Illiteracy in America
08-08-2002, 04:59 PM
#91
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[quote] And it's been how long since you've last used spell check?
<hr></blockquote>
About 30 Seconds ago.
I feel terrible.
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
<hr></blockquote>
About 30 Seconds ago.
I feel terrible.
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
08-08-2002, 05:31 PM
#92
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Excellent replies....!!
I asked this question because I am a TV advocate (most likely the only one out there - lol). I have read one (yes, that's right....one) book my whole life. It was Death Of A Salesman and I only read it because the Coles Notes were sold out. Other than Archie Comics - that's about the only exposure I have had to printed "entertainment".
I often find myself at parties and such having conversations with "well-read" people. I just find they can only really comment on the actual books they have read and if they only read one type of book - they are out of the conversation as soon as the topic switches from said book or type of book.
Many people ask me what books I read and when I say, "none" they are taken back. All my info comes via the tube. The key to looking smart and well informed is to NEVER say, "I saw that on TV last night". Although I do get all my conversation material from life AND the TV, people think I'm well read.
I did recently start reading the Encyclopedia. I figure if I'm going to read something - it must be 100% "learning material". No filler for me. I really do find it an "interesting read". I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of sitting down and reading a book "for the story". Isn't that what TV is for?? I mean, when you read a book - you make visual images in your head about what you're reading, correct? That is what TV does for you - it eliminates the the process of having to "picture" things in your head. As I'm typing this - I can see how TV can kill imagination......I never thought of it that way....hummmmmmmm....
I guess I take the "good" from TV because of how I view it. I don't watch stuff like Jerry Springer or MTV. I like well-written shows like The Simpson, Seinfeld, etc. I also likED shows like Survivor because of the interpersonal dynamics - but they have poorly "microcosmed" society and it's now repetative.
I watch about 4-5 hours of TV per day - but only stuff I tape. I don't watch commercials (thanks to RCA for developing "commercial skip"). I never watch anything "live" - I usually tape what I want and watch sports while it's taping.
I have to cut back!!
944S Boyeee
I asked this question because I am a TV advocate (most likely the only one out there - lol). I have read one (yes, that's right....one) book my whole life. It was Death Of A Salesman and I only read it because the Coles Notes were sold out. Other than Archie Comics - that's about the only exposure I have had to printed "entertainment".
I often find myself at parties and such having conversations with "well-read" people. I just find they can only really comment on the actual books they have read and if they only read one type of book - they are out of the conversation as soon as the topic switches from said book or type of book.
Many people ask me what books I read and when I say, "none" they are taken back. All my info comes via the tube. The key to looking smart and well informed is to NEVER say, "I saw that on TV last night". Although I do get all my conversation material from life AND the TV, people think I'm well read.
I did recently start reading the Encyclopedia. I figure if I'm going to read something - it must be 100% "learning material". No filler for me. I really do find it an "interesting read". I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of sitting down and reading a book "for the story". Isn't that what TV is for?? I mean, when you read a book - you make visual images in your head about what you're reading, correct? That is what TV does for you - it eliminates the the process of having to "picture" things in your head. As I'm typing this - I can see how TV can kill imagination......I never thought of it that way....hummmmmmmm....
I guess I take the "good" from TV because of how I view it. I don't watch stuff like Jerry Springer or MTV. I like well-written shows like The Simpson, Seinfeld, etc. I also likED shows like Survivor because of the interpersonal dynamics - but they have poorly "microcosmed" society and it's now repetative.
I watch about 4-5 hours of TV per day - but only stuff I tape. I don't watch commercials (thanks to RCA for developing "commercial skip"). I never watch anything "live" - I usually tape what I want and watch sports while it's taping.
I have to cut back!!
