OT: good motorcycle for beginner?
05-17-2002, 09:21 PM
#16
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thanks a lot for all the advice guys.
the one question left sort of unanswered is whether a fairing or windsheild or whatever you call it on a bike is a good thing or bad? i'll probably do some freeway riding.
so i at first thought that taking a class sounded like a gay way to learn to ride but not only have a bunch of you reccomended msf, but most of the web sites i've looked at today do as well. i'll give them a call over the weekend and see if that is something that could be made to fit my schedule and budget.
i'm off to go camping for the weekend and will bump up this thread next week once i find some specific bikes for sale in this area.
thanks again everyone!
the one question left sort of unanswered is whether a fairing or windsheild or whatever you call it on a bike is a good thing or bad? i'll probably do some freeway riding.
so i at first thought that taking a class sounded like a gay way to learn to ride but not only have a bunch of you reccomended msf, but most of the web sites i've looked at today do as well. i'll give them a call over the weekend and see if that is something that could be made to fit my schedule and budget.
i'm off to go camping for the weekend and will bump up this thread next week once i find some specific bikes for sale in this area.
thanks again everyone!
05-17-2002, 09:42 PM
#17
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Ben,
I've been riding since 1973, my first bike was a british 850 twin, so I always get trolled into commenting on the bike issues...
As a beginner to motorcycles you need to do a couple of things- learn your skills, get road confidence, understand the bike itself as well. And you were pretty clear about another - price. My suggestions may be a bit different than a few others here, but oh well, that's the web for ya!
I'd suggest a BMW R65 or equivalent size, mid to late 80s to early 90's. They are really easy bikes to learn on. They're well built and very tough. They hold up much better than similar aged Japanese/Italian/English products. They are light, reasonably powered, smooth riding and everything is exposed, from engine bits and electronics, to forks and suspension. That means it's really accessable to work on it. And there are some models that have fairings, which do make it comfortable in the elements, but they break easily if you pull a newbie move and drop the bike on it's side -i've never ever done that
But my favorite part about BMWs? You can still get all the parts you'll ever need. I've had a few older Japanese bikes, in this vintage, and parts are a bitch. Some Yamaha stuff, critical small pieces, aren't available anywhere. English bikes? Love em, but they're not easy to keep running. Had a snortin Norton and Triumph Bonneville. Italian? elegant and pricey, we're talking collectibles with prices to match.
The BMWs? They're not very sexy to a lot of people, but they are damn practical. The points to consider? They maintain their used price value well, there is a strong community to support the marque, you can buy every part you'll ever need from RPM cycles in Santa Barbara by phone and mail, or from local dealers, and if you really like riding, you'll likely be proud of having a sensible bike like a BMW. And if you pick up any German skills you can leverage across the Porsche as well
I had a 1979 R100S that I rode the snot out of for years. It was a superbike in its day, and was a joy to ride. Tuning it was easy. And it rarely needed tuning. The bolts were in all the right places. The design was really straight forward. I sold my R100S a few years to first time rding friend. He loved it.
That's my 102 cents...
Cheers,
I've been riding since 1973, my first bike was a british 850 twin, so I always get trolled into commenting on the bike issues...
As a beginner to motorcycles you need to do a couple of things- learn your skills, get road confidence, understand the bike itself as well. And you were pretty clear about another - price. My suggestions may be a bit different than a few others here, but oh well, that's the web for ya!
I'd suggest a BMW R65 or equivalent size, mid to late 80s to early 90's. They are really easy bikes to learn on. They're well built and very tough. They hold up much better than similar aged Japanese/Italian/English products. They are light, reasonably powered, smooth riding and everything is exposed, from engine bits and electronics, to forks and suspension. That means it's really accessable to work on it. And there are some models that have fairings, which do make it comfortable in the elements, but they break easily if you pull a newbie move and drop the bike on it's side -i've never ever done that
But my favorite part about BMWs? You can still get all the parts you'll ever need. I've had a few older Japanese bikes, in this vintage, and parts are a bitch. Some Yamaha stuff, critical small pieces, aren't available anywhere. English bikes? Love em, but they're not easy to keep running. Had a snortin Norton and Triumph Bonneville. Italian? elegant and pricey, we're talking collectibles with prices to match.
The BMWs? They're not very sexy to a lot of people, but they are damn practical. The points to consider? They maintain their used price value well, there is a strong community to support the marque, you can buy every part you'll ever need from RPM cycles in Santa Barbara by phone and mail, or from local dealers, and if you really like riding, you'll likely be proud of having a sensible bike like a BMW. And if you pick up any German skills you can leverage across the Porsche as well
I had a 1979 R100S that I rode the snot out of for years. It was a superbike in its day, and was a joy to ride. Tuning it was easy. And it rarely needed tuning. The bolts were in all the right places. The design was really straight forward. I sold my R100S a few years to first time rding friend. He loved it.
