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
Occasionally 1 will fail and collapse - but for the most part lifters are pretty trouble free. There are a lot of high-mileage high-output cars around here running the original lifters.
08-21-2009, 01:08 PM
#28
Drifting
A lot of people think if you install a new cam (which the OP is doing), you need to install new lifters as well.
I'm not sure how valid that is but maybe that's why he wanted solid ones?
I'm not sure how valid that is but maybe that's why he wanted solid ones?
08-21-2009, 02:07 PM
#29
Nordschleife Master
Short answer.
The "book" says that you need to replace lifters when you replace the cam, and if you use a used cam, then you need that cams lifters, in the right order, as well.
The lifters and cam rub eachother. They're a friction fit and wear together. If you replace the cam, then you have a different wear pattern, and that wear pattern (how ever slight it may be) will eventually grind the cam flat.
But, like I said, that's just what "the book" says.... as with everything else, YMMV
The "book" says that you need to replace lifters when you replace the cam, and if you use a used cam, then you need that cams lifters, in the right order, as well.
The lifters and cam rub eachother. They're a friction fit and wear together. If you replace the cam, then you have a different wear pattern, and that wear pattern (how ever slight it may be) will eventually grind the cam flat.
But, like I said, that's just what "the book" says.... as with everything else, YMMV
