ERAU-944

don't get me wrong, my dads 83 has a sunroof and i love it! but he also has an 85.5 with sunroof probs galore. just wondering how rare the solid-roof cars were. lots of interesting responses <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Tremelune

The sunroof rocks my world. It makes such a difference on a nice day. The problems with it are deal withable. As long as it doesn't leak, your set...My transfer box went a while ago, so I basically have no motor function at all...I just unclip it, pop it out and that's it. To put it back on, I just slide it...It's stays loose (when you close the hatch it kinda pops up). It's a hack of a "fix" and it doesn't thrill me, but I wouldn't trade it for a solid roof even in it's present condition.

Jeff928S4

exc911ence - I know what you mean about the roof when you put the wind deflector down. When I took my roof off for the first time ever, I didn't know what that defelector was for. I would have to put my windows down a bit to prevent the massive "thumping". I thought to myself, "This sucks big time". Then one day I hit the wind deflector with my head (moving it up)and the thumping stopped. I was very happy, I tell ya!!!

Sometimes on the highway - I pull down the deflector at high speeds and watch as my friends cover their ears and say, "What the HELL is that!!".

944S Boyeee

Robby

[quote]Originally posted by Skip:
<strong>...some dope in 89 decided to have a dandy ASC sunroof installed...
Any hard-toppers wanna buy it? Seems to fit the 944 perfectly...
Skip</strong><hr></blockquote>

Skip- What is an "ASC" sunroof, and are you serious about seling it, and/or would someone actually WANT to buy one?


To the rest of you- I love sunroofs- one of the main reason's i may sell this car- I HATE these sunroofs. Those of you who like 944 roofs must be really tall(?). I'm 5'9" and I TRY to get back as far as I can (wanting to have some pedal blocks made to get me further back ~2") and the sunroof is too far behind me- as someone else even mentioned they hit their helmet on the front opening- the design of this car was not made around the sunroofs. I don't understand why they couldn't have made the damn thing slide back instead of pop-up or pull out. That function ruins it for highway driving (yes I do drive a little fast though)- it's either all the way open or all the way shut. It COULD slide back on TOP of the car, still be large, still be glass (better yet Lexan for at least 50% less weight- wouldn't THAT be nice), and, be manual to keep the headache factor low, and, possibly even start a little further forward (an inch or so) so us short guys could actualy enjoy it a LITTLE bit more, BUT NOOOOOOO!

BTW- I've got oil on the timing belt of my car- front seals leaking- I had paid to have them replaced when I bought the ****ing car too (2.5yrs ago)!


<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />


Robby- Bitter again, and now wishing I had bought a nice, used, '96 or '97 M3 for about $30K instead of this POS. In the end, I'd have less in the M3, and it's a much better handling performance car, PLUS, I MIGHT actually be able to get a decent percentage of my $ out of it...

Bryan

The sunroof seems to be a marketing choice by PCNA. The option packages on US cars all seem to have the sunroof. In Europe, I believe options are available a la carte. In other words, you can pick and choose individual options and aren't restricted to "sunroof/power windows/central locking" as one package. So it's hard to find a US model that doesn't have the usual set of comfort and convenience options that PCNA deemed they needed to sell cars in the US market.

My '88 euro model has no sunroof, no leather, no AC, no climate control, no alarm, and no cruise. Which, frankly, is a major reason I bought it. This makes it cheap to run and maintain, it's light and quick, and people are always amazed how quiet and tight and solid it feels. Which is due in no small part to its simplicity.

Bryan

ian

[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>

Skip- What is an "ASC" sunroof, and are you serious about seling it, and/or would someone actually WANT to buy one?


To the rest of you- I love sunroofs- one of the main reason's i may sell this car- I HATE these sunroofs. Those of you who like 944 roofs must be really tall(?). I'm 5'9" and I TRY to get back as far as I can (wanting to have some pedal blocks made to get me further back ~2") and the sunroof is too far behind me- as someone else even mentioned they hit their helmet on the front opening- the design of this car was not made around the sunroofs. I don't understand why they couldn't have made the damn thing slide back instead of pop-up or pull out. That function ruins it for highway driving (yes I do drive a little fast though)- it's either all the way open or all the way shut. It COULD slide back on TOP of the car, still be large, still be glass (better yet Lexan for at least 50% less weight- wouldn't THAT be nice), and, be manual to keep the headache factor low, and, possibly even start a little further forward (an inch or so) so us short guys could actualy enjoy it a LITTLE bit more, BUT NOOOOOOO!

