I want a V8
03-23-2002, 12:41 PM
#31
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I love this hot rodding stuff! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
First let me say I love the sound of a small block V8. Had several hot rods, loved them all. Now it's interesting to say, that the current 951 is the fastest of all of them, with only 1/2 the displacement and twice their gas mileage. But, that's another story.
My pros and cons for the swap.
Pros:
-Wakes up an already fantastic car.
-Great Sound
-Torque from the get go all the way up!
-Acceptable weight distribution (52/48)
Note: Many 944 race cars are in this boat, because most of the weight is taken out of the interior and not the engine compartment.
-cheep parts
-cheep swap - do your own work.
-acceptable gas mileage from modern FI LT1
Cons:
-Smog laws. Can be done for Calif, but it's a pain, and you never know if the tester is just going to laugh at you.
-PCA doen't recognize this as a Porsche, so no club events (autocross, DE, TT), (unless you own another Porsche) This is definatly on of the reasons I bought a Porsche.
-You must be mechanically inclined to do this cost effectivly. (and Creative)
-You're PorcshA friends will disown you, (but we'll still love ya!) <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
Hot Rodders Unite! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
First let me say I love the sound of a small block V8. Had several hot rods, loved them all. Now it's interesting to say, that the current 951 is the fastest of all of them, with only 1/2 the displacement and twice their gas mileage. But, that's another story.
My pros and cons for the swap.
Pros:
-Wakes up an already fantastic car.
-Great Sound
-Torque from the get go all the way up!
-Acceptable weight distribution (52/48)
Note: Many 944 race cars are in this boat, because most of the weight is taken out of the interior and not the engine compartment.
-cheep parts
-cheep swap - do your own work.
-acceptable gas mileage from modern FI LT1
Cons:
-Smog laws. Can be done for Calif, but it's a pain, and you never know if the tester is just going to laugh at you.
-PCA doen't recognize this as a Porsche, so no club events (autocross, DE, TT), (unless you own another Porsche) This is definatly on of the reasons I bought a Porsche.
-You must be mechanically inclined to do this cost effectivly. (and Creative)
-You're PorcshA friends will disown you, (but we'll still love ya!) <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
Hot Rodders Unite! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
03-23-2002, 12:43 PM
#32
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[quote]Originally posted by Douglas G.:
<strong>Hi Guys!
Scott likes to tell of a client down south, Atlanta I believe, that regularly crushes Vipers and Vettes on the track in a 91 S2 with an LT1 pushing about 380-400HP with the windows rolled up and the A/C on!! This weight shift can be partially mitigated by relocating the battery to the rear and deep sixing the pop up headlight assemblies for the 924GT style units.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have been lucky enough to ride in that car, it is WAY fast!!!
There are two ways to do anything, 1/2 assed or all out. Throwing a v8 under the hood and calling it quits would be 1/2 assed! Upgrading suspension, tires, brakes etc. along with that LT1 under the hood makes for a very sweet ride.
<a href="http://www.easyfoto.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=261571&uid=129677" target="_blank">web page</a>
<strong>Hi Guys!
Scott likes to tell of a client down south, Atlanta I believe, that regularly crushes Vipers and Vettes on the track in a 91 S2 with an LT1 pushing about 380-400HP with the windows rolled up and the A/C on!! This weight shift can be partially mitigated by relocating the battery to the rear and deep sixing the pop up headlight assemblies for the 924GT style units.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I have been lucky enough to ride in that car, it is WAY fast!!!
There are two ways to do anything, 1/2 assed or all out. Throwing a v8 under the hood and calling it quits would be 1/2 assed! Upgrading suspension, tires, brakes etc. along with that LT1 under the hood makes for a very sweet ride.
<a href="http://www.easyfoto.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=261571&uid=129677" target="_blank">web page</a>
03-25-2002, 09:23 PM
#33
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It is my understanding that the new C-5 Vette motor is lower profile and all aluminum. Anybody seen this done or know what the difference in weight is. How does the torque tube and tranny of hold up to the torque of the v8?
03-25-2002, 09:47 PM
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Yeah, the C-5 and Z06 LS-1 (as opposed to LT-1) motor is all aluminum and has a lower clearance. It would probably be an excellent candidate for a 944 conversion. As far as the torque tube and drive shafts are concerned, there are plenty of guys running 400+ HP 944 w/ mods that seem to be ok with the stock driveline. I guess it's a matter of getting your feet wet and seeing what works and what doesn't. I'm not to familiar with the modifications available to 944 shafts and torque tubes, so I'm not even sure if upgrades are really possible.
