ryans

how is it coming along?

TaylorSea4

I tend to agree with Olli on this. Being at hot-rodder by heart (and redneck by birth), I LOVE what you're doing. Like Sinatra said, do it your way. Andy's car is WAY cool; he did it HIS way.

By there are simple LAWS of hot-rodding that should always be adhered to. Suspension & brakes, more power, interior, exterior. Yes, your car will stop and stop fine. Yes 951 owners upgrade brakes; although in my opinion unless it's a serious track car Big Reds seem like misappropriation of funds when M030 Blacks will do fine (for less).

Granted, I dropped a hot motor into my Camaro before I did the upgrade to Trans Am sways, rear discs, and beefy shocks. When I do it over again on a 944 someday soon, I'll do it properly. I don't believe more power facilitates harnasses and cages, but it DOES neccessitate an relative upgrade in the hard parts underneath. In the proper hands, those upgrades can be equivalent to 10-15 more hp. Just my $.02, dude. Good luck, keep us updated.

ps- Callaway Turbo's didn't upgrade the tranny. Someone just sold one a week ago or so (on the board, do a search) and said he NEVER had probs with the drivertrain. His post had some cool pics, too.

Mike C.

Good luck Savage944. It sounds like a fun project.

David Ray

I'd have to rank this as one of the best "conversion posts" yet! You scorch the turbo guys and the foofoo NA guys. Conversion don't require brain surgery! And get this the car still handles the same without the brakes, sway bars, shocks , etc., again shock it up to German over engineering a great car.

This should provide valuable info to those out there that like their current 944 NA and want alittle more power. After all, it's not like we push the accelerator to the floor in a turn, it's the straight away speed!

Great Post!

ERAU-944

so did anyone figure out if ALL the early rods were forged or just '83?

-Michael-

iloveporsches

From everything I've ever read, it's just 83's (and probably 82's in Europe), and 86 Turbos.

savage944

For those of you who asked and messaged me, I put this on hold. I been working, working, working, working, and collecting parts---> I now have enough turbos to turbocharge every porsche I own and then some.

I am focusing my time when their is time on the fixed light conversion. I also have a SC project that I want to do. Lots of ideas, so little time.

As for the turbo conversion, If I had the time I could complete it in a weekend, but would need to find a weekend when I am not working or spending time with the kids!!<-- best way to spend time, especially I only get sundays as weekends go. All day with the kids, Heaven!!

Ok back to the project. I have a custom header (150.00) that would mount the turbo forward of the engine in the area where the headlight motor goes!

Intercooler is a Turbocoupe (ford) unit I have fabricated brackets mounts for a top mount and still facilitate a strut bar, though I am thinking I may move the intake to the driver side near the factory air box. (15.00 -flow/pressure tested - junkyard and a friend checked it) Not the best but cheap for a start. Looks a lot like the 924 Carrera Gt unit.

Plumbing for intercooler and intake is via junkyard salvage tubes and elbows(10.00 so far)

I have the larger injectors and fuel pump(used free)setup I need. I also have extra injectors and the wiring, so that I can install extra injectors in the intake line like the Callaway. (100.00 total for - 8 injectors slightly used)

I haven't gotten the Additional Injector Controller(AIC) yet, but it will not be that costly.(250.00 the ones I checked --up to 700.00)

Need a good air/fuel meter for use with the AIC($??)

I have the oil lines and fittings for the turbo to oil pan, etc (free-junkyard)

I have acess to a MSD 6BTM controller for the timing retard (300.00).

Turbo --T-4-- Free had it laying around got it in trade (maybe 50.00 invested) Solid unit, no issues, no need for rebuild. Also have the waste gate... again free came with turbo.

BOV --- not yet.... but easy enough to get, will look for a good junk yard one or have a friend who does JDM parts in australia--- can get one for shipping.