BTW- I've got oil on the timing belt of my car- front seals leaking- I had paid to have them replaced when I bought the ****ing car too (2.5yrs ago)!


<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />


Robby- Bitter again, and now wishing I had bought a nice, used, '96 or '97 M3 for about $30K instead of this POS. In the end, I'd have less in the M3, and it's a much better handling performance car, PLUS, I MIGHT actually be able to get a decent percentage of my $ out of it...</strong><hr></blockquote>


There is a very very good reason that the sun roof is not made out of lexan, the same reason that you don't see any fron the factory on "normal" street cars. Lexan scratches, and it also yellows over time. These two things make it not suited for the street.

And go buy an M3... you just might not be a 951 owner. I like e36 M3's, but they don't have the feeling of a 951, they are just a suped up 3er, same as the e46's. These cars are fast no doubt, but they don't have feel. the E30 M3 had feel. The 951 and the E30 M3 are two cars that I could take on a mountain drive and be gone for hours with no radio just enjoying the drive.

Take a look at what you want in a car, don't buy one car and try to make it into something it is not. The 951 will not be a low end grunt monster, that is quiet, and seperates you from the road.

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>Skip- What is an "ASC" sunroof, and are you serious about seling it, and/or would someone actually WANT to buy one?...</strong><hr></blockquote>

ASC = American Sunroof Company - the same folks contracted to make Porsche Cabriolets for many years.

I am serious about selling it, but it's still in the car right now. It needs to be yanked and a new piece of sheetmetal welded in. Probably worth $100 at the least, and does_not look too hard to install.

Some may have interpreted my statement incorrectly... I don't dislike sunroofs - I love them (specifically looked for one in the new Jetta, use the one in the Porsche, etc...). What I was referring to was the decision of someone to add an aftermarket sunroof to a hardtop coupe (rare). I can understand the decision and probably the motivation of less expense than either buying an already equipped targa, or adding the factory moonroof. The comment is more tongue-in-cheek to the fact that I have now decided to race this car, and need to fill a big hole in the roof (have no choice - have to). Had I known this car would be so transformed, I may have made a different decision during the original purchase - my fault either way.

Skip

2zeroes

ian:
[quote]And go buy an M3... you just might not be a 951 owner. <hr></blockquote>

Robby-
I agree with Ian, if you ain't happy with your car, sell it and get an M3. I don't mean to offend you, but I've read your "bitter" posts in the past and its kinda sad to see someone so unhappy with their car.

It's just too bad that you have such a jaded view of the 951's. They really are awesome cars. I've had mine for 6 years now, never once did it fail me nor have I ever thought of selling it, even though I have a little stack of business cards and scraps of paper with names and numbers of people wanting to buy it.

E36 M3's are great cars. I leased one for 3 years but in the end it was the 951 that I kept.

Ethan

No sunroof on my 87 na <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Robby

Yeah, it's true- I DO have a seriously jaded view of THIS car now- but by God, it's not due to lack of TRYING my *** off to make things right! For one thing, I've tried since day one to find some way to get just a little further back into the car to enjoy the SR to no avail. Turbo Tim may work something out, as of several weeks ago, but then this timing belt thing jumped in the way. You know, I never expected the car to be the fastest, best handling thing on the road- too many other affordable cars can out-perform it nowdays. What I DID expect, based on things I'd read (even on this list), was that looking hard, being picky, and having a pre-purchase inspection done, would actually yeild a decent everyday driver that wouldn't bankrupt me. I have ~$22K in the car now- it cost me $9K 2 1/2yrs ago, and NOW, right when I'm trying to save for a rebuild, I get oil in the timing belt....

It comes down to several things-

1. I bought the WRONG car- I mean the wrong 951- many of you have 951's that have had NO problems or at least SAY you do- I'm, sure there are some of BOTH out there...
2. I took it to the WRONG local mechanic first- RPM in Knoxville- they went bankrupt several months after working on my car- they're the ones who screwed the new waterpump up when they put it in- I had NO WATER going to my turbo for over a YEAR! I have to compliment the car here- at least the turbo lasted, as well as the rest of the engine- I AM impressed about that!
3. I live in the WRONG area of the country to own such a car- mechanics don't have to be certified like they do in other areas- like my mech says- "any ******* and his brother can buy a Craftsman toolbox and call himself a Porsche mechanic!"