- Jon
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03-25-2002, 11:35 PM
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The LS1 engine will not fit in a 944. The LT1 oil pan is modified to clear the Porsche cross-member. This cant be done on the LS1 because the skirting on the block is longer (oil pan flatter) and in the way. Of course anything is possible but it would include major mods to front suspension.
03-26-2002, 02:50 AM
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My opinion only of course, but this is what I see happening:
1. Buy the V8 spending bucketloads of $$$$
2. Spend more $$$$ and a lot of time actually getting the job finished.
3. Spend more $$$$ and time upgrading other parts of the car to put up with the new V8 engine
4. Actually finish the project (maybe) and drive it round loving the new V8 power with 944 chassis
5. Quickly get bored of the extra power and wonder why the hell you spent all that money and time making your car slightly faster.
6. Sell it soon after for not even half what you paid to upgrade the engine and only slightly above what the car would have sold for without any mods being made.
I don't think the 928 engine would be a serious option either. This completely defeats the purpose and will throw the weight off, even if it fits.
If it were as easy as what Renegade say it is, then everyone would get one. I think in the real world not everyone can throw this much money and time into a car that's not worth much to begin with. It sounds nice but it's just not practical.
If you really want more Porsche power get a 911 or 928. I think these would be the easy option and neither would disappoint you.
Sam.
1. Buy the V8 spending bucketloads of $$$$
2. Spend more $$$$ and a lot of time actually getting the job finished.
3. Spend more $$$$ and time upgrading other parts of the car to put up with the new V8 engine
4. Actually finish the project (maybe) and drive it round loving the new V8 power with 944 chassis
5. Quickly get bored of the extra power and wonder why the hell you spent all that money and time making your car slightly faster.
6. Sell it soon after for not even half what you paid to upgrade the engine and only slightly above what the car would have sold for without any mods being made.
I don't think the 928 engine would be a serious option either. This completely defeats the purpose and will throw the weight off, even if it fits.
If it were as easy as what Renegade say it is, then everyone would get one. I think in the real world not everyone can throw this much money and time into a car that's not worth much to begin with. It sounds nice but it's just not practical.
If you really want more Porsche power get a 911 or 928. I think these would be the easy option and neither would disappoint you.
Sam.
03-26-2002, 03:02 AM
#37
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[quote]Originally posted by sb944:
<strong>5. Quickly get bored of the extra power and wonder why the hell you spent all that money and time making your car slightly faster.</strong><hr></blockquote>
150hp vs. 405hp. I think that is a little more than "slightly faster".
<strong>5. Quickly get bored of the extra power and wonder why the hell you spent all that money and time making your car slightly faster.</strong><hr></blockquote>
150hp vs. 405hp. I think that is a little more than "slightly faster".
03-26-2002, 10:40 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by sb944:
<strong>My opinion only of course, but this is what I see happening:
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This should read: "My uneducated comments are"
Have you ever seen or driven a converted 944?
Please, Please, Please send me a list of all these converted 944's that are for sale so cheap!!
<strong>My opinion only of course, but this is what I see happening:
</strong><hr></blockquote>
This should read: "My uneducated comments are"
Have you ever seen or driven a converted 944?
Please, Please, Please send me a list of all these converted 944's that are for sale so cheap!!
03-26-2002, 11:33 AM
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I really can't believe what I'm hearing. Obviously, people don't really know what it costs to make a conversion like this. 944LT1, you'd probably know way better than I would, but I've been pricing around and every time I add it all up it is still way cheaper than a 928 or a 911! Not to mention that a 944 with a V8 could smoke a stock 928 (well, a GTS might keep up) or 911. Sam, no flames or anything, but it's actually very economical to convert over to a V8 as opposed to adding all kinds of upgrades to the 2.5L lump. It's more likely that you'd spend less dropping the V8 in than you would to make the same horsepower in the 4-banger.
- Jon
- Jon
03-27-2002, 10:37 AM
#41
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Who dug this post up?
That thing was from last summer, so it's not like I am looking to drop a 928 motor in Argento. At the time I was just curious. I hadn't become emotionally attached to Argento yet.
This thread really begs the question that I've seen on here countless times. What makes it a Porsche? The engine? Badge? What?
