944 S2 vs. 951
03-18-2003, 08:02 AM
#31
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I have both, albeit in cabrio form. I like each one for different reasons. The S2 is great around town whereas the 951 is more understated when not on boost, but exhilarating when it kicks in.
S2Nut, the cabs weigh more than the coupes (around 140 lbs), but then again that would be like riding with a light copilot, wouldn't it?
S2Nut, the cabs weigh more than the coupes (around 140 lbs), but then again that would be like riding with a light copilot, wouldn't it?
03-18-2003, 08:16 AM
#32
I just met a friend of mine who have a '90 S2.
He just had a major timing belt disaster. So far he know that at least 10 valves are bent.
The belts were changed about year ago.They had 30K km's on them.
He just had a major timing belt disaster. So far he know that at least 10 valves are bent.
The belts were changed about year ago.They had 30K km's on them.
03-18-2003, 12:45 PM
#33
Nordschleife Master
The difrence in the car depends on wear and when and why. The cabriolet is supurb over all other 44's on the nice summer days. The turbo's have more topend. The 0-60 of early turbo's vs s2's depends on 2 things if both cars are open diffs then its a tie. If both are LSD then again the turbo is faster because it can use a onboost launch. If the S2 has LSD and the turbo is open then the S2 is the faster 0-60. No mater though the turbo takes a s2 usually around 70mph. The S2 is the lighter car and thus makes it the better handling of the two cars (something like 200lbs lighter) people arguee this back and forth but the one that is most widely debated is weather the Cabriolet is really the "best handling 944" The reason this is debated is because the cabriolet even though it is 140lbs more chunky then the plain s2 its weight is down low really low (in auto-reviews the cabriolet bested the 944 group in skidpad with the same tire sizes). Some claim that the turbo has more Power then the s2. This is true but then again you have to go into gear ratio's were the s2 provides nice tourque with 3.88:1 that comes out to 803.16lbs tourque the turbo's 3.38:1 highes possible tourqe rating even on boost is 821.34lbs tourque.(these are calculated after going throught the final drive ratio.) The s2 provides 208hp or 211hp and 207lbs tourque. The turbo provides 217hp and 243lbs tourque. People claim that the turbo would have alot more but the reality is the s2's engine is just a mellow beast. It never surges with power but if you look down at the mph gauge it moves with sudden urgency to your desired speed.
03-18-2003, 12:51 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
as far as reliablity they both have there issues. The s2 has the cam-chain tensioner along with other the "belts" the turbo has the turbo to deal with along with the same "belts" so all in all reliablity is about the same since they run on the same suspention,brakes,drivetrain.
03-18-2003, 12:58 PM
#35
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I think the cam tensioner problem is way overrated. It's a cheap part and from what I hear not hard to replace at all. As far as working on the car, S2 anyday. Much less busy in the engine bay and under the car because it doesn't have all the turbo plumbing. Extra hassle worth the extra power? Maybe. If you don't do your own work on then I doubt the shops will charge much less to work on an S2 than a turbo.
Normally you see S2s in better shape, maybe just because they're usually a few years newer, but also every S2 I see seems to have a lot more miles than the turbos do. I'm guessing more people use them as daily drivers.
On the track..well my car has a turbo gearbox so it has a little less grunt than a stock one I guess. Even so, exit speed on carousel corners I run up on turbos pretty good since as soon as it's time to get back on the throttle I've got full power ready to go whereas the turbo has to wait a second or two to build boost back up. Supposedly if you're REALLY good and can keep the boost up during a carousel like that the turbo might be better but I've seen very few that are able to do that, although I am still in the newb run groups.
Normally you see S2s in better shape, maybe just because they're usually a few years newer, but also every S2 I see seems to have a lot more miles than the turbos do. I'm guessing more people use them as daily drivers.
On the track..well my car has a turbo gearbox so it has a little less grunt than a stock one I guess. Even so, exit speed on carousel corners I run up on turbos pretty good since as soon as it's time to get back on the throttle I've got full power ready to go whereas the turbo has to wait a second or two to build boost back up. Supposedly if you're REALLY good and can keep the boost up during a carousel like that the turbo might be better but I've seen very few that are able to do that, although I am still in the newb run groups.
03-18-2003, 01:24 PM
#36
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
<strong>I have both, albeit in cabrio form. I like each one for different reasons. The S2 is great around town whereas the 951 is more understated when not on boost, but exhilarating when it kicks in.
S2Nut, the cabs weigh more than the coupes (around 140 lbs), but then again that would be like riding with a light copilot, wouldn't it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">True but he wasn't riding with anyone, and the 140 I think would make a world of a diff? Would it not? Seeings how ppl want carbon fiber this, carbon/f that, lighter rims, etc... Do you find a major diff in performance between the S2/S2cabby? I have never ridden in a cabby. I just asumed it was gonna be diff and he was comparing cabby to coupe, with the exception of turbo. Dumb question Are all 951 cabs S models? Prolly not eh?
<strong>I have both, albeit in cabrio form. I like each one for different reasons. The S2 is great around town whereas the 951 is more understated when not on boost, but exhilarating when it kicks in.