That's my 102 cents...
Cheers,
05-17-2002, 10:01 PM
#18
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oh yeah, mileage, cylinders, and displacement
Most older 70s-80s Japanese bikes are in tough shape after 40-50,000 miles. Especially if they've been in the hands of lots of young owners.
I'd say most brit bikes these days are finding their ways into the hands of collectors, so they're getting resotred or at least refurbished. But the same mileage numbers seem to be good rule of thumb.
Again, in favor BMWs, they regularly rack up big miles. I've seen a bunch of 100K mile beemers.
BMWs mostly are horizontal opposed twins, like old aircooled Volkswagons and Porsches with either a half or a third of the pistons. I love the sound of a BMW twin at 500 rpm, sliding back and forth in the jugs. It's very cool. There is a variant to BMW's aircooled design, they came out with a K series, two flavors, a three cylinder 750, and a foru cylinder 1000. I like 'em, but not as much as the traditional twins.
Japanese bikes come in a lot of engine configurations. 2 strokes, but most are four strokes. Big singles, vertical twins, V-twins, straight-inline fours, V-fours, aircooled, water cooled. And in the Goldwings, a horizontal four, opposed, that's water cooled.
Cruisers are the big laid back bikes that are derivatives of the Harley look. I'm missing the genes to appreciate these bikes, so rather than raise the ire of their owners, I'll shut-up about 'em.
Size? from 125 cc to 1600cc's. Anything smaller than a 500 is going to be trouble on the highway for any distance. I really like 600-750cc bike to start, unless you're going to get an old 450, and sell it two months later.
Good luck, and even though other drivers do sometimes have trouble seeing you, you have a lot more manuverability on a bike. If your brakes are good and your suspension can handle a quick input to change direction, you can get out of a lot of jams.
cya,
Most older 70s-80s Japanese bikes are in tough shape after 40-50,000 miles. Especially if they've been in the hands of lots of young owners.
I'd say most brit bikes these days are finding their ways into the hands of collectors, so they're getting resotred or at least refurbished. But the same mileage numbers seem to be good rule of thumb.
Again, in favor BMWs, they regularly rack up big miles. I've seen a bunch of 100K mile beemers.
BMWs mostly are horizontal opposed twins, like old aircooled Volkswagons and Porsches with either a half or a third of the pistons. I love the sound of a BMW twin at 500 rpm, sliding back and forth in the jugs. It's very cool. There is a variant to BMW's aircooled design, they came out with a K series, two flavors, a three cylinder 750, and a foru cylinder 1000. I like 'em, but not as much as the traditional twins.
Japanese bikes come in a lot of engine configurations. 2 strokes, but most are four strokes. Big singles, vertical twins, V-twins, straight-inline fours, V-fours, aircooled, water cooled. And in the Goldwings, a horizontal four, opposed, that's water cooled.
Cruisers are the big laid back bikes that are derivatives of the Harley look. I'm missing the genes to appreciate these bikes, so rather than raise the ire of their owners, I'll shut-up about 'em.
Size? from 125 cc to 1600cc's. Anything smaller than a 500 is going to be trouble on the highway for any distance. I really like 600-750cc bike to start, unless you're going to get an old 450, and sell it two months later.
Good luck, and even though other drivers do sometimes have trouble seeing you, you have a lot more manuverability on a bike. If your brakes are good and your suspension can handle a quick input to change direction, you can get out of a lot of jams.
cya,
05-17-2002, 10:47 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
BMWs are great bikes. I'd go for one of those or a Honda. My dad had an '87 BMW K100RS that he rode past 100,000 miles. This, by the way, is ridiculous. Don't worry about displacment. My Yamaha SRX250 was dog slow, but it could stay with my 944 until 60mph. 250 might be small, great for tooling around town, but on the highway it was a scary *** 85mph.
You don't have to spend more than $1500 at all. Even including equipment. My SRX was $500, my helmet was $400 (very important), and my leather jacket was $25 at a swap meet. Gloves I had, but everyone's got an old pair. Old stuff is much better than no stuff.
Far more important than the bike you want to ride is the way you ride it. Take courses. Keep taking them. Your state probably requires at least one course--this doesn't count, this is going through cones. This is a given. Everybody knows that cars pull out in front of motorcycles, but it never quite hits home until someone rolls out onto a road, sees you, stops, looks one way, then looks back, makes eye contact, then jumps out right in front of you so you have to cross a lane of oncoming traffic to avoid going over his roof. It's tremendous.