Header 150.00
Intercooler 15.00
Intake tubes 10.00
Injectors 100.00
Fuel Pump 0.00 Free used
Injector control 400.00(hoping for 300.00)
MSD 6 BTM 300.00 if I buy it.
Air/Fuel Meter ???.??
T-4 Turbo 0.00 Free -- had it laying around
Wastegate 0.00 Free as above
BOV ???.??
MAF/MAP Conversion???.??
Total so far 975.00


I have seen the turbo and wastegates go for under 500.00 so just a matter of junkyard or ebay and getting a good unit you don't have to rebuild.

Ok so thats about it. I may get a rebuilt head. But mostly everything except electronics is supper easy to get, I love junk yards!!

I wouldn't run more than 5-6 PSI till I get everything setup right. Then maybe up to 8. The engine has 96k on it, so not going to go crazy. I do want to use a 83 block and head and rebuild it for a higher compression setup. But basically I will stick with he 5-6 PSI and have fun on my car.

The things I don't have listed would be, changing out the Head gasket, using a rebuilt head, etc... but thats when I get serious... for now I would be content with 5-6 psi max boost. Not sure If I am comfortable with more as it is 5-6 will shorten the life of the engine. But not as much as more would.

Ok now question is will I actually install this, or will I stick with the Supercharger setup I recently listed. I can't decide... maybe, maybe not... even if I have the time... I think I might to prove it can be done, and cheap.

I like the Supercharger option better for low boost setups and especially have a clutch activated pulley, so I could drive around as normal and only have the added fuel and boost come on at WOT or at the push of a button... cant do that with a turbo. Maybe I will do this also...

hemm going to need another 944 NA for testing the SC if I do the turbo on my 84.

BTW: finding a lot of the stuff is easy, especially junkyards and trades... turbos can be had for cheap in a junkyard, especially you pull it and you grab everything you can... or ebay.

I will try and list links to a lot of site on junkyard based turbo build ups for all manner of cars. I think except for the electronics or if I can source a cheaper setup... the whole thing could in theory be done for under a grand.

Especially if I can get the AIC under 300.00 then the header could be done by any good welder for less than 200.00 especially if you did it yourself. I paid for mine to be done up, but I really think it would be easier and cheaper for the DIY setup if you could weld it up or have someone weld it up.

MAF/MAP remains an issue/expense I am not sure about... perhaps GURU...

Ok so thats where I am at.

I suppose A kit could be put together... like the callaway or something and be sold without a turbo, so the buyer could source their own... or maybe offer some options, better to partner with a turbo outlet to offer new/used/rebuilt units... personally my idea of a kit is you get most of what you need to make it work.... then you get the turbo you want.

The header is an example of this... design it support various turbos... with a standard mounting flange... the buyer just mounts the turbo he/she sources... and plumbs the oil line... or if need be you cut the flange off and mount up the correct one for your turbo... especially if its a used turbo you get the wastegate and header with mounts from the same car... then cut the mount of the older header and have it welded to the kit header...

So who is going to put the kit together? A low budget project... need a sticker for that... "some assembly required, not all parts need are provided".... haha big disclamer... and put it some silly @ss box with retro advertisement... haha ok its late and I am rambling... I would like some feedback on this....

kinda5150

now that's the kind of money i'm talkin about. i'm very interested in the links you were referring to.

Dave951M

While you're bolting on GO FAST, don't forget that you also need STOP FAST

xsboost90

speaking of projects, hey savage, ever gonna bring up that hood and nose panel?

savage944

Dave951M -- I am long winded so guess I will go over this again


Going fast doesn't mean having to stop fast, it means if you have to stop suddenly, you want breaks that are capable of handling the job at the speed you are going at. So how does having a faster more powerful car equal having to stop fast???? IT DOESNT!! Unless you are "wreck"less... its a matter of how you use that power....

If I can get from zero to 60 quicker great, how quickly I have to stop, has nothing to do with how fast I got to 60, unless I was stupid enough to use the extra power and speed when I shouldn't! Otherwise, the need to stop is the same as if It took me an hour to get to 60 or a 100 or whatever... the need to stop is the need to stop....

