I bought a '90 944 S2 Cab on Ebay about two weeks ago, discovered rennlist a week ago, and just now got the full estimate on getting the car in shape - my first taste of what it could cost to
own this thing - about $5K. Of course, some of this I knew about, and was reflected in the well-below-average price of $11K. I still think I got an OK (but I no longer think great) deal on the car. Car looks fine and drives Ok except as noted.

Ok, here goes - based on estimate from a reputable independent near me. I've decided to bite the bullet and do the lot. Prospective buyers
be warned - do your homework and have the car
looked at by a knowledgeable person (as I did NOT
do though I had it inspected by a regular mechanic at its seller's location - thats the danger of buying sight-unseen):

Total Cost of Fixing Mechanical Problems: $4400

Breakdown :

New Porsche Clutch-
Labor: $1125
Parts: $800
Total: $1925
Main disk is broken - I did not suspect this because all it does is causes some vibration, minor clanging noises while driving.
I'm told new replacement Porsche clutch uses springs in the middle instead of rubber-
hence more durable. Repair of existing clutch is not possible for much less than the price
of new clutch - hence not recommended, but car can be driven as tabs hold it in place
at the moment if I can live with the noise and underperformance. But - nah - its no fun without a proper transmission. I was kind of hoping it was something loose that could be fixed cheap.

Replace ball joints on front suspension:
Labor $225
Parts $450
Total: $675

Front right is shot, Front left is worn out. Why replace? I'm told failure when car is moving will cause collapse of front of car, with potentially dangerous consequences :-)

60K Mile Service: $1320
Labor: $750
Other Parts: $270
Plug Wiring/rotor: $300
Idling roller for Timing Belt is broken. Idling roller for balancing shaft belt is worn out and probably needs replacement also. Valve cover is leaking - requires new gaskets. Brake fluid has not been replaced in a long time - requires replacement. Ignition wiring is cracked, 12 years old, may have problems when weather is damp. Car is in general need of maintenance as most previous recent maintenance seems to have been superficial.

In addition, the car needs some cosmetics:

Dents: 2-3 areas with big dents,
Scratches/Paint chips requires complete buffing to remove scratches, paint chips, shampoo,
Appearance: needs detailing

Cost - estimated a few hundred $

Other:
---------

Radio: not functioning. cost of repair unknown but replacement is $160
NJ Inspection: $55

And that's it. Except for this list the car is like brand new - as far as I know...

Reactions? Are these types of expenses typical? Can I be reasonably assured that I won't need to spend another 4 grand in a year?!!

Thanks,

Arvind
Newbie (obviously)

 

Proving again that we do get what we pay for, with home work sometimes more, and regardless of homework sometimes less.

Good luck in getting everything worked out, we are always here to lend a helping hand, or words.

 

I agree 9 times out of 10 you do get what you pay for. Sorry this happened to you. I'm glad that the dealers do ppis. I think that is the only way to go because their reputations are attached. They did a pretty detailed ppi on mine.

 

Sounds like textbook 944 issues to me. I assume the 60k service includes a timing belt as well (since you mention the idler roller)? If not, GET the belt REPLACED. If it goes while the engine is running, your valves will kiss the pistons: ouch. You may want to do the water pump too, since they old ones tend to go to hell when put under tension by a new belt.

The only other thing that leaps to mind as a high-probability wear item is the steering rack, they tend to leak on these things, mine cost 800.00 plus 200 labor.

Good luck! Still sounds like a nice car and once that's stuff is done, you have a fair shot at having a reliable one too.

There may be some S2 specific things I'm not aware of (I drive a Turbo), but somebody else will fill in the gaps.

cheers

Thaddeus

 

yes - both timing and balance shaft belts are included - I was planning on leaving the water pump for later (75 K?) The car has 61K miles on it. Could that be a catastrophic decision?

Its not the end of the world - only of my pocketbook

Actually my budget had included $4k for fix-ups and I had hoped to use only $3K of it - still if it stops here I will be pretty happy. THe car is already v. nice - the engine is very strong and the car feels tight and well-built, the top is new and jthe interior in nice shape.

 

Clutch price sounds way high, around $1200 total is common for an S2.
Price for rebuilt control arms sounds pretty good.
60,000 mile service should include all belts, idlers, waterpump, etc. close to $500 in parts, before the plug wires, to do it right.
EDIT: Do the pump at the same time, the belts have to come off to get to it, so it's cheaper to do now and letting it go can be very expensive.

 

[quote]Originally posted by arvind:
<strong>yes - both timing and balance shaft belts are included - I was planning on leaving the water pump for later (75 K?) The car has 61K miles on it. Could that be a catastrophic decision?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Do the water pump also - and don't use a rebuilt one. Get a new one. The big expense is in the labor as the belts have to come off to replace the waterpump. It doesn't make sense to plan on only driving 14k before doing it all over again.