Get a good helmet, full face, somebody's old gloves with no holes, and then try and scare up a jacket made of thick leather.
When you buy a bike, just like a car, buy from the owner. The bikes you're looking for won't involve deals with kids whose parents said "Either it goes, or you do." Actually, you might find some husbands like that, though...
How're the tires? How're the brakes? Does it start? $1000? Sold. Don't worry about engine size. If it's comfy, it's fine. Compared to cars, there isn't a slow motorcycle on the road, not even Harleys.
If you know a guy with dirt bikes, ride those puppys. Absolute best way to go.
You don't have to spend more than $1500 at all. Even including equipment. My SRX was $500, my helmet was $400 (very important), and my leather jacket was $25 at a swap meet. Gloves I had, but everyone's got an old pair. Old stuff is much better than no stuff.
Far more important than the bike you want to ride is the way you ride it. Take courses. Keep taking them. Your state probably requires at least one course--this doesn't count, this is going through cones. This is a given. Everybody knows that cars pull out in front of motorcycles, but it never quite hits home until someone rolls out onto a road, sees you, stops, looks one way, then looks back, makes eye contact, then jumps out right in front of you so you have to cross a lane of oncoming traffic to avoid going over his roof. It's tremendous.
Get a good helmet, full face, somebody's old gloves with no holes, and then try and scare up a jacket made of thick leather.
When you buy a bike, just like a car, buy from the owner. The bikes you're looking for won't involve deals with kids whose parents said "Either it goes, or you do." Actually, you might find some husbands like that, though...
How're the tires? How're the brakes? Does it start? $1000? Sold. Don't worry about engine size. If it's comfy, it's fine. Compared to cars, there isn't a slow motorcycle on the road, not even Harleys.
If you know a guy with dirt bikes, ride those puppys. Absolute best way to go.
05-17-2002, 10:50 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
IanM said the old CBR600 didn't have enough power to get you in trouble. Stay out of his way. Those things fly. It's common in the bike world, but that doesn't change things. 0-60 in under 3.5 seconds is a problem. You don't want this bike (yet). What I'm saying is, any bike you buy will be fast enough, so don't sweat that.
05-18-2002, 11:19 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
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Full faced helmet with 2 shields, one tinted and one clear. a must IMHO.. tinted for day driving and clear for night driving.. reflections are way closer to your eyes then a wind shield.. next is gloves.. 70 degree's is very cold at 60 miles perhour.. and your hands are doing half of the work. Next is a rain suit, espescially if this is your only mode of transportation.. been caught in a deluge by suprise. also it is good to Rain-X your shields. No wipers and it is a scarry thing to get caught in a downpour. lifting the shield is not an option. at 20 MPH your eye's weep.. I reccomend a good wind sheild for the bike. I took a June bug in the chest once at 40MPH.. almost took me off the bike.. had a nasty bruise for a week or so. After That the leather jacket stayed zipped. Good boots are a must. You put your feet down a lot. and will naturaly put them down if your bike gets slidey...ie train tracks, sand, or just all the crap on the road after winter till they actually get that stuff up. Always Know that NO ONE SEE's you. You are a ghost.. and ride that way.. Not sure why, but any one that rides knows that. They also know for some weird reason some people go out of thier way to actually attack you.. As far as bikes go for speed? I learned on a friends 250 honda renegade.. bought a 500 v-twin Yamaha.. the difference was unreal..Graduated to a 920 midnight Virago.. Loved that bike.. IT was a cruiser handled heavy though.. last bike I owned was a 750 night hawk. weighed way more than the virago. fast as hell. but am more of a cruiser at heart and sold that. Fast bikes make you drive fast. cruisers... welljust as it says lay back and cruise.. I have not rode in the last few years, decided I needed to be around for my son. And bought a porsche. Not nearly the same. Once you ride... you may not want that car to run to soon.. Next year I will buy another bike.. Kid is out of school. I will be looking at a suzuki intruder. Going to instruction school is highly recomended.. Rule of thumb on buying a bike is $1.00 per CC unless the bike is a PRime example.... good luck.. and Looking at the road will never be the same... it passes so fast on a bike and it feels just as free as one should feel... it is highly addictive...