To me the equation of Going FAST = Stoping FAST is about the same as: Someone deciding they know they are going to go as fast as possible every opportunity they can, so they want more and more power so I can drive faster and faster... oh yea and better improve the handling and braking to compensate for that excessive speed and careless/wanton disregard for safety??? --> makes sense, yep sure does---Not?

Going fast and stoping fast is related I agree, but its based on a lot of different circumstances, so the point or logic of that argument is biased at best.

You know if you read what I had to say about this before (I still stand by it), the only time you "have" to stop fast is when the situation you are in requires it. So avoid the situations, if you are driving within the design aspects of any car, you should be able to handle most situations, within reason. Porsche over engineers their cars, thats a lot of room to play in.

Still my point stands... how you arrived at going fast, isn't a factor when you are breaking or avoiding an accident. It may be after, but till then Breaking and avoiding the accident is whats important, so based on that, sure you should upgrade breaks and suspension if for no other reason than to be safer. But even 50% more power in a stock 944 NA isnt that much of an increase and I can not see the need to rush out and upgrade the Trans, suspension, brakes etc.....

If you have to stop fast or steer away from the accident (defensive driving manuevers) Then the condition and type of suspension/handling and breaking become issues---> Otherwise breaking is always relative to the circumstance in which you find yourself suddenly in. Remember drivers ed, or whatever... keep a safe distance, relative to speed, weight of car and speed of car is relative to distance required, based on reaction time of driver, etc....

Remember all this is fun for me, it's an exercise if you will in being creative and resourceful--->getting a little more power out of the car is not the same has having a insane amount of power and using it all the time.

To be honest, even if you have the best brakes and ideal road conditions, stoping is a matter more than the distance, weight of the car, size and type of brakes, it is also the condition of brakes, shoes, etc, type and size of tires, road conditions and speed of both objects--> physics, inertia, etc...

Having more power doesn't mean I will drive faster, it means I can get to the speed I want to be at faster. IF I use the power of the car when I shouldn't stock or otherwise, I might find myself wishing for better brakes and more distance or a lot of other things

I do want better breaks, because its safer, regardless of anything else.

Having more power that I can use is a good thing, how I use it or how you use it and when... well thats a different discussion... ask the guy racing in traffic.... if it had anything to do with having more power or his ego and competition or adrenalin, etc.

I will drive anything on wheels like I stole it and push its limits, but not in traffic, on a public road? -->maybe if no one else is around... for a few seconds or minutes, yea.

The highways and rural streets are not open tack day at Daytona or something---->So pushing the limits and speed of my car all the time and just because I have more power, doubtful!! I prefer the sleeper approach... its quiet and restful till roused...then you are in for a surprise.

So for anyone that argues you must upgarde brakes and suspension, I wonder what you are doing with the car, that every increase in power "requires" a increase in other areas?

Its not a purpose built race car... and I am not building a 951, I am building a modified 944.

Now some day if it is better than a 951 in all around performance, well whoopi!! Till then its my car, my rules, my way.

Another point: Callaway and BAE didn't do jack to the brakes, neither does any of the other companies who now offer turbo or SC kits on any car.

Do what you want, when you want and why you want, do you own thing.

And another point: --- One of the saddest way to waste the freedom of expression is when you have the freedom to do what ever you want, and you conform and imitate each other instead of being your own person, make your car your own.

Or restore it, whatever, but atleast find your own way of doing whatever you want... the destination is often the same, but the journey can be greater than the destination... so can working on your car.

Modify, improve, change, adapt, whatever you want when it comes to you car... Do the research, question authority and why you can't do something or should or shouldn't do something, then make an informed decision, hopefully the right decision, but mostly express yourself and enjoy yourself.

If you are going to do what everyone else is doing, then at least find a way to do it your way... thats me in a nut shell.... my way isn't the best way, but it is still my way...

Yea so this is more than my .02 cents, more like a buck fifty...