Might want to consider having the front seals done as well - as long as they're in there, they might as well do it all!

Other than that - welcome aboard! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

 

_Don't_ be driving it much (if at all) until the timing belt issue is resolved... this can easily lead to a sudden, no warning, catastrophic failure, costing $3-5K to fix on a 16V head...

The water pump is an iffy thing; unlikely to be castatrophic if it fails, but costing more than the timing belt to replace, since much of the same labor is duplicated... belts have to come off to R&R the pump. If it's the original pump, or you don't know, go ahead & replace it as part of the t-belt process.

Jim, thought you ought to know...

 

I would go for the pump change too. "60K service" could include random bits of labor that you probably don't need to pay for, "inspect headlights" etc. Tell them what you want done instead: belts, rollers, seals, etc, you can grease the door hinges yourself.

Jason

 

[quote]Originally posted by arvind:
<strong>60K Mile Service: $1320</strong><hr></blockquote>

Get the chain tensioner (or, at least the pads) replaced since the cam cover is coming off.

I agree the clutch estimate seems a bit high - from the list of items, I am assuming this from a Porsche specialist?

Congrats on the car!

 

Congrats on your new purchse, sorry to hear about the problems. Definetely go the extra step and take care of a few extra things mentioned previously.

I see you are from Livingston, during the semester I go to school in New Brunswick(Rutgers). You should check out the next PCA Auto cross at the Meadowlands. There is one this sunday, go to <a href="http://vista.pca.org/nnj/" target="_blank">http://vista.pca.org/nnj/</a> for more info. good luck!

 

Welcome. You have learned a powerful Porsche lesson already. They are expensive. Now for the maintenance:

I whole heartedly second...or uh, third the comments above. I may be a little **** but this is what I would have done.

-timing and balance shaft belt, rollers and all front seals
-NEW water pump
-get another estimate on the clutch job but have it done.
-the 60K service should probably cover plug wires, coil, dist. cap and rotor (if not you will have to do it at 75K anyway)
-I'd have the front wheel bearings inspected repacked (or replaced) and adjusted.
-definitely do the A-arms/ball joints
-4 wheel alignment from a reputable shop.
-you may want to go ahead and do the cam chain tensioner and j-tube (as Skip had mentioned since the cam cover will be off). Normally, one wouldn't have to consider replacing this item at only 60K. Most of us S2 guys look at doing it sometime after 80K. However it sounds as though alot of basic maintenance has been overlooked on this particular car. That being the case I personally wouldn't take anything for granted. If the previous owner didn't do the easy stuff, how likely do you think it is that he/she took care of the major (reads expensive) maintenance?

As Jim said, timing belt failure is a catastrophic event in the 924/944/968 series cars. Additionally, the S2 & 968 owners have to be concerned about the cam chain tensioner/vario-cam assemblies as well. Failure of either of the above results in a (usually) minimum of $3K in damage. Head rebuild for an S2 can range from $2.5K (great deal) to complete engine rebuild (say if a valve breaks off when it hits the piston). Not trying to scare you but not taking care of this stuff is a BIG gamble.

I know it is easy for me to say but bite the bullet now and drive many happy miles. Again, welcome to Rennlist.

Best Regards,
Max
If you are paying to have all of this done it will be expensive

 

Can you do the any of the work yourself?
I got a centerforce kit for $600

The control arm ball joints can be rebuilt by Dynamic European Technologies for $150 each.

Timing belt is tricky without the belt tensioner tool.

 

Listen guys

This is really usefuladvice - thanks for the tremendous outpouring of helpful comments - I will definitely heed the admonitions to have the pump/seals taken care of and will inquire regarding some of the other items - I suspect some of them are covered by the 60K service. I may get another estimate on the clutch...

Out of sheer gratefulness, I have become a paying member of rennlist Actually I had been meaning to join anyway. But seriously the advice has been most helpful- thanks all.

 

My .02 cents here......

1) Clutch estimate is high. I belive Paragon has a clutch kit for around $600. Your labor quote, at $60 hr, works out to 18.75 hours. Isn't book labor rated at 10-12 hrs??

2) Ball joints. Labor seems reasonable. A rebuild kit can be had from Sloan at SSI Auto. <a href="http://www.ssiauto.com" target="_blank">SSI Auto</a>
I have his kit in my car. Price was $175 last time I checked. Don't kill me if the price has gone up, it's been a while.

3) 60K service. Do all the belts and rollers. All fluids (brake, coolant, gear oil, etc.) While all that is off, REPLACE THE WATERPUMP! You don't want to come back 15k later and have to take all that off again.

Congratulations and welcome. Good luck...