944S Boyeee
08-08-2002, 05:37 PM
#93
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OK.... more of what passes for thoughts in what I jokingly call my brain these days..
a) Reading improves your writing. No matter how much the authors butcher the language or how poorly the editors edit, the written word exposes you to new vocabulary, proper sentence structure, and correct spelling. So reading is better for your writing than TV.
b) Some 'good' TV ain't all that great... the History Channel is notorious for inaccuracy, sensationalism, and over-simplification. Still better than network pablum, granted, but not great.
c) Holly-f*&kin'-wood can't handle the truth. Look at "Pearl Harbor".. a major event in the history of the US, with enough interest & adventure to fill a dozen movies. They twist it and butcher it. Same with "U-571" or whatever the number was... So ignorant people go see a 'historic' movie, get mis-educated, and think they've seen "what really happened." Yeah, I know they're movies, but when they pretend to portray actual historic events, they owe the public at least an effort at accuracy, or a _HUGE_ disclaimer stating that this is what might have happened in an alternate universe.
Jim, <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
a) Reading improves your writing. No matter how much the authors butcher the language or how poorly the editors edit, the written word exposes you to new vocabulary, proper sentence structure, and correct spelling. So reading is better for your writing than TV.
b) Some 'good' TV ain't all that great... the History Channel is notorious for inaccuracy, sensationalism, and over-simplification. Still better than network pablum, granted, but not great.
c) Holly-f*&kin'-wood can't handle the truth. Look at "Pearl Harbor".. a major event in the history of the US, with enough interest & adventure to fill a dozen movies. They twist it and butcher it. Same with "U-571" or whatever the number was... So ignorant people go see a 'historic' movie, get mis-educated, and think they've seen "what really happened." Yeah, I know they're movies, but when they pretend to portray actual historic events, they owe the public at least an effort at accuracy, or a _HUGE_ disclaimer stating that this is what might have happened in an alternate universe.
Jim, <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" /> <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
08-08-2002, 05:40 PM
#94
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I actually like where this conversation has taken us...
Good to have some handle on the philosophical differences amongst us. All of this feeds the community, in my opinion.
Without responding directly, I must say that I am taken aback by the thought that television is somehow responsible for any decline in the overall inclination of the population to become educated. My use of that medium is primarily for entertainment. Sure, I watch the educational programming on some such channels mentioned, but I equally enjoy the act put on by some well-produced show - no matter the content, really. Friends is fun, and a bit representative of pop culture - The West Wing is like a mini-movie each and every episode, likened to ER and some other very interesting and entertaining shows from the past, my past. Sure, the accuracy, realism and details are a bit far-fetched at times, but so is real life to an extent. Who would've thought small children would be stolen, raped and murdered by deplorable beings with no respect, or even knowledge of humanity - a gross example to illustrate that real life sometimes teaches the most hideous lessons. Responsibility, value, and domestication and learned traits - the more information I have to store in my moral warehouse, the better. Decisions to do the right thing, from committing illegal acts to ensuring proper punctuation, all come from that one place. And, my ability to interact with others comes from my willingness to see life for what it is worth, to me. If I could liken this whole conversation about how folks choose to write, or read, it would be my appreciation for art. Another’s art may mean nothing to me, as I have not seen it through their eyes, just as my art may mean nothing to them, unless they see it through my eyes. Writing is a form of art, and should be most admired and appreciated by its author, and editor
Those who choose not to take pride or make reverence to their writing, may have a much more devoted interest in art of another form - or not.
ME
Good to have some handle on the philosophical differences amongst us. All of this feeds the community, in my opinion.