Oh well, I tried- I would even consider it again if the right one would come out of the wood work w/low enough miles. The prob now is that they cost a lot more to get into- good for owners, but makes shady dealers step into the picture more often. The magazines are mostly who to thank for that. 3yrs ago, these cars were largely untouched b/c no one had any idea how little they could be bought for relative to their performance out-put. Then, all of the sudden, mags like European car start calling them the "bargain performance exotic of the century" and WOULD NOT SHUT UP ABOUT IT. Oh well, it looks like I'll have to replace the t-belt one more time (3rd one since I've had the car BTW) as it's very unlikely I'll be able to sell it quickly enough- who knows? I probably wont be able to sell it at all- i know I'll take a beating for it though...

Well, thanks for listening sports fans

SKIP-
So that's a bolt-in piece for racing then isn't it?

BTW- To Ian, 2Zeroes, etc- I DO NOT THINK THESE CARS ARE PIECES OF S___! I know I've called mine that many times, and SOMETIMES REALLY BELIEVE IT, but I've had NO INTENTION of knocking this whole line of cars- just mine- the 951 (944, etc) is really a cool car- I JUST BOUGHT THE WRONG ONE. As for M3's- I agree about the "feel" of the E30- those were COOL- but as many people know, they have their own headaches, and are difficult to find in good condition for reasonable prices. The E36 is my favorite, but it has it's short comings too- the main ones being the interior (I've always liked our interiors) and the cost to make it faster- you basically have to go to forced induction for any real gains...

I know I'm not a "Porsche" guy- never aspired to be- I don't like the idea of being identified by any car any material posession at all, for that matter...

I DO NOT apologize for stating the truth, however, I DO apologize to the members of this board for coming across any way other than intended AND for going a little too far sometimes- this car has REALLY gotten the better of me. Too bad I couldn't have found a better one- I REALLY do mean that!

Skip

[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>SKIP-
So that's a bolt-in piece for racing then isn't it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not sure what you're asking? The ASC sunroof does bolt-in after making a large hole in the roof of a non-sunroof coupe. It will_not replace the original moonroof in cars so equipped - it's smaller. I will be removing it and welding in a piece of sheetmetal with some additional X-bracing to keep it solid.

Skip

Robby

I guess I just don't completely understand what it is. When you say "moonroof" do you mean the standard sunroof like a Turbo would have? The question about "bolt-in" is this: IF I bought it, would I be able to open and close it like I can already do w/the stock SR panel in my Turbo S? I'm wondering if I could use it in my Turbo S, which came standard w/a SR anyway- If your saying it won't work w/a standard SR, then it doesn't much matter. I was just wondering if you could still raise it up in the back and/or pull it out for a quick drive and then simply put it back in, etc(?). It probably doen't matter much- I was just trying to figure out if there was an advantage to having that panel instead of the normal one(?). When you said it was a perfect fit, I'm assuming (as of now) that you didn't mean a standard size 944 SR hole...

Thanks,
Robby

Skip

Aha, now I get it - never underestimate my ability to screw up terms. What the heck is the difference between a sunroof and a moonroof anyway? I always thought you could see through a sunroof, but not through a moonroof.

Here's what I have:





It is_not the same size as the OE targa tops that come on 944's, nor does it function the same way. It has two modes: tilt-up rear, or slide-back (up and over roof, not into roof). It is_not removable. I can't show any pictures of the two modes in action because the motor was removed when the rollbar was installed.

This sunroof/moonroof/whateverroof would only work on a hard top coupe.

Skip

Tabor

What would it take to replace my sunroof-roof with a non-sunroof roof?

Skip

How many roofs could a sunroof roof, if a sunroof could roof roof

Most that I've seen have used epoxy to fill in the gaps, filled/smoothed over an painted. Gut the insides, pull the cables and motor, and install a new headliner... viola... no sunroof coupe.

Welding is my only option because of racing regs. I suppose you could add the whole top clip - cut just below roof on a/b/c pillars. Problem would be finding a donor.

Skip