Think of it this way. If you were to receive a heart transplant because yours didn't work anymore, would you no longer be YOU? Would you be someone else in your body, with your hands, feet, etc.? But still that other person? No. You still have your soul. And in my mind saving a car destined for the junkyard or parts bin by replacing the engine with Audi, VW, LT1, Porsche - WHATEVER - doesn't change that it is a Porsche.
That thing was from last summer, so it's not like I am looking to drop a 928 motor in Argento. At the time I was just curious. I hadn't become emotionally attached to Argento yet.
This thread really begs the question that I've seen on here countless times. What makes it a Porsche? The engine? Badge? What?
Think of it this way. If you were to receive a heart transplant because yours didn't work anymore, would you no longer be YOU? Would you be someone else in your body, with your hands, feet, etc.? But still that other person? No. You still have your soul. And in my mind saving a car destined for the junkyard or parts bin by replacing the engine with Audi, VW, LT1, Porsche - WHATEVER - doesn't change that it is a Porsche.
03-27-2002, 07:46 PM
#42
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I think the metaphor is a little strained. If I have a heart transplant, I'm still me. But if I get a brain transplant, I'm not me anymore. Maybe a better/smarter/nicer person, but still not me.
Anyways, the question of 'when is a Porsche not a Porsche anymore' isn't that interesting. I don't have any philosophical issue with swapping in a different engine, but one of the reasons I bought my Porsche is because of the car's character. I'm sure its character would be very different with a different engine. Maybe it would be good, maybe bad, but not the same car.
If you wanna do it, do it. A 400 cu. in. engine out of a 69 Pontiac GTO might be fun... or a 12 cylinder out of a Jag. I won't do it for one reason: there's cheaper and easier ways to get there.
Though I might build my own car from scratch someday. Now that would be something...
Thaddeus
Anyways, the question of 'when is a Porsche not a Porsche anymore' isn't that interesting. I don't have any philosophical issue with swapping in a different engine, but one of the reasons I bought my Porsche is because of the car's character. I'm sure its character would be very different with a different engine. Maybe it would be good, maybe bad, but not the same car.
If you wanna do it, do it. A 400 cu. in. engine out of a 69 Pontiac GTO might be fun... or a 12 cylinder out of a Jag. I won't do it for one reason: there's cheaper and easier ways to get there.
Though I might build my own car from scratch someday. Now that would be something...
Thaddeus
03-27-2002, 08:41 PM
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Hi again,
First of all I have driven a 924 conversion, but not a 944. When I was looking to buy a 944 I saw a converted 924 V8 and took a look. It was quick, but wasn't a great car, as it didn't look or feel very stable and reliable. The owner was happy to show me receipts of what he spent getting that car from a 924 to a V8 and there was a lot of money spent that the owner will never get back, some receipts were dated only months before hand. I bought my car a couple of weeks later for more than the converted car, while this car was still for sale for many weeks later and possibly never got sold.
I believe that you get what you pay for most times, and 400 HP, to be reliable, safe, and to feel safe, not just fast, requires proper engineering and replacing of most parts (brakes, clutch etc) not just buying a kit and dropping in a 400 HP engine. That won’t be cheap or easy, it may still be cheaper than getting Porsche 400HP, but then I still think Porsche 400HP to be better than Chevy 400HP.
Matt doesn't feel this way anymore, which pretty much sums up how most people feel about this conversion. I think a lot of people think about it for a while, but so few go through with it, which really tells you something.
To everyone who’s going through with a V8 project the best of luck to you, and to all that have done it, I hope it’s working out as well as you figured. I don’t mind admitting that if anyone has a more reliable and much faster car after doing this, I’m a little jealous. But still more jealous of people with 964’s, 993’s, 996’s and a few other cars too. Once again that's my (uneducated?) opinion so don’t flame me saying a V8 944 is far better than a stock 964.
As for Matt’s second point about saving a 944 from the parts bin, I think that’s a different story. If you start off with no engine, and it’s a similar price to put in an engine with more power and reliability (properly engineered still) then it’s definitely an option. Not something I’d do but an option.
I think that’s all I have to say for now.
Good luck to all,
Sam.
First of all I have driven a 924 conversion, but not a 944. When I was looking to buy a 944 I saw a converted 924 V8 and took a look. It was quick, but wasn't a great car, as it didn't look or feel very stable and reliable. The owner was happy to show me receipts of what he spent getting that car from a 924 to a V8 and there was a lot of money spent that the owner will never get back, some receipts were dated only months before hand. I bought my car a couple of weeks later for more than the converted car, while this car was still for sale for many weeks later and possibly never got sold.