Without responding directly, I must say that I am taken aback by the thought that television is somehow responsible for any decline in the overall inclination of the population to become educated. My use of that medium is primarily for entertainment. Sure, I watch the educational programming on some such channels mentioned, but I equally enjoy the act put on by some well-produced show - no matter the content, really. Friends is fun, and a bit representative of pop culture - The West Wing is like a mini-movie each and every episode, likened to ER and some other very interesting and entertaining shows from the past, my past. Sure, the accuracy, realism and details are a bit far-fetched at times, but so is real life to an extent. Who would've thought small children would be stolen, raped and murdered by deplorable beings with no respect, or even knowledge of humanity - a gross example to illustrate that real life sometimes teaches the most hideous lessons. Responsibility, value, and domestication and learned traits - the more information I have to store in my moral warehouse, the better. Decisions to do the right thing, from committing illegal acts to ensuring proper punctuation, all come from that one place. And, my ability to interact with others comes from my willingness to see life for what it is worth, to me. If I could liken this whole conversation about how folks choose to write, or read, it would be my appreciation for art. Another’s art may mean nothing to me, as I have not seen it through their eyes, just as my art may mean nothing to them, unless they see it through my eyes. Writing is a form of art, and should be most admired and appreciated by its author, and editor
Those who choose not to take pride or make reverence to their writing, may have a much more devoted interest in art of another form - or not. ME
08-08-2002, 05:54 PM
#95
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by 944S Boyeee:
<strong>I have read one (yes, that's right....one) book my whole life. It was Death Of A Salesman and I only read it because the Coles Notes were sold out. Other than Archie Comics - that's about the only exposure I have had to printed "entertainment".</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh my, are you missing out. I will admit that I personally find it takes some effort to begin reading, but once I start reading, I usually will read a bunch of books in a row and then not read for a while. For me books become all consuming once I'm into them. I've been known to stay up reading until 4 am when I have to get up for work at 6 am.
[quote]Originally posted by 944S Boyeee:
<strong>I did recently start reading the Encyclopedia. I figure if I'm going to read something - it must be 100% "learning material". No filler for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
While I think reading the encyclopedia to be a worth endeavor, don't get into the idea that all you need in life is "the facts." I'm a facts person too, but there is so much more that is interesting in life outside "the facts." "Facts" are often just answers to a trivia question. They are memorization more than real knowledge. Learn how to figure things out. But, I digress.....
[quote]Originally posted by 944S Boyeee:
<strong>As I'm typing this - I can see how TV can kill imagination......I never thought of it that way....hummmmmmmm....</strong><hr></blockquote>
See, you're learning already.
Ponder this for a while......
You could be the greatest engineer (or whatever) in the world......
But if you don't have the imagination to apply the "facts" or "cold knowledge" or whatever you want to call it, you won't create anything. Einstein called the imagination the preview of what is to come.
<strong>I have read one (yes, that's right....one) book my whole life. It was Death Of A Salesman and I only read it because the Coles Notes were sold out. Other than Archie Comics - that's about the only exposure I have had to printed "entertainment".</strong><hr></blockquote>
Oh my, are you missing out. I will admit that I personally find it takes some effort to begin reading, but once I start reading, I usually will read a bunch of books in a row and then not read for a while. For me books become all consuming once I'm into them. I've been known to stay up reading until 4 am when I have to get up for work at 6 am.
[quote]Originally posted by 944S Boyeee:
<strong>I did recently start reading the Encyclopedia. I figure if I'm going to read something - it must be 100% "learning material". No filler for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
While I think reading the encyclopedia to be a worth endeavor, don't get into the idea that all you need in life is "the facts." I'm a facts person too, but there is so much more that is interesting in life outside "the facts." "Facts" are often just answers to a trivia question. They are memorization more than real knowledge. Learn how to figure things out. But, I digress.....
[quote]Originally posted by 944S Boyeee:
<strong>As I'm typing this - I can see how TV can kill imagination......I never thought of it that way....hummmmmmmm....</strong><hr></blockquote>
See, you're learning already.
Ponder this for a while......
You could be the greatest engineer (or whatever) in the world......
But if you don't have the imagination to apply the "facts" or "cold knowledge" or whatever you want to call it, you won't create anything. Einstein called the imagination the preview of what is to come.
08-08-2002, 05:56 PM
#96
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by jim968:
<strong>a) Reading improves your writing. No matter how much the authors butcher the language or how poorly the editors edit, the written word exposes you to new vocabulary, proper sentence structure, and correct spelling. So reading is better for your writing than TV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen brother Jim. You said it better and more succinctly than I did.
