Scootin159

FWIW, maintenance doesn't need to be expensive in a 944. I've spent an average of ~$1000/year maintaining my 944 - of which ~$600/year is spent on race tires and ~$200/year is spent on race brake pads. Occasionally I'll hit a "bad" year where I need to spend an extra $500-1000 on the car with something like a timing belt change (or worse), but you'll get that with any car.

Anyone who knows me will vouch that my car isn't "driven easy" either. Of the ~5000 miles a year I put on the car, only about 500 miles of that is not either to or from a track event (at which point I'm towing a trailer with it) or put on at the track event.

CurtP

Maybe after all the maintenance has been brought up to snuff, but for the first year, I don't see it being a cheap proposition. Even a well documented car will need some maintenance, and at a minimum I'd do fuel hoses, belts, rollers and front seals regardless of the condition of the car.

There's no such thing as a cheap Porsche no matter how you slice it. You'll end up spending $10k+ on a 944 or $15k+ on a turbo either up front for a well sorted (and minimal maintenance) car or for one that needs more attention (and considerably more maintenance).

After that maintenance costs should be minimal barring any catastrophic events. Personally I don't think these are good cars for a teenager.

Operator

what everyone says is true about old airbags being either pointless and/or useless

but if you must have a <$6k 944 with airbags get a 944S

Jfrahm

Airbag systems are quite robust, I do not see why they would degrade. If the wiring is damaged you get a fault light. Ignitors and propellant should last for 50 years or more. Unless the car has been pre-crashed the airbags should work fine. I'm not crazy about the old-style high power airbags but they'd be better than just a seatbelt if some cell fone yapping SUV pilot overcorrects into the oncoming lane and knocks me into a tree.

-Joel.

DarylJ

...and yet I regularly come across vehicles that had partial or no airbag deployment after major accidents (which is has to be if I'm getting called in). Especially anything 10 years or older. So how do you figure that?

Jfrahm

No idea. There could be any number of reasons including disabled airbag systems, previous crashes, aftermartket replacement airbags... whatever I do not see the point. If the failure mode you are seeing is partial deployment or no deployment that does not mean it's better not to have them. Some of them will still work, more so in decently maintained cars with no significant accident history.

If what you are saying is that some 944 airbag systems might not work so 944 airbag systems are therefore not valuable or desireable, I reject that.

If nothing else they can lower your insurance premiums.
-Joel.

DarylJ

I said nothing of the kind. What I am trying to say is that:

is the kind of thing I'd expect to hear from some auto company that doesn't want to get sued.

The simple fact of the matter is that airbag systems are NOT all that robust. No more so than most other automotive systems. If the wiring is damaged IN THE RIGHT WAY you get a fault light. There are plenty of failure modes that show no indication to the driver. This is not news; firefighters and paramedics consider it a given, and I have personally observed it more times than I can count over the course of the last 15 years.

I have to pull people out of cars that SHOULD have deployed (or only partially deployed) enough times that I actually have a kevlar bag that I can toss over the steering wheel and tie off to try to minimize my (or my patient) getting hit in the face with an airbag after the fact while I'm getting them out.

I can't wait until the cars with all of the side curtain bags and seat-deployed bags start screwing up and not fully deploying. There's simply no way to secure all of them, save disconnecting the battery for however long the ERG says should de energize them (which usually isn't an option time-wise - its often about 10 or 15 minutes, sometimes more).

And when this happens, unless someone gets killed and there is a law suit, nothing ever really happens. Except for one time in my experience - a 3 year old Saab. Saab actually called the fire department to find out if we had any more pictures or information and interviewed me over the phone. There was no law suit, but the dealer had been called to remove the car after the wreck and somebody there called corporate and they actually wanted to get to the bottom of what happened. I was very surprised.

alex

Am I the only one thinking he should buy the car he wants and just throw an airbag steering wheel on it and call it a day?

alex

Then wait a few months til he's 18 and put a nice Momo in there.

Van

Buy the 944 - ditch the air bag idea.

Spend the money that you'd spend on trying to do some kind of air bag conversion and spend that on defensive driving classes or track training.

Explain to your parent what you want and why - and what you'll do to allay their concerns. (Maybe do some extra chores or something, too...)