05-18-2002, 04:50 PM
#23
Stay outta my way?? Believe me, I'm not a maniac. Besides...ANY bike can get you into trouble!!! What I was saying (or trying to) was that the old CBR600 has a pretty comfortable power to weight ratio. Sure, it'll haul *** if you really get on it, but I found it to be a perfect first bike for me. You can give it full throttle in any gear without worrying about the front end lifting, the thing felt remarkably stable in the corners, and the brakes were excellent. I've ridden lots of hairy bikes that'll flip you over backwards in 2nd or even 3rd gear, feel really twitchy, are physically large, and are a handful going slow in a parking lot. The old CBR was none of those things. With all that said, I did have previous riding experience before hopping onto it, not lots of experience, but I had ridden some dirtbikes. I'd agree with a lot of the above comments, and offer that my suggestion would be the MOST bike I'd recommend for a beginner.
Noone has mentioned them, but I think enduros are the easiest bikes to learn on. I did my riding license exam on a Kawasaki KLR 650. That thing was sooooo much easier to go around the cones with than any sportbike. The cruisers, like the Yamaha Seca, are also very easy to ride. Good luck, and whatever you decide, be careful, ride smart and smooth, and always assume the other guy doesn't see you!!!
Noone has mentioned them, but I think enduros are the easiest bikes to learn on. I did my riding license exam on a Kawasaki KLR 650. That thing was sooooo much easier to go around the cones with than any sportbike. The cruisers, like the Yamaha Seca, are also very easy to ride. Good luck, and whatever you decide, be careful, ride smart and smooth, and always assume the other guy doesn't see you!!!
05-20-2002, 05:29 AM
#24
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I'd go for a bike with a fairing if you are going to be doing much freeway cruising. It's a lot more comfortable than having the wind against your chest for hours.
Do you have the Suzuki 600 Bandit over there? They are very popular starter bikes over here as they are cheap to buy and easy to ride. There is a version with a half fairing fitted. Same goes for the Honda CB500S. I started on a CBR400RR which is a good bike if you are not too tall.
I second all the comments on helmets and clothing. Buy the best you can afford and hope it's money wasted.
Take care and enjoy.
Do you have the Suzuki 600 Bandit over there? They are very popular starter bikes over here as they are cheap to buy and easy to ride. There is a version with a half fairing fitted. Same goes for the Honda CB500S. I started on a CBR400RR which is a good bike if you are not too tall.
I second all the comments on helmets and clothing. Buy the best you can afford and hope it's money wasted.
Take care and enjoy.
05-20-2002, 08:20 AM
#25
Burning Brakes
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lOOK AT HONDA INTERCEPTOR 500.Ive had mine, an 86 since 1988.It s a lot of fun ,good handling ,reliable ,decent power(140 mph)once!Thats enough.Sporty looks good even today. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
05-21-2002, 12:17 AM
#26
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bs, I'm looking at doing the same thing too.
My car insurance company has told me if I keep my kms down by about 4000 per year I can get a Aus$900 discount on insurance for the 944. The extra money sounds great but public transport is too expensive for me, and I sold my other second car because I never wanted to drive it with the 944 there. A motorcycle seems the perfect difference, as it will be just as fun as the 944 and a lot cheaper than a second car. I realise a possible crash is a big negative, but like you, I decided already that I'll be using the bike only in perfect weather and with a lot of caution.
As for starter bikes, Australian law says you need to start with 250cc or less. Most people hate this law, but for my purposes and my safety I think it's a good idea. An good 250cc bike will still go 0-60 in around 5 seconds so they aren't slow either.
Even without the restrictive laws, I would consider something like a 250cc for a cheap, safe way to learn about motorbikes. Very little maintenance, cheaper insurance, cheaper fuel and it won't get you into trouble as easily.
The best advice I've been given is to always be switched on while riding a bike. Try to concentrate on your surrounding vehicles and road texture wherever you go and you should be fine.
Have fun,
Sam.
My car insurance company has told me if I keep my kms down by about 4000 per year I can get a Aus$900 discount on insurance for the 944. The extra money sounds great but public transport is too expensive for me, and I sold my other second car because I never wanted to drive it with the 944 there. A motorcycle seems the perfect difference, as it will be just as fun as the 944 and a lot cheaper than a second car. I realise a possible crash is a big negative, but like you, I decided already that I'll be using the bike only in perfect weather and with a lot of caution.
As for starter bikes, Australian law says you need to start with 250cc or less. Most people hate this law, but for my purposes and my safety I think it's a good idea. An good 250cc bike will still go 0-60 in around 5 seconds so they aren't slow either.
Even without the restrictive laws, I would consider something like a 250cc for a cheap, safe way to learn about motorbikes. Very little maintenance, cheaper insurance, cheaper fuel and it won't get you into trouble as easily.
The best advice I've been given is to always be switched on while riding a bike. Try to concentrate on your surrounding vehicles and road texture wherever you go and you should be fine.
Have fun,
Sam.