XS---Yea bud, I will be making a road trip around the 28th of this month or the 5th of March. If I can not make it this month I may have my brother go for me, either way will get the stuff up to you and nine44. Its a matter of getting the time off, its the same reason I haven't finished anything on my car in forever, time off is minimal. I got it all wrapped up in the garage ready to go, so no worries. I will give you both a heads up on when to expect me.

I serious want out of Miami and to finish moving! Damn 6 months trying to get moved.

savage944

I seriously need to get a grip on the length of my posts!!

mochman

Ever see the Porsche add of what it takes to make a turbo? Learn it live it love it. The 944 turbo conversions never felt as solid as a production 951 ever, unless there was so much work done to it that was really modified and approaching track car status.

savage944

Yea mochman I saw the photo, even have a large blow up of it where you can see everything and read it clearly, framed and all that... just as a reminder... right next to it is a interesting picture with a group of zebras...

I can agree that a turbo conversion will not feel the same as a production 951. IT IS however a nice way to improve performance.

I agree its lots of work to do everything to get the car to be a 951, but what I want is a modified 944.

I imagine I will upgrade the breaks and suspension and all that, even the trans someday or when it becomes a must, like I trash it.

I am not saying it shouldn't be done, I am saying I don't have to do it, just because thats what is the difference between a 951 and 944.

I will add a roll cage once I get around to it even, for the look and safety factor, I will in doing so, find a way to maintain a rear seat that is useable.

I will modify the suspension, I will modify the body, and so on and on...

I will never do it beacuse some one says thats what you have to do if you want it to perform like a 951, thats not the point of the project.

If I want a 951 I will buy a 951.

Besides I have four 931s that are more than adequate and I will proably focus on upgrading those to a 951 or better level, more like GT/GTS/GTR, when the time is right.

My 84 is more like a junkyard dog... I rebuilt her from a wreck, I am improving on her as I see fit and maybe she isn't a 951, be she isn't just a 944 either and I love that about her!
She is different ------> "Zebra Zero!"

More than a horse with stripes if you know what I mean, less than one, more than another.

I am one to certainly to follow a different path, I don't mind "thinkinng the same", I don't mind "outsourcing originality" or "borrowing inovation", it doesn't matter if the idea is mine or been tried, what I want is to do it my way, borrowing what works and building on that, learning from others, but carving my own path or atleast finding my own way to that final destination. The "IMPERFECTION" of my car!

So in one way I am imitating Calloway and BAE and so many others in the pursuit of more power and boost, I am trying to do it my way and in my own time. In another way, I am trying to find a way to do it better, cheaper and enjoy the search and struggle for that lofty goal.

To that end I will share this:

“When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other. - This glorious truth defines the essence of conformity, which is the very nature of almost the whole of humankind."

“Statistical evidence and plain common sense tell us that almost all of us are simply incapable of original ideas or actions. And yet paradoxically, our culture has so stigmatized conformity that we’ve produced millions who boldly conform to the most clichéd mold of all, the non-conformist.”

"Why, in this enlightened age, do so many continue this perpetual cycle of hypocrisy? Why do so many believe that they can, through the sheer force of their will, “Think different”? And why do these same people, you know of whom I speak, so viciously denigrate imitators?”

“It is true, my friends, that innovators live among us. That mankind has seen enormous advancement in the sciences and the arts tells us they must exist. These people do not derive their identity from how they are perceived, but rather, from their unwavering conviction that a better way of doing things must be found."

"But truth be told, though history may lionize them, the present almost always rewards the swiftest imitators. Progress, then, is achieved in the symbiosis that exists between the innovators and the imitators.”
-----Dr. E.L. Kersten

savage944

CONFORMITY

BTW: In the next post I hope to get back on topic... damn late night Friday... I seriously need to relax on this issue... then again I do love getting up on a soap box, just for laughs...

Only take half of what I say as serious, and the other half well take that with a grain of salt or lemon... and pucker up... its probably very sour... haha.

Hemmm wonder if I will get flammed for this?