Rock

The airbag info either in the manual, or hell I think its on the glovebox says the airbag should be serviced and checked for proper operation only at an authorized porsche dealership at a 10 year interval, then every 5 years after that.

Jfrahm

Mine actually says the airbag system is to be inspected at 4 years and 8 years, and then every two years. I do not think this is relevant to the quality of the system however. Sounds like a legal 'out' for the manufacturer if the system does not protect you after X years, they can claim you did not have it inspected so how can they be liable for it not working correctly? I doubt anyone actually has it checked beyond hooking it up to a diagnostic tool.

I still do not see the point... OK airbags do not work 100% of the time, OK they sometimes present some danger after a crash. Are you trying to downplay the effectiveness such that having or not having airbags should not be a consideration at the time of purchase?

I think they are better to have than to not have, given the option.
-Joel.

Strelok

Exactly. This is the consensus I seem to get from folks who are very experienced with 944's. They have the potential to be an unbelievable money pit, but that won't happen provided they are well kept and you're not stupid and get all the maintenance done properly and on time. Thankfully I do know a few folks who have experience with working on Porsches, and considering what a raging Porsche-phile I am, I know I would absolutely never neglect to perform important maintenance. The biggest issue is finding a 944 that doesn't need to be overhauled.

The funny thing is, I agree haha. Most teens don't realize the maintenance required to keep these cars running. It's just a chick magnet to them... However not all teens are created equal... I'm pretty sick of people ASSUMING I'm irresponsible just because of my age...

So I'm sort of at a loss over this whole airbag thing... I like the idea of taking an advanced driving course. I think my dad would be all for that, but my mom is super stubborn. She'll most likely tell me "No airbag, no car."

yellowline

I would agree with this. The airbag system is pyrotechnic, and I would argue that the materials, including the airbag, may degrade to the point that they're of no use.

It's well known within the E36 community that the side impact airbags installed on 97 and 98 cars don't always go off. You could attribute this to a rudimentary system (computer isn't good enough to properly sense many kinds of side impacts), or the aging materials. So what you're left with is a pain in the neck that will detonate on you if you're not careful when removing it to service the window regulators. And it *might* be useful if someone T-bones you pretty perfectly.

Let's be honest. Aside from handling, brakes, and the transaxle concept, the 944 is not really well known for having well thought out anything. I'm not saying that like it's a bad car. The 1977 924 engineers didn't envision the car eventually being fitted with 4-piston brakes, a turbo, vacuum climate control, ABS, airbags, electric seats, locks, a convertible model, etc. Welcome to Porsche- I don't think Butzi Porsche envisioned a 930 when he came out with a 2 liter 911 in 1964. Anyway, I don't think any 198x airbag system is going to be terribly advanced, and I wouldn't trust a 20 year old system to work.

To the OP: Show your parents the general consensus by car manufacturers about the useful life of airbags, and illustrate that most of the decent cars you can afford will be plagued by this issue. The 944 is a very dense, well built car (general metalwork and steel thickness is better than any 3-series IMO), and takes crashes very well, assuming that the other vehicle isn't a lifted pickup.

What can you do in terms of your own service work? If you can do most anything but windshield replacements and transmission overhauls, plan on $1000 a year. That includes wear items that you'll pay for with any car.

In terms of insurance cost, my brother's 89 S2 with ABS and dual airbags was about equal to my 83: +/- $20 annually. I have had one at-fault accident, and he is clean.

CurtP

Actually, I wasn't making the assumption that teenagers are irresponsible. My thought is that there's a lot going on in a teenager's life - usually a job, friends, a bunch of socializing and a girlfriend or 6. Throw into a mix inexperienced driving, high amount of maintenance, the costs associated and being broke down on the side of the road more often than you'd like on your way to work (or fleeing for your life from an angry father over what you were doing with his daughter). IMO, now is not the time to be weighed down by a high maintenance vehicle. Do that after you're done with school and have settled into a career. It isn't a good primary source of transportation.

If I was looking for something cheap and reliable, I'd be looking at an Asian car. For something German, VW or BMW (at least the parts will be cheaper). I'd love to have a BMW 318ti Sport...