What books do you read?
[quote]Originally posted by jim968:
<strong>b) Some 'good' TV ain't all that great... the History Channel is notorious for inaccuracy, sensationalism, and over-simplification.
<snip>
c) Holly-f*&kin'-wood can't handle the truth.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep! I love The History Channel, but I've caught them in really bad blunders and lazy journalism (a major pet peeve of mine) before.
<strong>a) Reading improves your writing. No matter how much the authors butcher the language or how poorly the editors edit, the written word exposes you to new vocabulary, proper sentence structure, and correct spelling. So reading is better for your writing than TV.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen brother Jim. You said it better and more succinctly than I did.
What books do you read?
[quote]Originally posted by jim968:
<strong>b) Some 'good' TV ain't all that great... the History Channel is notorious for inaccuracy, sensationalism, and over-simplification.
<snip>
c) Holly-f*&kin'-wood can't handle the truth.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yep! I love The History Channel, but I've caught them in really bad blunders and lazy journalism (a major pet peeve of mine) before.
08-08-2002, 06:00 PM
#97
George wrote:
[quote] Oh, too true. But, I think you would agree that you are 100x more likely to encounter proper use of the language in a book than on the bloody telly. <hr></blockquote>
I agree 100%.
Jim968,
Regarding point A, I think most of us agree about that and have stated such.
Regarding point B, yeah kind of disappointing isn't it. Though I must say I really like programs like POV, The News Hour and Charlie Rose on PBS. Charlie also used to be on a show called News Watch really late at night on CBS back in the late 80's. That show was wonderful, too bad it went off the air.
Regarding point C, I find it absolutely appalling that even politicians treat the line from the end of "Tora, Tora, Tora" (I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.) as an historically accurate quote when in fact it was created as part of the script of that movie.
944 Boyeee wrote:
[quote] when you read a book - you make visual images in your head about what you're reading, correct? That is what TV does for you - it eliminates the the process of having to "picture" things in your head <hr></blockquote>
Thank G-d you caught the folly of that statement on your own.
[quote] Oh, too true. But, I think you would agree that you are 100x more likely to encounter proper use of the language in a book than on the bloody telly. <hr></blockquote>
I agree 100%.
Jim968,
Regarding point A, I think most of us agree about that and have stated such.
Regarding point B, yeah kind of disappointing isn't it. Though I must say I really like programs like POV, The News Hour and Charlie Rose on PBS. Charlie also used to be on a show called News Watch really late at night on CBS back in the late 80's. That show was wonderful, too bad it went off the air.
Regarding point C, I find it absolutely appalling that even politicians treat the line from the end of "Tora, Tora, Tora" (I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.) as an historically accurate quote when in fact it was created as part of the script of that movie.
944 Boyeee wrote:
[quote] when you read a book - you make visual images in your head about what you're reading, correct? That is what TV does for you - it eliminates the the process of having to "picture" things in your head <hr></blockquote>
Thank G-d you caught the folly of that statement on your own.
08-08-2002, 06:21 PM
#98
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Hollywood has just got such a liberal P.C. agenda that I rarely go to a movie. Read Blackhawk Down and watch the movie, same with the last Clancy movie. Hollywood didn't want to offend Arabs. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> I have to say that some of my favorite movies could not be made today. Could you see a remake of Blazing Saddles? Hell even the old John Wayne movies would offend "Native Americans" (I was born here too) <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />
Between the liberal conspiracy theories (Nixon) revisionist history and just plain whack jobs making movies and TV ( The Anna Nicole Smith Show???) it has become difficult at least for me to find something entertaing and intelligent to watch.
Actually Renn List (and that damn car) has filled a lot of my previously spare TV time. I do some taping, CSI, Jag, The Shield and a couple others but mostly to occupy me when I'm too tired for other things and to take in the truck with me to kill time.
But I must confess I do enjoy South Park.