I believe that you get what you pay for most times, and 400 HP, to be reliable, safe, and to feel safe, not just fast, requires proper engineering and replacing of most parts (brakes, clutch etc) not just buying a kit and dropping in a 400 HP engine. That won’t be cheap or easy, it may still be cheaper than getting Porsche 400HP, but then I still think Porsche 400HP to be better than Chevy 400HP.
Matt doesn't feel this way anymore, which pretty much sums up how most people feel about this conversion. I think a lot of people think about it for a while, but so few go through with it, which really tells you something.
To everyone who’s going through with a V8 project the best of luck to you, and to all that have done it, I hope it’s working out as well as you figured. I don’t mind admitting that if anyone has a more reliable and much faster car after doing this, I’m a little jealous. But still more jealous of people with 964’s, 993’s, 996’s and a few other cars too. Once again that's my (uneducated?) opinion so don’t flame me saying a V8 944 is far better than a stock 964.
As for Matt’s second point about saving a 944 from the parts bin, I think that’s a different story. If you start off with no engine, and it’s a similar price to put in an engine with more power and reliability (properly engineered still) then it’s definitely an option. Not something I’d do but an option.
I think that’s all I have to say for now.
Good luck to all,
Sam.
03-27-2002, 10:46 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by sb944:
<strong>Once again that's my (uneducated?) opinion so don’t flame me saying a V8 944 is far better than a stock 964.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sam, Your first post Flames all V8 conversions based on the one poor example you saw. And who said a V8 944 was far better than a 964 or any other car for that matter? And why would you be jealous of some guy with a 993 or 996....it's all about wanting what you have NOT having what you want.
<a href="http://www.easyfoto.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=261571&uid=129677" target="_blank">944LT1</a>
<strong>Once again that's my (uneducated?) opinion so don’t flame me saying a V8 944 is far better than a stock 964.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sam, Your first post Flames all V8 conversions based on the one poor example you saw. And who said a V8 944 was far better than a 964 or any other car for that matter? And why would you be jealous of some guy with a 993 or 996....it's all about wanting what you have NOT having what you want.
<a href="http://www.easyfoto.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=261571&uid=129677" target="_blank">944LT1</a>
03-28-2002, 12:36 AM
#45
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I'm with Jim968, the 944 is a well rounded car, good at all aspects of driving, handling, braking, power, etc..
These cars that are left deserve proper maintenence and such to preserve them.
I know it sounds corny, but I restore salvaged Porsche's and resell them and feel damned good about it.
Take a look at the video, Porsche, Victory by Design, when your feeling low about your current situation, broken timing belt etc..
When I'm rebuilding a car my wife ask "Are you finished..?"
My son replies, "It's never finished"..
That's the point, it's for the LOVE of the mark.!
I work on Porsche's and American cars,got a call from another local shop saying they were sending someone over with a 911 starter problem. The car pulls up to a bay door, rumbling like a small block Chevy, I walk to the passenger door and say, "Man, that thing is sounding rough"..
The owner says "the starter won't work, where do you want me to kill the engine, should be easy to fix, (smiling) it's a V-8"..
Me-"Park it wherever you want, but not here, when I took the call I thought it was a Porsche..!"
Re: Reliability...
Come on guys, take a look at present and past endurance racing.. There is no better evaluation of reliability. Check the finishing list of the last five Daytona, Sebring, and LeMans, and count the Porche's vs. American small block engines.
Cheers
These cars that are left deserve proper maintenence and such to preserve them.
I know it sounds corny, but I restore salvaged Porsche's and resell them and feel damned good about it.
Take a look at the video, Porsche, Victory by Design, when your feeling low about your current situation, broken timing belt etc..
When I'm rebuilding a car my wife ask "Are you finished..?"
My son replies, "It's never finished"..
That's the point, it's for the LOVE of the mark.!
I work on Porsche's and American cars,got a call from another local shop saying they were sending someone over with a 911 starter problem. The car pulls up to a bay door, rumbling like a small block Chevy, I walk to the passenger door and say, "Man, that thing is sounding rough"..
The owner says "the starter won't work, where do you want me to kill the engine, should be easy to fix, (smiling) it's a V-8"..
Me-"Park it wherever you want, but not here, when I took the call I thought it was a Porsche..!"
Re: Reliability...
Come on guys, take a look at present and past endurance racing.. There is no better evaluation of reliability. Check the finishing list of the last five Daytona, Sebring, and LeMans, and count the Porche's vs. American small block engines.
Cheers