S2Nut, the cabs weigh more than the coupes (around 140 lbs), but then again that would be like riding with a light copilot, wouldn't it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">True but he wasn't riding with anyone, and the 140 I think would make a world of a diff? Would it not? Seeings how ppl want carbon fiber this, carbon/f that, lighter rims, etc... Do you find a major diff in performance between the S2/S2cabby? I have never ridden in a cabby. I just asumed it was gonna be diff and he was comparing cabby to coupe, with the exception of turbo. Dumb question Are all 951 cabs S models? Prolly not eh?
03-18-2003, 01:25 PM
#37
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Olli Snellman:
<strong>I just met a friend of mine who have a '90 S2.
He just had a major timing belt disaster. So far he know that at least 10 valves are bent.
The belts were changed about year ago.They had 30K km's on them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What do you think is goning to happen to a 951 when the belts fail? Besides 2 less valves hehehe.
At any rate, I think the S2/TURBO are the best cars ever built in there current price ranges. Both beautiful, both fast, and with no other word to substitute this TIMELESS
<strong>I just met a friend of mine who have a '90 S2.
He just had a major timing belt disaster. So far he know that at least 10 valves are bent.
The belts were changed about year ago.They had 30K km's on them.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What do you think is goning to happen to a 951 when the belts fail? Besides 2 less valves hehehe.
At any rate, I think the S2/TURBO are the best cars ever built in there current price ranges. Both beautiful, both fast, and with no other word to substitute this TIMELESS
03-18-2003, 02:17 PM
#38
A lot of this comes down to two questions:
1. How will you use the car
2. What is the best car you will find
If you plan on track events or doing significant modifications to the car then the 951 is your best bet. This is not to say that the S2 is not great on the track, merely that the 951 is faster and can be made to go much faster!
If you are like most owners the most important issue is going to be finding the right car. I looked hard for the best 951 or S2 I could find. I found lots of junk and it was just coincidence that I found a nice S2 before I found a nice 951.
1. How will you use the car
2. What is the best car you will find
If you plan on track events or doing significant modifications to the car then the 951 is your best bet. This is not to say that the S2 is not great on the track, merely that the 951 is faster and can be made to go much faster!
If you are like most owners the most important issue is going to be finding the right car. I looked hard for the best 951 or S2 I could find. I found lots of junk and it was just coincidence that I found a nice S2 before I found a nice 951.
03-18-2003, 03:11 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by 944S2NUT:
<strong>Dumb question Are all 951 cabs S models? Prolly not eh?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Interesting question. We had a lengthy debate regarding what makes a 951 an "S" car in another thread. Technically, the "only" 944 Turbo S was the 1988 coupe with option M758.
However, as you know, all 951 cars built from 1989 onwards, including the 1991 cabrios, were fitted with the essential "S" options, including the M44/52 engine with a bigger turbo, and LSD.
As for my car specifically, the correct factory model denomination for it is "944 Turbo Cabriolet 250 HP," but given that the "951S" denomination is used loosely for '89+ 951 cars in the U.S. and Rennlist is a U.S.-based Internet community, I prefer to simply call it a "951S Cab," which I think gets the point across that it's a factory 951 cabriolet and not an S2 cab conversion.
<strong>Dumb question Are all 951 cabs S models? Prolly not eh?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Interesting question. We had a lengthy debate regarding what makes a 951 an "S" car in another thread. Technically, the "only" 944 Turbo S was the 1988 coupe with option M758.
However, as you know, all 951 cars built from 1989 onwards, including the 1991 cabrios, were fitted with the essential "S" options, including the M44/52 engine with a bigger turbo, and LSD.
As for my car specifically, the correct factory model denomination for it is "944 Turbo Cabriolet 250 HP," but given that the "951S" denomination is used loosely for '89+ 951 cars in the U.S. and Rennlist is a U.S.-based Internet community, I prefer to simply call it a "951S Cab," which I think gets the point across that it's a factory 951 cabriolet and not an S2 cab conversion.
03-19-2003, 01:57 AM
#42
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What do you think is goning to happen to a 951 when the belts fail? Besides 2 less valves hehehe.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">i know what happens to 951 when the belts fail.When this happens to S2 it will cost twice as much it will cost for 951 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
03-19-2003, 10:54 AM
#44
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I have a low mileage S2 for sale, Tony "blueS2" has a low mileage S2. the reason you dont see as many low mileage S2s is there were less made.
it seems like everyone but me that has a clean, unbastardized 951 or S2 is keeping the car. probably something i should do too. My S2 with the konis, and pilot tires is sweeet. just a pleasure to drive, so well balanced, and it has more than enough power for this urban cowboy. i dont think a 90's 3 series convert will drive much nicer.
i got nothing against turbos, in fact i didnt even want the extra 8 valves when i bought this car. like ralph, it was just too clean to walk away from, it was about a half hour from my house, and it wasnt my fourth choice of color.
it seems like everyone but me that has a clean, unbastardized 951 or S2 is keeping the car. probably something i should do too. My S2 with the konis, and pilot tires is sweeet. just a pleasure to drive, so well balanced, and it has more than enough power for this urban cowboy. i dont think a 90's 3 series convert will drive much nicer.
i got nothing against turbos, in fact i didnt even want the extra 8 valves when i bought this car. like ralph, it was just too clean to walk away from, it was about a half hour from my house, and it wasnt my fourth choice of color.