Between the liberal conspiracy theories (Nixon) revisionist history and just plain whack jobs making movies and TV ( The Anna Nicole Smith Show???) it has become difficult at least for me to find something entertaing and intelligent to watch.
Actually Renn List (and that damn car) has filled a lot of my previously spare TV time. I do some taping, CSI, Jag, The Shield and a couple others but mostly to occupy me when I'm too tired for other things and to take in the truck with me to kill time.
But I must confess I do enjoy South Park.
08-08-2002, 06:36 PM
#99
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The comment about writing being an artform and people seeing art differently is spot on!!
When I'm done with a post here - I go over it....change it.....go over it again.....change it, etc, etc - like someone would when molding a clay statue.
I have lot o' art in me - I can feel it - but even at the age of 32, I'm yet to find the medium that will release it. I thought perhaps stand-up comedy (I know - not very "artsy" - but I love to make people laugh and it's someting I KNOW I'm good at). I can't sing. I can't draw.....but I feel like singing and drawing. What is that all about???
As for imagination - they say the Mian (sp?) culture reached "a higher level" where they could communicate without words, instead using thoughts. I believe the development of imagination is totally needed to reach this point. Imagination is like taking your brain to the gym. I hope to reach this level before I die.
Wouldn't it be amazing if you could look at someone and know what they are thinking??? Hold on - many of us can already do that. This whole "higher level" thing would eliminate lying, stealing, cheating, etc, etc. I wonder....would this create peace or chaos??? I'd ask the Mians (again, sp??) - but they have already gone back to their own planet.......
As you can see - I'm a big believer that the human race is someone else's experiment....be it God, Aliens or whomever. Someone is watching us.......
944S Boyeee
When I'm done with a post here - I go over it....change it.....go over it again.....change it, etc, etc - like someone would when molding a clay statue.
I have lot o' art in me - I can feel it - but even at the age of 32, I'm yet to find the medium that will release it. I thought perhaps stand-up comedy (I know - not very "artsy" - but I love to make people laugh and it's someting I KNOW I'm good at). I can't sing. I can't draw.....but I feel like singing and drawing. What is that all about???
As for imagination - they say the Mian (sp?) culture reached "a higher level" where they could communicate without words, instead using thoughts. I believe the development of imagination is totally needed to reach this point. Imagination is like taking your brain to the gym. I hope to reach this level before I die.
Wouldn't it be amazing if you could look at someone and know what they are thinking??? Hold on - many of us can already do that. This whole "higher level" thing would eliminate lying, stealing, cheating, etc, etc. I wonder....would this create peace or chaos??? I'd ask the Mians (again, sp??) - but they have already gone back to their own planet.......
As you can see - I'm a big believer that the human race is someone else's experiment....be it God, Aliens or whomever. Someone is watching us.......
944S Boyeee
08-08-2002, 06:40 PM
#100
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I get in trouble when I read because once I have started a book I do not do anything until I finish it.
Reading is good
TV is good
I think it is like anything else.
Just because you read books doesn't mean that you are smart. And just because you watch TV doesn't mean that you are dumb.
Reading is good
TV is good
I think it is like anything else.
Just because you read books doesn't mean that you are smart. And just because you watch TV doesn't mean that you are dumb.
08-10-2002, 03:39 PM
#101
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Hmm, I posted. What seems like a million years ago. I said I would do better at spelling and grammer. So as not to offend the grammarians. I pose this question now to all that have traveled this far down the chain.. The supposed readers of classics.. Grammarians always claim to know all. I have asked this many times on many threads and in many forums.... WHO is billybones? I have yet to be answered correctly..
08-10-2002, 11:23 PM
#102
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[quote]Originally posted by billybones:
<strong>WHO is billybones? </strong><hr></blockquote>
A character from the book Treasure Island
What'd I win?
ME
<strong>WHO is billybones? </strong><hr></blockquote>
A character from the book Treasure Island
What'd I win?
ME
